Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[Sophia]

Romans 11 is the crucial passage.
Salvation is total & comprehensive, physical & spiritual -- glorified bodies, New Earth, Davidic Kingdom, fulfillment of the covenants. Israel as a nation is to be saved prior to their millennial kingdom.

Ok... Will any in the nation of Israel not be saved? If so, what are the qualifications?
By "saved prior to their millennial kingdom" do you mean that the restoration taking place now is building this millennial kingdom?

The current restoration project is certainly building a kingdom, but it is not of Christ, and it will not last the 1000 years, but will be replaced/rebuilt when Christ comes: built by Christ and for Christ.

 

[Chopper]

Perhaps this will answer the issue?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rev 11 says where the great city is.

No, Revelation 11 speaks of one great city. Jerusalem has never been the great city of paganism. the great harlot of johns era would have been rome, who was the center of the harlot religion.

And yes, the Jews ARE cursed in this dispensation, as they are hardened by God. Is God cursed for cursing them?

The antichrist will turn against the Harlot, but will not overcome true Jerusalem, which is not of this world.

How can they be cursed when the bible specifically says there are no jew or greek. but one under God.

A non believing jew is no more cursed in this generation than a non believing gentile.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 11 is "a" crucial passage, but, alas, like so many others, you fail to understand what it actually says. If I can swing it, then I'm going to try and start a thread entitled "The Israel of God" some time soon in which I'll address Romans chapter 11 and a whole host of other similarly butchered passages.

romans 11 is ALL ISREAL.

it is not saved gentiles (I hope this is not what your trying to say) it is all who belong to the twelve tribles of isreal.

Those who were cut off in Pauls day
those who are blinded in part (yet their is always a remnant)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok... Will any in the nation of Israel not be saved? If so, what are the qualifications?
By "saved prior to their millennial kingdom" do you mean that the restoration taking place now is building this millennial kingdom?

The current restoration project is certainly building a kingdom, but it is not of Christ, and it will not last the 1000 years, but will be replaced/rebuilt when Christ comes: built by Christ and for Christ.

will the entire nation be saved.

yes.

How?

Like you and I are saved, by trust in the messiah, by repenting.

Why will the be restored? Lev 26.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If calling someone a heretic is not condemning someone. then I do not know what is.

I am not condemning you. I have never condemned you. this is not even a salvic issue. so I do not know what your going of the deep end for.

as for your many likes. that means nothing. Look at my reputation. Does that make me more knowledgeable? No. If we go off how many likes someone gets, we are in danger. and not looking to the right things.


Again, You can noy discuss the word if your going to call someone a heretic. Discussion is you showing your view. if you disagree, you just disagree, or discuss why, calling someone a heretic is condemning them.

THATS WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!




So it is just the remnant? it is not all Israel? Does not paul say in romans 11 that when the end comes ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED?

Now how can you say the woman is Israel (remnant or not) and then claim jerusalem is the harlot?

other than that I agree with everything else you said. Yes, the abomination of desolation has not yet occured. the final beast will commit that when he breaks the covenant made with the many.

And God will protect Israel. so ALL Isreal can be saved (as he has been doing since AD 70) which will anger Satan, who will go after the church.




lol. and? does that mean it is the temple stuff of that temple? Your adding alot to it. The merchants of the world are getting filthy rich on those things today as we speak. and that have been for the last 2000 years. why do you think they will mourn?



see there you go. Not trying to discuss. but making an ad hominem attack and judging things.

I thought you wanted to discuss the word?

news flash bud, I have been studying this topic for close to 30 years. I am not ignorant of what revelation teaches. we may not agree, but that does nto mean I am ignorant

Me and you don't always see eye to eye, but I would have to agree with you here.
As he keeps wanting to place Jerusalem as Babylon, and if we don't agree with him and point out the parts that don't fit. He calls us hypocrites, speaking heresy, and lies along with other names. The bible says until the end time all will be assumptions by people, which I even pointed out in Daniel how he was told to seal up his book tell the end times. Daniel was told and shown exactly what every thing stood for, but was told not to reveal that to us tell the end time. And it even states people will go to and fro making these assumptions, but until knowledge increases to its fullest then knowing for sure will not be until He reveals it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps this will answer the issue?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.

this is jerusalem.

no place does it say this is the mother of harlots.

so no it does not answer the question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Me and you don't always see eye to eye, but I would have to agree with you here.
As he keeps wanting to place Jerusalem as Babylon, and if we don't agree with him and point out the parts that don't fit. He calls us hypocrites, speaking heresy, and lies along with other names. The bible says until the end time all will be assumptions by people, which I even pointed out in Daniel how he was told to seal up his book tell the end times. Daniel was told and shown exactly what every thing stood for, but was told not to reveal that to us tell the end time. And it even states people will go to and fro making these assumptions, but until knowledge increases to its fullest then knowing for sure will not be until He reveals it.

this is not even a salvic issue, no one should be condemning or judging anyone on this topic.

some people let their pride gets in the way though.

 

[Sophia]

No, Revelation 11 speaks of one great city. Jerusalem has never been the great city of paganism. the great harlot of johns era would have been rome, who was the center of the harlot religion.



How can they be cursed when the bible specifically says there are no jew or greek. but one under God.

A non believing jew is no more cursed in this generation than a non believing gentile.

Rev 11 says the great city is where Christ was crucified. Can't get any clearer. There is no room for any other interpretation of such a clear phrase. If they reject the Son, they reject the Father. Rejecting the One True God to serve another god is called paganism. Jerusalem is the queen of such, as she was once the house of God, but now is home to a false god: Judaism.

They are hardened. Their curse is "more" because they have the Word of God, and yet reject the Word made flesh.
We are called to love them, and evangelize them, for the sake of the faith of their forefathers, but with knowledge that they are enemies of the Gospel.

 

[Hizikyah]

Perhaps this will answer the issue?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.

for that great city "controls" the puppets aka daughters of the harlot....

Oh what a tangled web...

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Right here you have used Revelation 17:6 and chapter 18 to call Jerusalem as being Babylon, so go and say I am bearing false witness again. You have done exactly what I said using these verses to call Jerusalem, Babylon. And there is a difference between cursing and warning somebody as John was doing because they would not listen. Cursing the nation is saying that they are evil and will follow the antichrist, which the bible says no such thing. The antichrist comes up against Jerusalem, and never prevails at destroying it. However the bible does say the antichrist destroys Babylon.

Here's what you originally said and more than once:

Well I am sorry but you and one other I seen on here have said the scriptures say that the bible says Babylon is the place where Jesus was crucified, and the only scripture given to support this ideal of yours was Revelation 17:6. So by me saying that the martyr's of Jesus is not saying where Jesus was crucified, as it is saying all that die in His name is not bearing false witness my friend. To bare false witnesses means you claim something the person never said or did as if they did it. You did say the bible refers to the place where Jesus was crucified, and gave Revelation 17:6 for that. I pointed out how that was not the case.

I bold-faced your LIE. Let's see if you can tell it again...

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Me and you don't always see eye to eye, but I would have to agree with you here.
As he keeps wanting to place Jerusalem as Babylon, and if we don't agree with him and point out the parts that don't fit. He calls us hypocrites, speaking heresy, and lies along with other names. The bible says until the end time all will be assumptions by people, which I even pointed out in Daniel how he was told to seal up his book tell the end times. Daniel was told and shown exactly what every thing stood for, but was told not to reveal that to us tell the end time. And it even states people will go to and fro making these assumptions, but until knowledge increases to its fullest then knowing for sure will not be until He reveals it.

The only parts that you've pointed out which "don't fit" are your own heresies. I've scripturally and factually answered every objection which you've raised thus far, but you seem unable to hear or see.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

some people let their pride gets in the way though.

Oh, the irony!

 

[Sophia]

The remnant is not the whole.
Between those in Christ, there is no Jew or Greek,
but outside of Christ, there is the hardened and the ignorant.

 

[Hizikyah]

Perhaps this will answer the issue?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.

Rev 11 says the great city is where Christ was crucified. Can't get any clearer. There is no room for any other interpretation of such a clear phrase. If they reject the Son, they reject the Father. Rejecting the One True God to serve another god is called paganism. Jerusalem is the queen of such, as she was once the house of God, but now is home to a false god: Judaism.

They are hardened. Their curse is "more" because they have the Word of God, and yet reject the Word made flesh.
We are called to love them, and evangelize them, for the sake of the faith of their forefathers, but with knowledge that they are enemies of the Gospel.

for that great city "controls" the puppets aka daughters of the harlot....

Oh what a tangled web...

SAME RELIGION....

DIFFERENT COLORED yamaka...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rev 11 says the great city is where Christ was crucified. Can't get any clearer. There is no room for any other interpretation of such a clear phrase. If they reject the Son, they reject the Father. Rejecting the One True God to serve another god is called paganism. Jerusalem is the queen of such, as she was once the house of God, but now is home to a false god: Judaism.

Romans 11 is jerusalem.

But no where does it say it is the city where the harlot is.

Again, The great city of harlotry in Johns day (when revelation was written) was Rome, Not jerusalem.

Sorry, but your wrong.

Daniel called the city of jerusalem the city of God. even when it was in its destroyed state, because of her sin, "BABYLON the first great harlot Destroyed jerusalem and made it desolate)

Jerusalem today lies desolate, according to the word of God. how can that which is desolate be made desolate again?

They are hardened. Their curse is "more" because they have the Word of God, and yet reject the Word made flesh.
We are called to love them, and evangelize them, for the sake of the faith of their forefathers, but with knowledge that they are enemies of the Gospel.

that has nothing to do with what city is the great harlot which the great kings sit on.

jerusalem has no influence on the kings of the world today, and has not in over 2000 year (even before that) so jerusalem does not fit the description of the harlot.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

for that great city "controls" the puppets aka daughters of the harlot....

Oh what a tangled web...

Jerusalem controls this today? Since when?

Rome has more control over the kings of the world than Jerusalem does. it has always been the center of paganism, from the time of Christ till today.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, the irony!

Your the only one I see condemning others here my friend. (actually much earlier there were others who also did this, they are no longer here any more)

So yes, how ironic. If the shoe fits. where it.

I have not condemned you. and will never condemn you or call you a heritec for your views on this matter, if you do not agree with me, thats fine. we will all know the truth one day,

 

[kennethcadwell]

Here's what you originally said and more than once:


I bold-faced your LIE. Let's see if you can tell it again...

The only parts that you've pointed out which "don't fit" are your own heresies. I've scripturally and factually answered every objection which you've raised thus far, but you seem unable to hear or see.

In your own opinion have you pointed things out, this does not make it true or fact.
Plus I showed how you did use that scripture to make your point, as I did not address chapter 18 though that you brought up. So it is not a lie when both parts were not addressed by me, but now I addressed the second part of chapter 18 that once again does not put Jerusalem as Babylon.

Jerusalem is still standing when the Lord returns, and that is were He rules for His 1,000 year millennial reign.

Revelation 17:16 shows the antichrist and the 10 nations that follow him destroy the Babylon. Then the Lord destroys them, but Jerusalem still stands...............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The remnant is not the whole.
Between those in Christ, there is no Jew or Greek,
but outside of Christ, there is the hardened and the ignorant.

that goes for all people. not just Isreal. blind gentiles are just as lost.

and we were told Israel would be blinded in part. until the times of the gentile has come to an end. so it should not suprise anyone that most of Israel today is in sin, it was prophesied.

But that does not take away from the fact God said one day, their blindness will be removed, they will repent, and ALL israel will be saved.