Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[kennethcadwell]

Rather, it's amazing how you can be a HERETIC without the least bit of fear when God's Word says that HERETICS will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Btw, was there something wrong with GOD'S CHARACTER when HE forbid you from being a prophecy teacher?

You're teaching HERESY...and thanks for finally admitting that you're a disciple of Walid Shoebat (as if I'm surprised):

The Palestinian 'terrorist' turned Zionist - Features - Jerusalem Post

Still making baseless false allegations on another, which shows a clear violation of do not bare false witness on others. You call me and others heretics just because we don't believe what you believe that Jerusalem is Babylon. Sorry but that does not make one a heretic, as in teaching heresy. Teaching heresy would be teaching a replacement theology as placing the Jews as not still God's people, and other ways to heaven besides through Lord Jesus.
Heresy is not teaching one's personally interpretation of a prophecy, else wise you would be just as guilty of heresy. Plus the other thing is like I have said all along, the bible says that the Jews will come to see the Lord Jesus as their Messiah. This comes into debate from here as some say before He comes back, and others say when He comes back. That and the Lord can not rule from an area that has been completely destroyed, as it shows in the bible that He will rule from the temple mount during the millennial. Can not happen if the temple and temple mount destroyed.
Plus again Jerusalem is not a major import and export city for merchants, and as for the things that go into the temple they have already made and prepared them and are sitting in storage. They are just waiting for the temple to be rebuilt.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Still making baseless false allegations on another, which shows a clear violation of do not bare false witness on others.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...me-lost-not-go-heaven-osas-3.html#post1858167

I myself always wanted to be a prophecy teacher, but the Holy Spirit pretty much told me no and kept leading me to the warnings the bible gives to believers about sin being still deceptive in our lives.

That's YOUR OWN TESTIMONY from only 5 days ago. What have you been doing since? Well, "teaching prophecy", of course, in direct disobedience to what the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, told you not to do. Perhaps the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, bore false witness, too? As I said before, if you won't listen to God, then...

 

[PlainWord]

I don't think that "MYSTERY BABYLON" is Jerusalem. I know that "MYSTERY BABYLON" is Jerusalem and I've already documented why.

As far as your "help" is concerned, "help" yourself. Better still, cry out to God and He'll help you to see how miserably wrong you are.

Funny. Everything about MECCA fits and very little about Jerusalem fits.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her..

The Kings of the earth (most of whom are Arab) will weep if MECCA is destroyed. They would delight if Jerusalem was destroyed. "Committed fornication" is a term used for worship of idols and false religions. The Jews worship and believe in the correct God and Creator. While most don't acknowledge Christ, they certainly don't worship false Allah or false prophet Muhammad.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore:

World trade with Jerusalem and Israel is negligible. World trade with Saudi Arabia is HUGE.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

Judaism was responsible for the death of some prophets of the OT and of course some in the NT such as Christ and Stephen, etc. However, relative to the end times, Judaism is not likely to be slaughtering Christians and true Saints. ISLAM on the other hand would love to kill as many Christians and Jews as they can find.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.

The method of destruction appears to be nuclear. We know Jerusalem is still standing and inhabited when the Lord returns. Clearly, Jerusalem will not become desolate.

“Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Not found anymore? Jerusalem is found throughout.

for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

Judiasm has not deceived the "nations" who are key in the end times, ISLAM has deceived all the Arab nations.

The biggest reason the Mystery Babylon doesn't fit Jerusalem is below.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The above is the same as below.

13 Then Istood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

Mystery Babylon as a "WOMAN" or "HARLOT" is riding the BEAST. This means the BEAST which is a group of nations is being ridden by a religion. There are no group of nations riding Judaism. There is only one nation being ridden by Judaism and nowhere do we see any other groups of nations turning to Judaism prior to the return of Christ. However, we have plenty of Muslim nations following ISLAM.

The Lion, Leopard and Bear nations are universally seen as modern day Syria, Iraq and Iran. One would need their head examined to think these countries are going to turn Jewish prior to the return of Christ. ISLAM is the ONLY religion that fits and MECCA is the only city of all the religious cities to be located in the desert/wilderness which is where John was taken to see the Scarlet Woman/Harlot. This is the same wilderness the Children of Israel wandered around in for a good part of their 40 years after leaving Egypt.

You have the right to be wrong my friend, but if you give up that right maybe you can see the truth. If you still think Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon I have several bridges for sale and some land in Florida.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

If you still think Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon I have several bridges for sale and some land in Florida.

Again, I don't think that Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON", I know that she is and I'll eventually address the rest of your post to further prove as much. Right now, I'm busy with some other threads and some other things in general. Lord willing, I'll get back here (this thread) some time over the weekend, though...

 

[kennethcadwell]

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...me-lost-not-go-heaven-osas-3.html#post1858167


That's YOUR OWN TESTIMONY from only 5 days ago. What have you been doing since? Well, "teaching prophecy", of course, in direct disobedience to what the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, told you not to do. Perhaps the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, bore false witness, too? As I said before, if you won't listen to God, then...

First all I never said He forbid me to be a prophecy teacher as you state, as I said He pretty much told me not to go that route at that time. For He wanted me to be more of a warning teacher, as in to give the same warnings to believers that Paul gave. Still the false allegation that I said you made had nothing to do with that, as it had to do with the fact of calling others heretic's just because they do not believe the same as you in calling Jerusalem...Babylon. Just because you feel that way does not make it fact, so to call others heretics for not believing that is false allegations.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

First all I never said He forbid me to be a prophecy teacher as you state, as I said He pretty much told me not to go that route at that time. For He wanted me to be more of a warning teacher, as in to give the same warnings to believers that Paul gave. Still the false allegation that I said you made had nothing to do with that, as it had to do with the fact of calling others heretic's just because they do not believe the same as you in calling Jerusalem...Babylon. Just because you feel that way does not make it fact, so to call others heretics for not believing that is false allegations.

This isn't really about you and me, Kenneth. If the things which either of us are saying are indeed true, then one of us is, in fact, teaching heresy.

Good night.

 

[PlainWord]

Again, I don't think that Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON", I know that she is and I'll eventually address the rest of your post to further prove as much. Right now, I'm busy with some other threads and some other things in general. Lord willing, I'll get back here (this thread) some time over the weekend, though...

Take your time. If you wait long enough you will see MECCA nuked.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Take your time. If you wait long enough you will see MECCA nuked.

Only in your dreams.

Good night.

 

[PlainWord]

First all I never said He forbid me to be a prophecy teacher as you state, as I said He pretty much told me not to go that route at that time. For He wanted me to be more of a warning teacher, as in to give the same warnings to believers that Paul gave. Still the false allegation that I said you made had nothing to do with that, as it had to do with the fact of calling others heretic's just because they do not believe the same as you in calling Jerusalem...Babylon. Just because you feel that way does not make it fact, so to call others heretics for not believing that is false allegations.

Well stated Kenneth. Many think NYC or America is Babylon too. Some think Rome, but they are wrong too. MECCA is so obviously the City Babylon and ISLAM is so obviously the world's false religion right down to the music and image worship, so obvious a child could see it. But not everyone can discern, in fact few can.

 

[PlainWord]

Only in your dreams.

Good night.

Yes my friend good night. When you wake up, maybe Google "Saudi fence." You will find that they are building a fence along their entire northern boarder to keep ISIS out. They are terrified of an attack by radical ISLAM. After you read about this, read Daniel 11 and Jeremiah 50. Enjoy.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This isn't really about you and me, Kenneth. If the things which either of us are saying are indeed true, then one of us is, in fact, teaching heresy.

Good night.

It is not heresy when it is an assumption or guess as to what we think it is.
Which is all prophecy teaching is about until the prophecy takes place and is revealed. Look at how many prophecy teachers in the past have said things that never came true to what they thought it was. This does not make them heretics, as they were just guessing from what they saw. I don't know one major prophecy teacher throughout history that I looked into in studies that has ever said that Babylon is Jerusalem.
There are many characteristics that do not fit my friend.........

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well stated Kenneth. Many think NYC or America is Babylon too. Some think Rome, but they are wrong too. MECCA is so obviously the City Babylon and ISLAM is so obviously the world's false religion right down to the music and image worship, so obvious a child could see it. But not everyone can discern, in fact few can.

Yes witch is why I posted the video awhile back that shows how Saudi Arabia and Mecca fit the bill, and I will post it again but I doubt they will even watch it again...........

[video=youtube;uY20IFaWlsQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ[/video]

 

[Reborn]

What's wild to me....is your both are right ...to a degree....in my opinion.

They both tie in when it comes to The Great Babylon.
It's like......you both.......almost.........?
Putting the pieces together, one will see that they are both are mentioned right there in Rev 17 (with Rev 13 giving us the definition)
....they really are.
Mecca...not so much....but?
Jerusalem..not alone, there is still a beast that carries her.

It really comes down to opinion fellas.
Bet you never saw this entering in as a possibility?
Sorry, JITC, I love the advice you gave me......but I agree that Islam is a huge part of what is about to go down...Soon.

 

[Atwood]

Saudi Arabia the Muslim home to radical Islam does fit, and the capital city there Mecca ( Means mother ). Which is also a major import and export sea port for merchants.

Now in a list of major sea ports for merchants, where would Saudi Arabia stand? Nowhere. For Saudi Arabia is not a sea port at all, but a nation. Is it not mostly a huge dump of sand??? There are many sea ports; thus that is not a very good criterion to id the woman of Rev 17-18. That woman is a city and the city reigning over the world, a city on 7 hills. (No city was ever on 7 mountains to my knowledge -- translate it hills). Hello rocket scientists! What city ruled when John wrote & was on 7 hills?

Plus Revelation 9 speaks of a war that will care about 2.3 billion people ( 1/3 of the population ), and it says it starts from the Euphrates river.

Where does Rev 9 say that a war starts from the Euphrates; where does Rev 9 speak of the start of a war?

BTW, Mecca is a one hour drive of 87 kilometers from the sea, not a sea port

 

[Atwood]

And to teach salvation without works is dead...

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I keep reading such stuff as the above, which is a straw man. The point is not about works following salvation, but preceding salvation as its cause. I have never read any Christian here posting that salvation did not result in good works. So why keep on posting as if someone had taken that position here?

All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

Faith > Salvation > Good works, yes.

Not Good Works > Salvation (heresy, anathema).

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works! (read Eph 1).

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Sorry, JITC, I love the advice you gave me......but I agree that Islam is a huge part of what is about to go down...Soon.

Hi, Reborn.

There's no need for you to be sorry and I NEVER said or even implied that Islam isn't a part (huge or otherwise) of what is about to go down (although the things spoken of in Revelation might not find their final fulfillments in our lifetimes). For example, when we read of the ten kings which will give their power to the beast, these ten kings could very easily include Islamic nations and they more than likely will. Rather, what I've emphatically stated over and over and over again is that "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is a specific city (and it is) and that that specific city is Jerusalem.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

It is not heresy when it is an assumption or guess as to what we think it is.
Which is all prophecy teaching is about until the prophecy takes place and is revealed. Look at how many prophecy teachers in the past have said things that never came true to what they thought it was. This does not make them heretics, as they were just guessing from what they saw. I don't know one major prophecy teacher throughout history that I looked into in studies that has ever said that Babylon is Jerusalem.

Prophecy is not supposed to be taught via either "assumptions" or "guesswork", Kenneth. It's supposed to be taught via the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the One Whom Jesus said would "show us things to come" (John 16:13). Out of curiosity, when God looks down from heaven upon all of these false "assumptions" and "guesses" which have occurred throughout history, what do you suppose is His reaction to the same? Is He just sitting there in heaven and saying, "Ah, no big deal...boys will be boys" or something along those lines? If you think that He is, then I'll tell you plainly that you and I don't have the same God. The God Whom I serve isn't fond of "false prophets" who lead the people astray, Kenneth, and there's plenty of documentation of the same in the Bible. I'd also suggest that you do a word study on what "heresy" is. Any "factions" or "sects" who rise up in unison, even as some have done here, and teach error and lead the people astray...well, like I said, just do a word study. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, Kenneth, because she did not know (although she should have BASED UPON PROPHECY AND ITS PROPER UNDERSTANDING) the things which pertained to her even in regard to Christ's first coming...

Luke chapter 19

[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
[43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
[44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

...and certainly now in relation to Christ's second coming. Personally, I wouldn't want to be found amongst those who have failed to warn JERUSALEM of the things which will most certainly come upon her, but, quite frankly, some of you will apparently be numbered amongst the same.

There are many characteristics that do not fit my friend.........

So you keep on insisting, but you've yet to cite a single one. Instead, you've repeatedly "twisted" passages of scripture and sought to make them say things which they never say. You know, like how "MYSTERY BABYLON" allegedly needs to be "a major seaport city"...even though THE BIBLE says no such thing. Again, how "MYSTERY BABYLON" has to allegedly be utterly destroyed...even though THE BIBLE says that she "is fallen" and describes exactly what that means elsewhere in scripture as I've already documented and as you refuse to hear.

Anyhow, I can assure you that I'm more than familiar with Walid Shoebat's teachings, so you never need to post a video on my behalf. I actually agree with him in relation to the involvement of certain Islamic nations concerning certain prophesied end time events, but when it comes to the identity of "MYSTERY BABYLON" he doesn't know what he's talking about at all.

Anyhow, I think that we've beaten this particular dead horse enough times already. I might make one more post about another identifier in relation to the identity of "MYSTERY BABYLON" some time this weekend, but I'm not going to keep on rehashing the things which have already been discussed here with you or anybody else.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I don't know one major prophecy teacher throughout history that I looked into in studies that has ever said that Babylon is Jerusalem.

I forgot to address this earlier. Just Google "Mystery Babylon is Jerusalem" and you'll find that there is no shortage of folks who rightly identify "Mystery Babylon" as JERUSALEM.

 

[PlainWord]

Yes witch is why I posted the video awhile back that shows how Saudi Arabia and Mecca fit the bill, and I will post it again but I doubt they will even watch it again...........

[video=youtube;uY20IFaWlsQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ[/video]

This video is worth more than 1,000 hours of Bible study. I highly recommend it too.

 

[PlainWord]

Saudi Arabia the Muslim home to radical Islam does fit, and the capital city there Mecca ( Means mother ). Which is also a major import and export sea port for merchants.

Now in a list of major sea ports for merchants, where would Saudi Arabia stand? Nowhere. For Saudi Arabia is not a sea port at all, but a nation. Is it not mostly a huge dump of sand??? There are many sea ports; thus that is not a very good criterion to id the woman of Rev 17-18. That woman is a city and the city reigning over the world, a city on 7 hills. (No city was ever on 7 mountains to my knowledge -- translate it hills). Hello rocket scientists! What city ruled when John wrote & was on 7 hills?



Where does Rev 9 say that a war starts from the Euphrates; where does Rev 9 speak of the start of a war?

BTW, Mecca is a one hour drive of 87 kilometers from the sea, not a sea port

There is no reference to a sea port. The reference is to merchants at sea who see Babylon up in smoke. The ships who witness this are in the Red Sea. MECCA sits in the desert (wilderness) on 7 hills. It sits above the Red Sea. In one hour MECCA is destroyed and they saw the SMOKE of her burning. This smoke, I believe, is a mushroom cloud.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’

Only a nuke fits as something that can be seen from afar and destroys and leaves desolate in one hour.

‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’

Note it is "all who had ships on the sea" who became rich by her wealth. Those who had oil tankers are the world's oil companies. They became rich.

The city that reigns over the Muslim world is MECCA. Muslims from everywhere must bow down, face MECCA and pray FIVE TIMES A DAY. Their entire lives are consumed by their false religion. John wasn't taken to a city of his day, he was taken into the future, but more specifically, he was taken to the wilderness to see the HARLOT. MECCA is the only religious city located in the wilderness/desert. This is the same wilderness that Moses and the Children of Israel wandered in. It is also the same wilderness where Mt. Sinai and the Golden Calf was and where the Commandments of God were given.

John was taken here to the desert (wilderness). He saw the city on 7 hills.