Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?
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J
Now that I can agree with...and I feel the Lord pointed out to me one time that the woman and the beast fought...when I ask Him about a certain things in regards to a conflict I had because I seen two evil forces .... thanks 
Revelation chapter 17
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Seeing how "the beast" turns on "the whore", how can "the beast" be the Papacy/the Vatican and "the whore" be the Roman Catholic church as so many people errantly teach? It's NONSENSE!
Again, "the beast" is the Papacy/the Vatican and the "woman" is JERUSALEM.
Will there be Islamic nations who "give their power to the beast"?
Personally, I'd be stunned if there weren't, but Mecca is NOT the "woman".
Well, I'm done for the night.
Good night, everybody...
W
Revelation 13:13
It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,
Revelation 13:4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
[/QUOTE Have you ever watched a space shuttle launch? that's a lot of fire coming out of the heavens. And who is able to make war with democracy with its military budget and advances exceeding any apon the earth?
It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,
Revelation 13:4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
M
Hold on ..now the USA is what the harlot or Babylon? Actually if you place the USA as the holder of what was the Roman Empire..it makes more sense than this Islam stuff...But knowing history the US has been a great force for good and freedom to spread the gospel ...which is the only true way man can attain godliness, and we have always defended Israel....so not sure about this theory either?
J
Actually, there are those who teach and believe that the USA is "the false prophet" spoken of in the book of Revelation and there's certainly a possibility that they're correct. We read:
Revelation chapter 13
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
For starters, when we read of "another beast" (vs. 11), we are, in fact, reading of "another kingdom" for a "beast" in Bible prophecy represents both a "king" and his "kingdom":
"These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." (Daniel 7:17)
Again:
"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." (Daniel 7:23)
Is the USA a "beast" or a "kingdom"?
One might technically argue that it's not because we don't literally have a "king" ruling/governing over us, but I personally believe that that is splitting hairs.
Furthermore, whoever this "beast" or "king/kingdom" is, he has "two horns" (vs. 11) and, again, in Bible prophecy, a "horn" is also representative of a "king":
"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." (Daniel 7:24)
Again:
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." (Revelation 17:12)
Could it rightly be said that the USA has "two horns" or that it is made up of "two kings"?
Again, there are those who would suggest that this refers to this country being founded via a breakaway from England (one "horn") and that now this is a nation with "two horns" (After all, we do have such places as "NEW England" here in this country) and there are others who would suggest that these "two horns" speak of our two governing parties, Republicans and Democrats. Although I personally find the second suggesttion to be a stretch of one's imagination, I do consider the possibility of the first suggestion, especially in the light of the other identifiers given for this "another beast".
Also, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, IT PROFESSES TO BE A CHRISTIAN NATION or it "has two horns LIKE A LAMB", but, in fact, IT IS SATANIC in that it truly "speaks as a dragon" (vs. 11).
Well, this identifier sounds EXACTLY LIKE THE USA to me. IOW, although this nation professes to be a Christian nation, in fact, it's anything but the same.
Additionally, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, it works in conjunction with "the first beast before him" (vs. 12) or in conjunction with the antichrist.
Again, seeing how I'm totally convinced from BOTH scripture and history (some past, some present) and in that order (IOW, I don't read headlines and then try to cram them into scripture to make them fit) that the antichrist is Papal Rome/the Vatican and that the "woman" is Jerusalem, I'm looking for "another beast" or "another kingdom" which works in conjunction with the antichrist or which works in conjunction with the Papacy/the Vatican to help the same to be established as the antichrist IN JERUSALEM. Is the USA doing the same? Well, yes, I fully believe that it is and I'll explain how in just a moment.
Further still, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, it "makes fire come down from heaven in the sight of men" (vs. 13).
We need to remember that the book of Revelation was written long before such things as fighter jets and bombers were in existence, so might John have been referring to the same? IOW, might some of these images that we've seen posted here of "fire coming down from heaven" actually have validity in regard to understanding this prophecy? Again, personally, I'm most certainly considering that they might. If they do have validity, then what one nation is repeatedly not only "making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men", but, more specifically, AGAINST ISRAEL'S ENEMIES? Again, personally, I'm greatly considering that the USA is truly working in conjunction with the antichrist (the Papacy/the Vatican) to help bring about Israel's Zionistic desires...desires which will ultimately lead to them embracing the antichrist PRIOR TO CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.
Here's another thing to consider...
Why is this "another beast" called "the false prophet"?
Well, in my musings, I'm thinking that a true New Testament prophet of the Lord wouldn't be "calling down fire from heaven", but rather PREACHING TO THE ENEMIES OF CHRIST THAT THEY MIGHT REPENT AND BE CONVERTED.
Which category does the USA fit into?
Friends, we (I'm talking about our government) fit into the first.
Then there's also that whole "mark of the beast" (vss. 16-18) thing and how that could very possibly be linked to mandatory microchip implants and the such and Obama has at least attempted to institute as much in relation to Obamacare (there's no need to debunk any theories for me...I've read the accounts and I know that it's not presently mandatory, but it very well may be in the not too distant future).
Anyhow, I just wanted to throw that out there to help you to recognize what some people, myself included, consider as possibilities...
Revelation chapter 13
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
For starters, when we read of "another beast" (vs. 11), we are, in fact, reading of "another kingdom" for a "beast" in Bible prophecy represents both a "king" and his "kingdom":
"These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." (Daniel 7:17)
Again:
"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." (Daniel 7:23)
Is the USA a "beast" or a "kingdom"?
One might technically argue that it's not because we don't literally have a "king" ruling/governing over us, but I personally believe that that is splitting hairs.
Furthermore, whoever this "beast" or "king/kingdom" is, he has "two horns" (vs. 11) and, again, in Bible prophecy, a "horn" is also representative of a "king":
"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." (Daniel 7:24)
Again:
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." (Revelation 17:12)
Could it rightly be said that the USA has "two horns" or that it is made up of "two kings"?
Again, there are those who would suggest that this refers to this country being founded via a breakaway from England (one "horn") and that now this is a nation with "two horns" (After all, we do have such places as "NEW England" here in this country) and there are others who would suggest that these "two horns" speak of our two governing parties, Republicans and Democrats. Although I personally find the second suggesttion to be a stretch of one's imagination, I do consider the possibility of the first suggestion, especially in the light of the other identifiers given for this "another beast".
Also, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, IT PROFESSES TO BE A CHRISTIAN NATION or it "has two horns LIKE A LAMB", but, in fact, IT IS SATANIC in that it truly "speaks as a dragon" (vs. 11).
Well, this identifier sounds EXACTLY LIKE THE USA to me. IOW, although this nation professes to be a Christian nation, in fact, it's anything but the same.
Additionally, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, it works in conjunction with "the first beast before him" (vs. 12) or in conjunction with the antichrist.
Again, seeing how I'm totally convinced from BOTH scripture and history (some past, some present) and in that order (IOW, I don't read headlines and then try to cram them into scripture to make them fit) that the antichrist is Papal Rome/the Vatican and that the "woman" is Jerusalem, I'm looking for "another beast" or "another kingdom" which works in conjunction with the antichrist or which works in conjunction with the Papacy/the Vatican to help the same to be established as the antichrist IN JERUSALEM. Is the USA doing the same? Well, yes, I fully believe that it is and I'll explain how in just a moment.
Further still, whoever this "another beast" or "another kingdom" is, it "makes fire come down from heaven in the sight of men" (vs. 13).
We need to remember that the book of Revelation was written long before such things as fighter jets and bombers were in existence, so might John have been referring to the same? IOW, might some of these images that we've seen posted here of "fire coming down from heaven" actually have validity in regard to understanding this prophecy? Again, personally, I'm most certainly considering that they might. If they do have validity, then what one nation is repeatedly not only "making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men", but, more specifically, AGAINST ISRAEL'S ENEMIES? Again, personally, I'm greatly considering that the USA is truly working in conjunction with the antichrist (the Papacy/the Vatican) to help bring about Israel's Zionistic desires...desires which will ultimately lead to them embracing the antichrist PRIOR TO CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.
Here's another thing to consider...
Why is this "another beast" called "the false prophet"?
Well, in my musings, I'm thinking that a true New Testament prophet of the Lord wouldn't be "calling down fire from heaven", but rather PREACHING TO THE ENEMIES OF CHRIST THAT THEY MIGHT REPENT AND BE CONVERTED.
Which category does the USA fit into?
Friends, we (I'm talking about our government) fit into the first.
Then there's also that whole "mark of the beast" (vss. 16-18) thing and how that could very possibly be linked to mandatory microchip implants and the such and Obama has at least attempted to institute as much in relation to Obamacare (there's no need to debunk any theories for me...I've read the accounts and I know that it's not presently mandatory, but it very well may be in the not too distant future).
Anyhow, I just wanted to throw that out there to help you to recognize what some people, myself included, consider as possibilities...
K
Without the saints there is no war. All biblical prophecy centers around the war between truth and error, and thus the saints and the wicked. If or when the saints are gone, it is over.
the United States has already been marginalized, you just do not know or perceive it because you have chosen deception over truth. This once Protestant nation is now largely run by Rome. Thus are we all the more increasingly headed towards socialistic globalism at the hands of the ever increasing number of Catholic politicians who run this nation. All of whom have been instructed by the Vatican to bring about Roman Catholic social doctrine and teaching through legislation in this country and abroad. They represent the single largest block of power within our federal government, and have the cooperation of deceived Protestants and atheists alike. We are fighting their wars, while they are and have been redistributing our wealth and resources around the world for quite some time now. They have you and countless others in constant fear of Islamic attacks from without, while they have taken over the nation from within. Go to, speculate about Islam and Israel, shortly the Pope will come and address the congress of the US by invitation from two Roman Catholic members of our congress and continue to increase his power and influence over the same.
I'm sure he is appreciative of your aid by way of misdirection, and indifference and apathy towards the threat posed by his power hungry and diabolical institution. The evidence supporting my claims is all around us, but I'm sure you have no interest in such things. Still why should I leave you possibly ignorant and therefore less responsible for rejecting the truth all around. I should at least leave you with a revelation of Rome's true intentions from the very beginning -
Medieval Sourcebook:
Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302
THE BULL UNAM SANCTAM , 1302
The Bull 'Unam Sanctam', in which Pope Boniface VIII asserted his rights against King Phillip the Fair of France, is a landmark in the history of the doctrine of Papal Primacy.
The following English translation of 'Unam' is taken from a doctoral dissertation written in the Dept. of Philosophy at the Catholic University of America, and published by CUA Press in 1927.
UNAM SANCTAM (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.
We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.
However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.
For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
the United States has already been marginalized, you just do not know or perceive it because you have chosen deception over truth. This once Protestant nation is now largely run by Rome. Thus are we all the more increasingly headed towards socialistic globalism at the hands of the ever increasing number of Catholic politicians who run this nation. All of whom have been instructed by the Vatican to bring about Roman Catholic social doctrine and teaching through legislation in this country and abroad. They represent the single largest block of power within our federal government, and have the cooperation of deceived Protestants and atheists alike. We are fighting their wars, while they are and have been redistributing our wealth and resources around the world for quite some time now. They have you and countless others in constant fear of Islamic attacks from without, while they have taken over the nation from within. Go to, speculate about Islam and Israel, shortly the Pope will come and address the congress of the US by invitation from two Roman Catholic members of our congress and continue to increase his power and influence over the same.
I'm sure he is appreciative of your aid by way of misdirection, and indifference and apathy towards the threat posed by his power hungry and diabolical institution. The evidence supporting my claims is all around us, but I'm sure you have no interest in such things. Still why should I leave you possibly ignorant and therefore less responsible for rejecting the truth all around. I should at least leave you with a revelation of Rome's true intentions from the very beginning -
Medieval Sourcebook:
Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302
THE BULL UNAM SANCTAM , 1302
The Bull 'Unam Sanctam', in which Pope Boniface VIII asserted his rights against King Phillip the Fair of France, is a landmark in the history of the doctrine of Papal Primacy.
The following English translation of 'Unam' is taken from a doctoral dissertation written in the Dept. of Philosophy at the Catholic University of America, and published by CUA Press in 1927.
UNAM SANCTAM (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.
We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.
However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.
For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
The Vatican is the BEAST??? Really?? The location is wrong.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
Do you know the location and identities of the Leopard, bear and lion nations? If you don't, this is one of your problems.
I disagree. The Jews in Israel try to keep the Commandments of God because they still think they are under the Law. But they don't have the testimony of Christ, that's true. But the passage doesn't say the Woman in Rev 12 has the testimony of Christ, it says her offspring does. We are in agreement that the WOMAN in Rev 12 is Israel.
But this does not mean the WOMAN in Rev 17 is also Israel. In fact, quite the opposite. This WOMAN, John did not recognize. Why? Because she did not exist in his day. Secular Israel existed but not ISLAM.
You appear to have difficulty with reading. Did you struggle with that in HS as well?
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,
Purple is the color of royalty. Scarlet is the color of sin.
I totally agree. The BEAST is a "NATION" or secular ruling entity whereas the Woman is a religion. It is fair to say that the WOMAN of Rev 12 is the faith of Israel. This WOMAN gave birth to Christ. But as we know, there will be a false Christ promoting a false religion. Can they be the same religion or are they different? Is there a prominent false religion today that has its own god and prophet?
If I prove it will you acknowledge it? See if you can follow this.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
This is telling us that there will be a BEAST or Nation/Political entity comprised of a Leopard, Bear and Lion. Do you know what countries or region this represents? Daniel 7 mentions this same thing, "beasts coming from the sea."
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The first was like a lion...
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard.
LION = Babylon
BEAR = Medo-Persia
LEOPARD = Greece
This is widely accepted by all Bible scholars I ever heard of. It's in my study Bible. What does yours say? If you disagree with this then explain what you think they represent. John recognized the ancestors of the Beast he saw in Rev 13 because he had the historical context of Daniel. John saw a "nation" (BEAST) arising from the same location as those mentioned by Daniel. Hint: It ain't Israel.
Crude oil isn't specifically stated as one of the commodities in the list there in Rev 18. However, please note this:
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Those mourning over Babylon are sad because they lost their customer. Who are their customers? The rich Saudi Oil Princes. These Saudi kings bought luxurious things to adorn their palaces. The Saudis got their wealth from the oil they sold to the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
The above is discussing the Kings of the Earth who committed fornication (Idol Worship). What Jewish kings are there? Do Jewish Kings worship idols today or do you expect them to in the future? What merchants of the earth became or will become rich by trade with Israel? Do don't have a plausible explanation for the above. The Saudis not only sold oil, like a gazillion dollars worth, they spent their money on every conceivable luxury. They are also #1 in the world in sex slavery.
I used to travel to Bahrain and visit the international hotels there because it was the only places you can have a drink. (In my younger days in the US Merchant Marines, I wasn't the best Christian). The Saudi princes built a bridge to Bahrain...
The King Fahd Causeway (Arabic: جسر الملك فهد , Jisr al-Malik Fahd) is a series of bridges and causeways connecting Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
The #1 reason why they spent $800 million wasn't to foster better relations as they said, it was to PARTY. At these hotel bars European women could be found along with drink, music and sex. I was there in 1987 just one year after the causeway opened. Saudi stretch limos, gold plated Mercedes, BMWs, Rolls Royces etcs, lined the entrance to the hotel I used to frequent. The women were mostly single young girls who worked on the airlines. I had a lengthy discussion with one of them once. She was from Ireland and told me that the Arabs do not allow their women to work on planes because it would elevate them above the men. No joke. She went on to tell me that it was common for the girls to be offered $50,000 and up to have sex with the Saudi Sheiks. She claimed that she never did but many of her co-workers did. We all know the stories of girls being kid napped and sold into sex slavery in Saudi Arabia. They are religious hypocrites and dispised my most of their more pure Islamists, like ISIS and Iran.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reachedto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Right now the Saudis have cut oil prices to hurt Iran and Russia to prevent Iran from getting a nuke. Now why would the Saudi's care if Iran got a nuke????? Any clue? Would Iran ever use a nuke against Saudi Arabia? Darn right they would and if MECCA is Babylon as I and others have stated, someone will.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
Do you know the location and identities of the Leopard, bear and lion nations? If you don't, this is one of your problems.
I disagree. The Jews in Israel try to keep the Commandments of God because they still think they are under the Law. But they don't have the testimony of Christ, that's true. But the passage doesn't say the Woman in Rev 12 has the testimony of Christ, it says her offspring does. We are in agreement that the WOMAN in Rev 12 is Israel.
But this does not mean the WOMAN in Rev 17 is also Israel. In fact, quite the opposite. This WOMAN, John did not recognize. Why? Because she did not exist in his day. Secular Israel existed but not ISLAM.
You appear to have difficulty with reading. Did you struggle with that in HS as well?
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,
Purple is the color of royalty. Scarlet is the color of sin.
I totally agree. The BEAST is a "NATION" or secular ruling entity whereas the Woman is a religion. It is fair to say that the WOMAN of Rev 12 is the faith of Israel. This WOMAN gave birth to Christ. But as we know, there will be a false Christ promoting a false religion. Can they be the same religion or are they different? Is there a prominent false religion today that has its own god and prophet?
If I prove it will you acknowledge it? See if you can follow this.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
This is telling us that there will be a BEAST or Nation/Political entity comprised of a Leopard, Bear and Lion. Do you know what countries or region this represents? Daniel 7 mentions this same thing, "beasts coming from the sea."
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The first was like a lion...
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard.
LION = Babylon
BEAR = Medo-Persia
LEOPARD = Greece
This is widely accepted by all Bible scholars I ever heard of. It's in my study Bible. What does yours say? If you disagree with this then explain what you think they represent. John recognized the ancestors of the Beast he saw in Rev 13 because he had the historical context of Daniel. John saw a "nation" (BEAST) arising from the same location as those mentioned by Daniel. Hint: It ain't Israel.
Crude oil isn't specifically stated as one of the commodities in the list there in Rev 18. However, please note this:
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Those mourning over Babylon are sad because they lost their customer. Who are their customers? The rich Saudi Oil Princes. These Saudi kings bought luxurious things to adorn their palaces. The Saudis got their wealth from the oil they sold to the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
The above is discussing the Kings of the Earth who committed fornication (Idol Worship). What Jewish kings are there? Do Jewish Kings worship idols today or do you expect them to in the future? What merchants of the earth became or will become rich by trade with Israel? Do don't have a plausible explanation for the above. The Saudis not only sold oil, like a gazillion dollars worth, they spent their money on every conceivable luxury. They are also #1 in the world in sex slavery.
I used to travel to Bahrain and visit the international hotels there because it was the only places you can have a drink. (In my younger days in the US Merchant Marines, I wasn't the best Christian). The Saudi princes built a bridge to Bahrain...
The King Fahd Causeway (Arabic: جسر الملك فهد , Jisr al-Malik Fahd) is a series of bridges and causeways connecting Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
The #1 reason why they spent $800 million wasn't to foster better relations as they said, it was to PARTY. At these hotel bars European women could be found along with drink, music and sex. I was there in 1987 just one year after the causeway opened. Saudi stretch limos, gold plated Mercedes, BMWs, Rolls Royces etcs, lined the entrance to the hotel I used to frequent. The women were mostly single young girls who worked on the airlines. I had a lengthy discussion with one of them once. She was from Ireland and told me that the Arabs do not allow their women to work on planes because it would elevate them above the men. No joke. She went on to tell me that it was common for the girls to be offered $50,000 and up to have sex with the Saudi Sheiks. She claimed that she never did but many of her co-workers did. We all know the stories of girls being kid napped and sold into sex slavery in Saudi Arabia. They are religious hypocrites and dispised my most of their more pure Islamists, like ISIS and Iran.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reachedto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Right now the Saudis have cut oil prices to hurt Iran and Russia to prevent Iran from getting a nuke. Now why would the Saudi's care if Iran got a nuke????? Any clue? Would Iran ever use a nuke against Saudi Arabia? Darn right they would and if MECCA is Babylon as I and others have stated, someone will.
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M
Like I said this sounds more reasonable than the whole Islam thing..which seems to be a theory full of holes. And I myself have made some of these same connections with the world system that is coming... Thanks for the post...if your like me it takes some effort to do some of these longer post and do appreciate your views