Music in Church?

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SeaBass said:
...and you continue to lose the argument by running back to the OT law to justify the use of IM. Read the Galatian epistle at how Paul condemned some in Galatia for returning to the OT law thinking it could justify them.
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Another stretch of ignorance.....they were running back to the O.T. law and trying to push circumcision so as to be justified...this had nothing at all to do with PSALMS and singing and praising GOD....DUDE I cannot believe that you actually believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth in an attempt to justify your erroneous stance.....!
 
ISeeYou said:
The NT says, sing the psalms, and its the psalms which are for our instruction which instruct us to various instruments, like a harp or an instrument of ten strings or whichever.

The NT directs me to know Jesus Christ is Melchizedek by the Psalms also

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

They borrowed from here, to expound the same
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The NT says sing psalms, NOT play psalms.

Again, if I do not have to do what Christ's NT says about singing, then I do not have to do ANYTHING Chirst's NT says, right??
 
SeaBass said:
...and you continue to lose the argument by running back to the OT law to justify the use of IM. Read the Galatian epistle at how Paul condemned some in Galatia for returning to the OT law thinking it could justify them.
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I dont think Im losing anything, your own reasoning is unsound.

I wont argue with you any further over your own conscience as it relates to touching instruments, thats between you and God, and there is only so many posts to be bothered with and this one is just another endless tail chaser with another nut.
 
ISeeYou said:
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

It doesnt mean you stop eating meat or drinking, or taking a bath or singing a psalm with an instrument
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Heb 9:10 is speaking about CARNAL WORSHIP under the OT law. Playing IM would be part of that CARNAL worship of the OT law.
 
SeaBass said:
The NT says sing psalms, NOT play psalms.

Again, if I do not have to do what Christ's NT says about singing, then I do not have to do ANYTHING Chirst's NT says, right??
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You shouldnt be teaching, sing psalms that teach sinful ways to sing to the Lord with (such as a harp or an instrument of ten strings)

How weird, Bye!
 
posthuman said:
by all means, sing.
:)

but neither the NT nor OT commands the Christian to help little old ladies across the street - so whatcha gonna do when my feeble and near-sighted oma comes to a busy intersection?

in the old testament it's said that bestiality is abominable, but that's not specifically reiterated in the gospels or epistles. what do you say, having intercourse with dogs is cool now?

in the old testament it's taught that we should hide God's word in our hearts, and bind them around our neck -- but as far as i know none of the apostles thought it necessary to repeat that in writing as a command for us. so do i sin by memorizing scripture?

this COC argument against the literal word of God, it's laughable man. and sad.
please try to think about this objectively:

  • no one is commanding you or ever has commanded you to play a lute for God.
  • "you may praise God with a guitar if the spirit leads you to" is not a command; it's freedom in Christ. "you must not play a guitar for God" is a command.
  • the scriptures nowhere condemn instrumental music in worship.
  • the proscription against instrumental music comes from human teaching, not scripture.
  • doing the things contained in the law out of free will, not as though by command, is not placing yourself under the law. if it were, we would sin whenever we don't covet, lie or steal.
  • it's the weaker faith that only allows you to eat vegetables, not the stronger faith.
  • the Psalms are inspired by the Holy Spirit. they are still true and have not become lies.
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I do sing for that is what God commanded. But I will not play and fall from grace by trying to run back to the OT law to justify playing IM.


Must one do as God prescribed or can man just ignore God and do as he pleases?
 
SeaBass said:
Add anything to the singing to change the command...like playing??
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Why is it an evil thing to worship the Lord with musical instruments? This thread has been going on over a month and nothing that I have read has proved biblically that the use of musical instruments in song and praise in the worship of the Lord is an inherently evil practice. This line of reasoning is patently false and is nonsense.
 
posthuman said:


we are NOT GIVING A LAW
NO ONE is commanding anyone to play harps
it's the false COC teaching that is giving a human law, "thou shalt not do," which is plainly contrary to what the scripture literally says is good to do.

taking away the law of ordinances does not mean that doing the things the law said are good has become sinful!!
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GOD COMMANDED singing. Are you obeying this command or do you change it, ignore it, do as YOU please?

Rom 7:1-6 Paul said it is SINFUL, spiritual adultery for a Christian married to Christ and also tries to keep the law of Moses also. It wouols be like a woman trying to keep two husbands at the same time.
 
Holy... carp, is this thread still going?

Saaaaaay... what about soundtracks? See, I make soundtracks at home in my computer. I can "play" virtual instruments through my computer and MIDI keyboard. Drums, bass line, background chords and a lead and you have a soundtrack. I use them at church to sing songs, so we won't have to have the (overworked) piano player learn new songs every time we want to sing one.

So whataya say? Would soundtracks be acceptable? It's not exactly a live instrument playing.
 
SeaBass said:
I do sing for that is what God commanded. But I will not play and fall from grace by trying to run back to the OT law to justify playing IM.


Must one do as God prescribed or can man just ignore God and do as he pleases?
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HAHAHHAHA that is so funny if it was not full of ignorance....fall from grace because an instrument is used.....? WOW.....Now I have heard it all!
 
tourist said:
Why is it an evil thing to worship the Lord with musical instruments? This thread has been going on over a month and nothing that I have read has proved biblically that the use of musical instruments in song and praise in the worship of the Lord is an inherently evil practice. This line of reasoning is patently false and is nonsense.
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Now he is teaching that you will fall form grace if you use an instrument to worship God with....takes the cake for sure.....blind ignorance for sure.......!
 
You know, from the point of view of a sound man (which I'm) churches with no instruments would be a LOT easier to run sound for. Wouldn't even need a sound board. Just one mic (field mic preferably) piped to an amp and speakers. Maybe an EQ to compensate for speaker quirks. For a solo, hand him the mic. For a group (an acappella group of course) set the mic on a stand in front of the group. No CD player, no 32 inputs, no custom mix to different monitor channels... yeah, that would be the life. :cool:

Man, my job is way too hard. Why can't our church go with this no instruments stuff?
 
dcontroversal said:
What you say means nothing as GOD INSPIRED THE PSALMS and I have biblically PROVEN your stance is based upon IGNORANCE....you do not know hat YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT and your continued addition to SCRIPTURE to try and prove your heretical stance is noted by ALL who have the ability to read. I suggest you humble yourself and admit your error and get right.....Your wrong dude..no matter how you slice it and dice it.......What part of ORDINANCE and PSALM not being the same word nor deed don't you understand....

What part of the following don't you understand...

OT--->used instruments to worship God with
IN HEAVEN--->instruments used to worship GOD

and to say it is not ok between the above two is stupid.....!

I am the LORD THY GOD I CHANGE NOT.....if it is and was good enough in the O.T. and good enough in HEAVEN it is good enough in N.T. worship and to argue this sets for plain ignorance and a rejection of the given truth......!
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Psalms is inspired but Christ took all the OT (including Psalms) out of the way making in inactive, ineffective.

Psa 66:13-15 inspired? Are you keeping it too as David?
 
SeaBass said:
Psalms is inspired but Christ took all the OT (including Psalms) out of the way making in inactive, ineffective.

Psa 66:13-15 inspired? Are you keeping it too as David?
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I suggest you get saved and then study a bit......NO WHERE does it say that the PSALMS were taken out of the way and NO WHERE does it say it is sin to use an instrument to worship God in song with.....at the end of the day you cannot admit error because to admit error is to admit that your COC doctrine is in error and if wrong about this...what else would you be wrong on.....like SALVATION, IMMERSION, what a church is, the practices of a true church etc.....Just one of many things you miss the mark on for sure.....!
 
Lynx said:
Holy... carp, is this thread still going?

Saaaaaay... what about soundtracks? See, I make soundtracks at home in my computer. I can "play" virtual instruments through my computer and MIDI keyboard. Drums, bass line, background chords and a lead and you have a soundtrack. I use them at church to sing songs, so we won't have to have the (overworked) piano player learn new songs every time we want to sing one.

So whataya say? Would soundtracks be acceptable? It's not exactly a live instrument playing.
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Perhaps if you toned down the drums and lose the tamborines it may be acceptable.

Drop your silver in my tambourine.
Help a poor man fill his pretty dream.
Give me pennies I'll take anything,
Now listen while I play.
My green tambourine.

Watch the jingle jangle start to shine.
Reflections of the music that is mine.
When you toss a coin you'll hear it sing.
Now listen while I play,
My green tambourine.

Drop a dime before I walk away.
Any song you want I'll gladly play.
Money feeds my music machine.
Now listen while I play,
My green tambourine.

"Forgive me father for I have sinned..."

I will do your penance while I do mine Lynx. Sort of like buy one-get one free.
 
dcontroversal said:
Another stretch of ignorance.....they were running back to the O.T. law and trying to push circumcision so as to be justified...this had nothing at all to do with PSALMS and singing and praising GOD....DUDE I cannot believe that you actually believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth in an attempt to justify your erroneous stance.....!
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There's no difference in running back to the OT to justify the practice of circumcision or the practice of playing IM.

Going back to the OT for ANY reason one is removing himself from Christ and the gospel Gal 1:6.7 and this is why Paul said it is sinful for the Christian to try and keep both the NT and OT laws at the same time. It's one or the other but not both at the same tiem and those that run back to the OT made their choice to leave Christ/gospel.

Again, Gal 5:3; James 2:10 those that go back to the OT law to justify the practice of playing IM have an obligation to kkpe ALL of it...no cherry-pick.

If a person plans on buying a car to drive on public roadways, is he obligated to keep all the laws of the road that apply to him or can he just cherry-pick out one and keep it while ignoring all the others?
 
SeaBass said:
Psalms is inspired but Christ took all the OT (including Psalms) out of the way making in inactive, ineffective.

Psa 66:13-15 inspired? Are you keeping it too as David?
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So your bible does not have Mathew 5:17-18? Think not that I (Jesus speaking) am come to destroy the law or the prophets I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you Till heaven and earth pass away one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

I do not think you understand the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
It's amazing how freely people question the salvation of others here. Not that I agree with the no-instruments stuff, but there is a right and a wrong way to disagree. Using insult as debate tactic is not the right way.

(And now that I have said this, someone will probably cast aspersions on my own salvation.) :-/
 
ISeeYou said:
I dont think Im losing anything, your own reasoning is unsound.

I wont argue with you any further over your own conscience as it relates to touching instruments, thats between you and God, and there is only so many posts to be bothered with and this one is just another endless tail chaser with another nut.
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By going back to the OT law to jsutify the use of IM, you're:

1) ignoring that Christ took that ot law out of the way making it inactive, ineffective and REPLACED it with His NT law that commands singing.

2) ignoring it is sinful for one to try and keep Christ's NT and Moses OT law at the same time.

3) ignoring one that goes back to the OT to justify some practice is obligated to keep the WHOLE law else be a sinner guilty of that law.
 
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