The over spreading of abominations led to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad., the first tribulation of the Jews is on going "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in" (not finished yet)
What is the abomination?
- Thread starter JFSurvivor
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The first tribulation is still ongoing until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, and then comes the Wrath of God upon the whole world.
The Messiah said this is the beginning of the end, the "sings of the times" He called it, when "the branch is tender"
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep. Jerusalem was destroyed as not only prophesied by daniel in chapter 9, but Jesus many times.
But that does not say it was the great tribulation. Jesus himself said that was near the end, long after the destruction of jerusalem.
so whats your point?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
wrong.
the abomination was an unclean thing in the temple. that did not happen in ad 70, in ad 70 the temple was destroyed, as was the city, in accordance with lev 26.
Has nothign to do with great tribulation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the only thing which is said to occur until the times of the gentile is complete is the partial blindness of Israel.
Has nothing to do with tribulation. the tribulation is the time of jacobs trouble, or the time of Gods wrath, they are one and the same.
Daniel 9:27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Jesus also spoke it. Mark 13:14-15[SUP]14 [/SUP]But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
This has already been fulfilled.
Jesus did not say that. Let's look at what Jesus actually said.
Matthew 24:15-21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Jesus said the great tribulation starts right after the destruction of Jerusalem.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
when?
Making a sanctuary desolate in hebrew means to make it unclean. Not to destroy it.
A non existent temple can not be made unclean, there is nothing to be made unclean if the temple is not standing. And daniel said they would see it IN THE HOLY PLACE. when did Israel see this unclean thing sitting in the holy place?
The abomination makes it desolate, because it eakes it unclean. When did this happen apart from when antiochus epiphanies did it during the maccabean desolation (also prophesied by daniel)?
if your going to try to help us understand, then show us when it happened. You claiming it did does not make it fact. it must be interpreted according to hebrew culture and belief in the time of daniel. not in your time.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The “seventy weeks” prophecy is one of the most significant and detailed Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament. It is found inDaniel 9. The chapter begins with Daniel praying for Israel, acknowledging the nation’s sins against God and asking for God’s mercy. As Daniel prayed, the angel Gabriel appeared to him and gave him a vision of Israel’s future.
The Divisions of the 70 Weeks
In verse 24, Gabriel says, “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city.” Almost all commentators agree that the seventy “sevens” should be understood as seventy “weeks” of years, in other words, a period of 490 years. These verses provide a sort of “clock” that gives an idea of when the Messiah would come and some of the events that would accompany His appearance.
The prophecy goes on to divide the 490 years into three smaller units: one of 49 years, one of 434 years, and one 7 years. The final “week” of 7 years is further divided in half. Verse 25 says, “From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’” Seven “sevens” is 49 years, and sixty-two “sevens” is another 434 years:
49 years + 434 years = 483 years
The Purpose of the 70 Weeks
The prophecy contains a statement concerning God’s six-fold purpose in bringing these events to pass. Verse 24 says this purpose is 1) “to finish transgression,” 2) “to put an end to sin,” 3) “to atone for wickedness,” 4) “to bring in everlasting righteousness,” 5) “to seal up vision and prophecy,” and 6) “to anoint the most holy.”
Notice that these results concern the total eradication of sin and the establishing of righteousness. The prophecy of the 70 weeks summarizes what happens before Jesus sets up Hismillennial kingdom. Of special note is the third in the list of results: “to atone for wickedness.” Jesus accomplished theatonementfor sin by His death on the cross (Romans 3:25;Hebrews 2:17).
The Fulfillment of the 70 Weeks
Gabriel said the prophetic clock would start at the time that a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem. From the date of that decree to the time of the Messiah would be 483 years. We know from history that the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 445 B.C. (seeNehemiah 2:1-8).
The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) covers the time that it took to rebuild Jerusalem, “with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble” (Daniel 9:25). This rebuilding is chronicled in the book of Nehemiah.
Using the Jewish custom of a 360-day year, 483 years after 445 B.C. places us at A.D. 30, which would coincide with Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:1-9). The prophecy inDaniel 9specifies that after the completion of the 483 years, “the Anointed One will be cut off” (verse 26). This was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.
Daniel 9:26continues with a prediction that, after the Messiah is killed, “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” This was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The “ruler who will come” is a reference to the Antichrist, who, it seems, will have some connection with Rome, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem.
The Final Week of the 70 Weeks
Of the 70 “sevens,” 69 have been fulfilled in history. This leaves one more “seven” yet to be fulfilled. Most scholars believe that we are now living in a huge gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The prophetic clock has been paused, as it were. The final “seven” of Daniel is what we usually call thetribulation period.
Daniel’s prophecy reveals some of the actions of theAntichrist, the “ruler who will come.” Verse 27 says, “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’” However, “in the middle of the ‘seven,’ . . . he will set up an abomination that causes desolation” in the temple. Jesus warned of this event inMatthew 24:15. After the Antichrist breaks the covenant with Israel, a time of “great tribulation” begins (Matthew 24:21, NKJV).
Daniel also predicts that the Antichrist will face judgment. He only rules “until the end that is decreed is poured out on him” (Daniel 9:27). God will only allow evil to go so far, and the judgment the Antichrist will face has already been planned out.
The Divisions of the 70 Weeks
In verse 24, Gabriel says, “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city.” Almost all commentators agree that the seventy “sevens” should be understood as seventy “weeks” of years, in other words, a period of 490 years. These verses provide a sort of “clock” that gives an idea of when the Messiah would come and some of the events that would accompany His appearance.
The prophecy goes on to divide the 490 years into three smaller units: one of 49 years, one of 434 years, and one 7 years. The final “week” of 7 years is further divided in half. Verse 25 says, “From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’” Seven “sevens” is 49 years, and sixty-two “sevens” is another 434 years:
49 years + 434 years = 483 years
The Purpose of the 70 Weeks
The prophecy contains a statement concerning God’s six-fold purpose in bringing these events to pass. Verse 24 says this purpose is 1) “to finish transgression,” 2) “to put an end to sin,” 3) “to atone for wickedness,” 4) “to bring in everlasting righteousness,” 5) “to seal up vision and prophecy,” and 6) “to anoint the most holy.”
Notice that these results concern the total eradication of sin and the establishing of righteousness. The prophecy of the 70 weeks summarizes what happens before Jesus sets up Hismillennial kingdom. Of special note is the third in the list of results: “to atone for wickedness.” Jesus accomplished theatonementfor sin by His death on the cross (Romans 3:25;Hebrews 2:17).
The Fulfillment of the 70 Weeks
Gabriel said the prophetic clock would start at the time that a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem. From the date of that decree to the time of the Messiah would be 483 years. We know from history that the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 445 B.C. (seeNehemiah 2:1-8).
The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) covers the time that it took to rebuild Jerusalem, “with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble” (Daniel 9:25). This rebuilding is chronicled in the book of Nehemiah.
Using the Jewish custom of a 360-day year, 483 years after 445 B.C. places us at A.D. 30, which would coincide with Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:1-9). The prophecy inDaniel 9specifies that after the completion of the 483 years, “the Anointed One will be cut off” (verse 26). This was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.
Daniel 9:26continues with a prediction that, after the Messiah is killed, “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” This was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The “ruler who will come” is a reference to the Antichrist, who, it seems, will have some connection with Rome, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem.
The Final Week of the 70 Weeks
Of the 70 “sevens,” 69 have been fulfilled in history. This leaves one more “seven” yet to be fulfilled. Most scholars believe that we are now living in a huge gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The prophetic clock has been paused, as it were. The final “seven” of Daniel is what we usually call thetribulation period.
Daniel’s prophecy reveals some of the actions of theAntichrist, the “ruler who will come.” Verse 27 says, “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’” However, “in the middle of the ‘seven,’ . . . he will set up an abomination that causes desolation” in the temple. Jesus warned of this event inMatthew 24:15. After the Antichrist breaks the covenant with Israel, a time of “great tribulation” begins (Matthew 24:21, NKJV).
Daniel also predicts that the Antichrist will face judgment. He only rules “until the end that is decreed is poured out on him” (Daniel 9:27). God will only allow evil to go so far, and the judgment the Antichrist will face has already been planned out.
It was the overspreading of abominations that led to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad. Jesus declared when they saw this event take place then their would great tribulation and "wrath upon this people" meaning the Jews.
I believe what throws most people off is they have been taught there is a literal 7 year tribulation period to come, but there is no such thing written in scripture. Also many do not understand that the time of 42 months is a sign of time, meaning it is symbolic, much like the 70 weeks of Daniel was also a sign of time, or symbolic of 490 years.
I started a thread on the topic called "42 months is a sign of time" if you care to study it.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
no, he did not say that AT ALL.
He said when you see it STANDING in the HOLY PLACE.
nothing about the destruction.
Even if titus did desecrate the temple. no one would have seen it. It could not have occured in 70 AD. Sorry.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
care to study it? I have studied it for years. When have you studied it in actuality?
In the hebrew the word abomination means unclean thing.
, שִׁקֻּץ: pl. שִׁקּוּצִים, cs. שִׁקּוּצֵי, sf. שִׁקּוּצֶיךָ, שִׁקּוּצֵיהֶם:—1. (pagan) abominable idol 2 K 23:24, of Milcom 1 K 11:5 &c.;—2. s.thg abominable (related to pagan cult) Na 3:6.
Holladay, W. L., & Köhler, L. (2000). A concise Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (p. 382). Leiden: Brill.
Nothing about destruction here, Desolate does not even mean destroyed.
It means to lie deserted (it still exists) to be devastated ravaged.
it is desolate, and made deserted, because an idol is placed in its area. Thus it is made unclean and not able to be used for sacrifice, it is what has caused the sacrifice to cease.
if your nto willing to study hebrew history and culture and what words or saying meant to them. no one can help you
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes there is a 7 year period of the tribulation with the last 3 1/2 years being the great tribulation, followed immediately by God's wrath. Read post #51 as it gives a break down of Daniels 70 weeks, or 490 years.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
what was the holocost? Satan doing what he has tried to do since Israel was first formed. Nothing new.
The great tribulation will make this look like a picnic.
Hey, I'm just quoting scripture, not my words.
Look at the question Jesus' disciples asked him before the prophecy of the destruction of the temple to put the conversation into context.Mark 13:1-413 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
So Jesus was telling them about the destruction of the Temple, but in Matthews account the question and the prophecy is twofold, not only about the destruction of the temple, but about the end of the world.
Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Now to Luke's account.
Luke 21:5-7
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Pay very close to verse 16 that I highlighted, as it does not say the area was destroyed.
The Lord tells those into Judea to flee into the mountains, they are not leaving or escaping out of Judea. They are just fleeing from the city area to go up into the mountains, in other words just deserting the city areas. Plus Nero who started the incursion died in 68 AD, and Titus who took over neither went into the temple and defiled it. Titus actually wanted the temple to remain, but his armies disobeyed and destroyed it any way and took the stuff from the temple. The 70 AD event was not the AOD that was mentioned by the Lord and Daniel, as the temple desecration did not take place as stated in the scriptures. With the antichrist/man of sin stand in the Holy of Holies......