Is it wrong to want equality in a marriage?

[Sirk]

Do you know how mortifying it is to admit the man you love....the man you built your life around......
Does this to you.....do you really think it is always beatings and cruelty........at times it is the most exciting and loving.....kindness ....a lot of generosity...the best love you ever known......then the tide changes.....out of nowhere .....for no reason......things turn ......by the time you realize it wasn't something you have done.....so you make excuses to buy time for the man you know returns to the kind loving man you thought he was.....its a cycle .....

oh I know. Men in my class when they realize how much of a victimizer they are... have had their wive/significant others tell them they would rather be hit than be told some of the horrible things they say. I'm fully aware and I know men who run both extremes of abuse and all points in between.

 

[Sirk]

Do you know how mortifying it is to admit the man you love....the man you built your life around......
Does this to you.....do you really think it is always beatings and cruelty........at times it is the most exciting and loving.....kindness ....a lot of generosity...the best love you ever known......then the tide changes.....out of nowhere .....for no reason......things turn ......by the time you realize it wasn't something you have done.....so you make excuses to buy time for the man you know returns to the kind loving man you thought he was.....its a cycle .....

youre absolutely right. It's call the abuse cycle. It's very simple. It begins in the tension building stage. This where people build the pressure in their volcano. The next stage is when she blows. This is when the victimization occurs. After this runs its course the calming respite stage happens and then goes right back into the tension building stage. As the cycle is repeated over time it cycles faster and becomes more intense.

 

[ChandlerFan]

Again you guys are talking about an extreme of abuse. I'm talking in the context of normal everyday life in normal everyday circumstances where abusr is a little more subtle.

Can you give an example? It seems to me that abuse isn't really the word for what you're talking about.

 

[Sirk]

Can you give an example? It seems to me that abuse isn't really the word for what you're talking about.

Telling someone they're fat is abuse. Lying to someone is abuse. Getting someone drunk for the purpose of having sex is abuse. Abuse is much more insidious than just hitting someone.

 

[Sirk]

When I have a little more time I will give sone examples as to the thinking process of someone who victimizes others.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The current data shows the problem may be different in many ways than you presently understand. Read this scholarly study by the uber-liberal University of New Hampshire published in a peer-reviewed industry journal which:

"summarizes results from more than 200 studies that have found gender symmetry in perpetration and in risk factors and motives for physical violence in martial and dating relationships.

It also summarizes research that has found that most partner violence is mutual and that self defense explains only a small percentage of partner violence by either men or
women.

The second part of the article documents seven methods that have been used to deny, conceal, and distort the evidence on gender symmetry.

The third part of the article suggests explanations for the denial of an overwhelming body of evidence by reputable scholars.

The concluding section argues that ignoring the overwhelming evidence of gender symmetry has crippled prevention and treatment programs. It suggests ways in which prevention and treatment efforts might be improved by changing ideologically based programs to programs based on the evidence from the past 30 years of research."

Study: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf

An uber-liberal University of British Columbia study found exactly the same results stating in their abstract:

"Results show that the gender disparity in injuries from domestic violence is less than originally portrayed by feminist theory. Studies are also reviewed indicating high levels of unilateral intimate violence by females to both males and females. Males appear to report their own victimization less than females do and to not view female violence against them as a crime.

Hence, they differentially under-report being victimized by partners on crime victim surveys. It is concluded that feminist theory is contradicted by these findings and that the call for bqualitativeQ studies by feminists is really a means of avoiding this conclusion. A case is made for a paradigm having developed amongst family violence activists and researchers that precludes the notion of female violence, trivializes injuries to males and maintains a monolithic view of a complex social problem."

Study: http://www.amen.ie/reports/28004.pdf

When I have a little more time I will give sone examples as to the thinking process of someone who victimizes others.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Even Wikipedia gets this right:

"...men fear that if they do report to the police, they will be assumed to be the aggressor, and placed under arrest.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP]

The 1985 U.S. National Family Violence Survey, carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 6,002 couples, found that when a woman called the police to report IPV, the man was ordered out of the house in 41.4% of cases.

However, when a man called, the woman was ordered out of the house in 0% of cases. When a woman called, the man was threatened with immediate arrest in 28.2% of cases; when a man called, the woman was threatened with arrest in 0% of cases. When a woman called, the man was threatened with arrest at a later date in 10.7% of cases; when a man called, the woman was threatened with arrest at a later date in 0% of cases. Whan a woman called, the man was arrested in 15.2% of cases; when a man called, the woman was arrested in 0% of cases. In fact, in 12.1% of cases when the man called, the man himself was arrested.[SUP][20]"[/SUP]

 

[Lynae]

When I have a little more time I will give sone examples as to the thinking process of someone who victimizes others.

New to the chat so forgive me if I jump in from the wrong angle. I don't think it's wrong to "want" equality in a marriage, but I'm wondering what sort of equality are you after that you don't feel you have?
The thread seemed to lean towards abuse....surely it's not wrong to want to not be abused.

I am curious if perhaps another word here could be "reciprocity". Rather than 'equality', I want reciprocity in my next marriage.

But going back to equality.... we are "joint heirs with Christ" and I see no distinguishable difference between men and women there.

A lot of people get tangled up on the "hierarchy"in a marriage relationship, and I do think God has laid out a hierarchy or chain of command... the man is the head of the house over the woman, (the children are under her) and Christ is head of the church, and over man, then God on top of that.... so in that way women are not "equal" to men.

But I'm not sure if that was the original issue or not. ; )

As far as the thinking process of someone who victimizes others: there are definite signs of abuse, whether physical or psychological; Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships

No one should live in fear of those they live with.

 

[Sirk]

New to the chat so forgive me if I jump in from the wrong angle. I don't think it's wrong to "want" equality in a marriage, but I'm wondering what sort of equality are you after that you don't feel you have?
The thread seemed to lean towards abuse....surely it's not wrong to want to not be abused.

I am curious if perhaps another word here could be "reciprocity". Rather than 'equality', I want reciprocity in my next marriage.

But going back to equality.... we are "joint heirs with Christ" and I see no distinguishable difference between men and women there.

A lot of people get tangled up on the "hierarchy"in a marriage relationship, and I do think God has laid out a hierarchy or chain of command... the man is the head of the house over the woman, (the children are under her) and Christ is head of the church, and over man, then God on top of that.... so in that way women are not "equal" to men.

But I'm not sure if that was the original issue or not. ; )

As far as the thinking process of someone who victimizes others: there are definite signs of abuse, whether physical or psychological; Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships

No one should live in fear of those they live with.

it went down the abuse path because of one persons aversion to the idea of biblical submission in marriage.

 

[LionEyes]

it went down the abuse path because of one persons aversion to the idea of biblical submission in marriage.

Seriously? I wasn't the one who brought up the topic of abuse. I'm done arguing about it. Let it go.

 

[LionEyes]

Whan a woman called, the man was arrested in 15.2% of cases; when a man called, the woman was arrested in 0% of cases. In fact, in 12.1% of cases when the man called, the man himself was arrested.[SUP][20]"[/SUP]

Indeed. The Courts (and society in general) need to take violence against men more seriously.

 

[jsr1221]

Indeed. The Courts (and society in general) need to take violence against men more seriously.

There's a stigma that men should be able to defend themselves. However, if they do in any way, the man would end up being arrested because it would be deemed he attacked the woman who assaulted him in the first place. I agree it needs to be taken much seriously, but in all honesty, I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[presidente]

Telling someone they're fat is abuse. Lying to someone is abuse. Getting someone drunk for the purpose of having sex is abuse. Abuse is much more insidious than just hitting someone.

And we also have people saying that it is okay to leave one's spouse over 'abuse.' Some people think of physical violence. And other people think of a long list of things.


Is compelling your spouse to watch LifeTime network abuse? What about WWF?

 

[Sirk]

And we also have people saying that it is okay to leave one's spouse over 'abuse.' Some people think of physical violence. And other people think of a long list of things.


Is compelling your spouse to watch LifeTime network abuse? What about WWF?

manipulating someone for the purpose of power and control over them is abuse. Don't be silly.

 

[LionEyes]

There's a stigma that men should be able to defend themselves. However, if they do in any way, the man would end up being arrested because it would be deemed he attacked the woman who assaulted him in the first place. I agree it needs to be taken much seriously, but in all honesty, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Agreed. I think awareness of domestic violence against men is growing in Europe (maybe?). I've seen some awareness campaign ads in the UK and Scotland.

And it's not only that people believe men should be able to defend themselves. If a man complains about being hurt by a woman, a lot of people joke about it. It's treated more like slap-stick comedy than a serious issue, because people believe that a man can't really be hurt.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The biggest problem is that when a man reports that a woman is engaging in criminal abuse against him, it's not treated in the same way that as when a woman reports that a man is engaging in criminal abuse against her.

In fact, the man is sometimes taken into custody and prosecuted for a crime though he's entirely innocent simply for calling the police. This happened to someone I know. The woman he was involved with went into a red zone rage on him because he felt his privacy was being violated in having to explain to her everywhere he went and as she was hammering on him with her fists he put up his hands to deflect the blows. Though no one was injured, she lied, and so it was deemed assault and he was arrested for it while she was released. Fortunately, due to witness testimony (he was very lucky a witness saw it and gave a statement), it was later mitigated in court and he has no criminal conviction from that incident. Needless to say, that relationship was over.

Of course, there are millions of stories going every which way in every possible direction so we look at the studies and see what they say. They have a lot to say. Some facts are what we already know to be true such as, on average, men inflict greater physical damage on women than women inflict on men when violence does occur. But we also see that the ratio of violence between men and women in relationships is mutual but that male perpetuators of violence are treated very differently than female perpetuators of violence.

Indeed. The Courts (and society in general) need to take violence against men more seriously.

 

[Sirk]

The biggest problem is that when a man reports that a woman is engaging in criminal abuse against him, it's not treated in the same way that as when a woman reports that a man is engaging in criminal abuse against her.

In fact, the man is sometimes taken into custody and prosecuted for a crime though he's entirely innocent simply for calling the police. This happened to someone I know. The woman he was involved with went into a red zone rage on him because he felt his privacy was being violated in having to explain to her everywhere he went and as she was hammering on him with her fists he put up his hands to deflect the blows. Though no one was injured, she lied, and so it was deemed assault and he was arrested for it while she was released. Fortunately, due to witness testimony (he was very lucky a witness saw it and gave a statement), it was later mitigated in court and he has no criminal conviction from that incident. Needless to say, that relationship was over.

Of course, there are millions of stories going every which way in every possible direction so we look at the studies and see what they say. They have a lot to say. Some facts are what we already know to be true such as, on average, men inflict greater physical damage on women than women inflict on men when violence does occur. But we also see that the ratio of violence between men and women in relationships is mutual but that male perpetuators of violence are treated very differently than female perpetuators of violence.

No offense but this sounds like the typical "I didn't do it" jailhouse mentality. The fact is that it takes two people to dance in a toxic relationship. I too know a man who accidentally knocked over his wife protecting himself......the difference between his and your scenario is that he recognized the role he was playing in that relationship and that he escalated the situations he found himself in with her...ie, He focused on her behavior instead of how her behavior made him feel....which only made her more angry and defensive. There is far more nuance at play in interpersonal conflict than statistics and pointing fingers. Emotions are a powerful force behind something going from bad to worse in the blink of an eye..... and peoples ignorance in dealing with their own, in assertive Godly ways, is why more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. I think saying that most people are emotionally disabled is a huge understatement.

 

[Kaycie]

There's an old saying that the man may be the head, but the wife is the neck and can persuade the head to turn anyway she wants it to. Lol

 

[presidente]

manipulating someone for the purpose of power and control over them is abuse. Don't be silly.

If 'manipulation' is though to have evil intent by definition, maybe. But if not, parents manipulate their kids to have power and control over them all the time. It's not abuse. It's normal parenting, getting them to go to bed. I'll turn off a light at night to get a three-year-old out of a room she shouldn't be in so I can watch her. There isn't anything evil about that.

If you are going to define abuse so loosely, then most abuse shouldn't be illegal as far as the state is concerned. If you have a spouse manipulating you into doing something horrible like watching Sackdown or LifeTime on cable TV, then the police shouldn't get involved.

 

[Sirk]

If 'manipulation' is though to have evil intent by definition, maybe.

Exactly....To get your way. And you're right...manipulating is pretty "normal" in parenting. I don't need to explain total depravity to you do I? And who said anything about "getting the police involved" when you are having an emotional hissy fit about a tv show. Sounds like you need to get another tv.