Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[Enga]

Dear friends it is better to find the last work of the Holy Spirit that was ceased in the past to know the revelation. Because God the father did his work already as the creator and God the son died on the cross and now is the time of God the Holy Spirit.
The work of the Holy Spirit ceased in the past following the bible prophecy. God has his plan so it is better for use to find it.
If we find the work of Holy Spirit then we will understand revelation and everything will be clear to use.
We may have done a lot of research to find out about revelation but it is better to do research on Holy Spirit first and then do research on Revelation to know it.
Acts 21:11, Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”
This should be a question that we should ask, what will the Jewish leader will tie and hand it over to the gentiles. Who is the owner of the belt?
Paul is the owner of the belt and that may mean that the Jews in Jerusalem will kill Paul and the other disciples. When they kill and destroy all of them then No one will do the distribution of Holy Spirit just like the Disciples did.
Holy Spirit itself says that, in this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”
What were Paul and the other disciple doing? Actually, Paul was distributing the spirit of God to the people. Pauls was doing the work because he himself got the spirit of God and he Distribute them including the other disciples.
However, God was with the Israel people and also, Jesus come down and did his work in Israel. And then, what is it that will be handed over to the gentiles?
Holy Spirit itself said all this things right after the death of Jesus Christ and also after the day of Pentecost
God was with the Israel and He gave Jesus to them to unite all of use and then Jesus went up to God and asks God to send Holy Spirit in his name and Holy Spirit came down first in Israel.
However, most of them did not believe in Jesus and what was given by God was rejected. Therefore, they reject Jesus even after death and they reject Holy Spirit as well by killing the ones that distribute Holy Spirit especially the Apostles. Just because they already know God. They think that all the things Jesus did and also the disciples did was not true.
It confirmed it here,
Acts 13:46,[SUP]46 [/SUP]Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 63:10, Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.
But the question is where Holy Spirit is now? And where is the Work of the Holy Spirit Now? It’s in God’s hands. We need to find it because with the baptism of Holy Spirit we cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Acts 8:16-19, [SUP]14 [/SUP]the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted the word of God. So they sent Peter and John to the people in Samaria. [SUP]15 [/SUP]When Peter and John arrived, they prayed for the Samaritan believers to receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]16 [/SUP]These people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them. This is why Peter and John prayed. [SUP]17 [/SUP]When the two apostles laid their hands on the people, they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:1-4, While Apostles was at Corinth; Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples [SUP]2 [/SUP]and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The bible says that in line 14, “people of Samaria accepted the word of God” just like you and me when we accepted the word of Christ in the beginning when we first become Christians.
And they “baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of the”
And then it says that “they send Peter and John”- Why do they have to send peter and John?
“Peter and john prayed for the Samaritan believer”- they accepted word Jesus Christ and they believed Just like you and me.
And then it says that, “these people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them”.
If Jesus promises to send Holy Spirit to us then they should already have Holy Spirit and they do not need peter and John to put their hand on them to pray for them in order to receive Holy Spirit because they accepted the word of God and they also believe and Holy Spirit should automatically went to them. How is possible that peter and John have to go and pray for them.
It continues line 17, “When the two apostles laid their hands on the people, they received the Holy Spirit”.

1. They accept the word of Lord Jesus Christ
2. They believed AND
3. They Baptised
4. They did not receive Holy spirit

Romans 11:14, [SUP]14 [/SUP]in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy[SUP] and[/SUP] save[SUP] some[/SUP] of them.

We have to find the work of Holy Spirit that ceased with the disciples when they die. The work is actually the distribution of Holy Spirit.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't use the term AntiChrist because you won't find a singular man called the AntiChrist anywhere that I know of. Daniel calls someone the King of the North. Paul has the Man of Sin and John, near as I can tell, calls him the Beast from the Earth. I think these are all the same person and that this person comes from Turkey.

So, the Man of Sin from Turkey I believe leads the above coalition of Islamic nations against Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Israel, among others. That's what I believe. I think precious little needs to happen first, for instance, I don't see enough conclusive evidence that a third temple has to be built first.

Do you believe Antichrist is second beast?

If so than this man must come within the so call church not Muslim.

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…

 

[Ukorin]

Babylon = Israel poser
Harlot = Bride poser
beast = Kingdom poser
false prophet = Prophet poser
antichrists = Christian posers
Antichrist = Christ poser
Dragon = God poser

Perhaps not a perfect hermeneutic, but that is what I see in there.

 

[Ukorin]

Wife just told me that no one uses the word "poser" anymore,
and even when they do, it's not in the way I used it...

By "poser" I was implying "imposter" or "a person pretending to be something or someone they are not".
We used to use the word when kids would dress and talk like gangsters, even when we knew they were rich uptown kids.

 

[Jackson123]

Wife just told me that no one uses the word "poser" anymore,
and even when they do, it's not in the way I used it...

By "poser" I was implying "imposter" or "a person pretending to be something or someone they are not".
We used to use the word when kids would dress and talk like gangsters, even when we knew they were rich uptown kids.

Yup, Antichrist is Christ impostor, not Muslim. Must come from within.

 

[PlainWord]

He was carried away in the Spirit into the wilderness where he had the vision, not a literal wilderness where the woman of the vision was. The woman he sees sits on many waters which are later in the chapter defined as peoples, nations, and tongues. She also commits fornication with the kings of the earth and is involved with the merchants of the earth. What kind of wilderness is filled with peoples, nations, tongues, merchants, and kings? None. The Vatican is religiously, politically, and economically involved with all of the above.

Ah, but MECCA fits all of this. Your view is that John was taken into a wilderness somewhere and shown what, future Rome? Why not just take him to Rome? Why take him somewhere totally different to see a future city that isn't where he was taken?

My view is "taking John into the wilderness" is a major hint. John was taken to the wilderness because that's where the Harlot of the future is sitting. John was taken to the location of the Harlot. Where and what was the original harlot that the Children of Israel were worshiping? It was the Golden Calf at Mt. Sinai when Moses was getting the 10 Commandments. Where were the Children of Israel wandering for 40 years? In the Wilderness. Where is Mt. Sinai located? In Saudi Arabia. Where is MECCA located? In Saudi Arabia. What surrounds MECCA? The wilderness.

You are absolutely correct, the Sea are people from all over the world. Yes, the Vatican has this but are they the only religion that has followers visiting from every nation, people and tongue? What about Muslim pilgrims going to MECCA for the Haj? Look at the below passage and picture and tell me if it fits or not. You correctly noted that "KINGS" are committing fornication with the Harlot. Who has "Kings" Italy or Saudi Arabia and the Muslim world?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

They are falling down and worshiping the Kaaba Stone (an image fallen from the sky). It's not only what they are doing, it is where they are doing it. Again, Moses was given the 10 Commandments in the wilderness of Saudi Arabia. The very first commandment God gives is the most important. What does God say about those who worship idols?

Exodus:

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [SUP]5 [/SUP]you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

Do Catholics do this? Do Catholics worship the correct God? What God do Muslims worship? Between the two faiths, which one is has a replacement God and Prophet? Which of the two religions bows down and serves an imagine from the heavens? Which one kills those who refuse to convert by beheading? Which one is surrounding Israel and hates Israel and wants to see Israel destroyed? Same question about Christians. It may not seem like much to us, Muslims worshiping a silly meteor, but clearly it is a very big deal to GOD.

 

[PlainWord]

Do you believe Antichrist is second beast?

If so than this man must come within the so call church not Muslim.

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…

Yes, I do believe the Second Beast is the Man of Sin, which you call AntiChrist. I do not see the link between the passage you quoted above to the Man of Sin. The passage you quoted above refers to many AntiChrists. One of the biggest pitfalls I see for many Christians is they take passages out of their proper context and attempt to apply them to other passages. Not trying to offend you dear friend as I am only trying to help.

John wrote his 3 Epistles probably after AD 80 but before he wrote Revelation. John was writing to the early churches most likely from Ephesus but definitely from Asia Minor where he had been ministering. At that time, the early churches were under assault by many who denied who Christ was or if he was even a mortal man. Gnosticism and Dualism were influencing the early Church and John saw these teachings as a major threat. He therefore spend much time teaching against this heresy. John had two primary purposes in these letters; 1) pastoral and 2) polemical or to protect his flock against the deceptive ideas of false teachers. False teaching brought disunity and harms faith. Eventually deceivers entered the church among believers (2:18, 19, 26). Again, John was writing to believers speaking out against the contagious heresy of early Gnosticism. His reference to "antichrists" are in this vain. He was not speaking of this evil MAN of SIN who deceives and leads an army against Israel during Satan's Great Tribulation period that he later discusses in Revelation 13.

You will not find the word, "ANTICHRIST(S)" in Revelation or any other place in the Bible except in John's 3 short Epistles. John is clearly speaking of an evil spirit of AntiChrists here:

...and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

You see that the spirit of AntiChrist was already in the world in John's day. It remains in the world for the past 2,000 years. The Man of Sin will definitely be of the same spirit but from all I've read, I cannot find any passage where the Man of Sin proclaims to be Christ or even God. Instead, he proclaims to be above all called God or is worshiped. Many will think he is the Christ or God so I get the thinking. But this Man of Sin is Satan come as a mortal man to deceive as many as he can. He doesn't claim to be God, he claims to be above God and better than God. He wants to be worshiped for who he thinks he is - better than God. He doesn't wish to pretend he's the real God. He wants the real God to be rejected and he himself worshiped instead.

This is how Satan will deceive so many of different faiths. Most faiths see the return of someone, God, Christ, etc. Satan will claim to be above all that and state that everyone's religion is wrong and that he is it, the only divine all powerful - better than all.

 

[Reborn]

.........The Man of Sin will definitely be of the same spirit but from all I've read, I cannot find any passage where the Man of Sin proclaims to be Christ or even God. Instead, he proclaims to be above all called God or is worshiped. Many will think he is the Christ or God so I get the thinking. But this Man of Sin is Satan come as a mortal man to deceive as many as he can. He doesn't claim to be God, he claims to be above God and better than God. He wants to be worshiped for who he thinks he is - better than God. He doesn't wish to pretend he's the real God. He wants the real God to be rejected and he himself worshiped instead.

This is how Satan will deceive so many of different faiths. Most faiths see the return of someone, God, Christ, etc. Satan will claim to be above all that and state that everyone's religion is wrong and that he is it, the only divine all powerful - better than all.

Thanks for answering me PW in PM.
I asked because you sound like you read from him...a lot of the same thoughts. Was just wondering.

The Man of Sin is explained in scripture---exactly who it is / will be.
Scripture interprets scripture gentleman. No need to guess.

 

[PlainWord]

Thanks for answering me PW in PM.
I asked because you sound like you read from him...a lot of the same thoughts. Was just wondering.

The Man of Sin is explained in scripture---exactly who it is / will be.
Scripture interprets scripture gentleman. No need to guess.

Do share your insight. Who will be the Man of Sin exactly???

If "he" agrees with me then he is a good student of the Bible. I am not really familiar with his views and have read none of his works. I try not to read too much from mortal people about their prophetic views that are published. A lot of it is pure garbage IMO. Much of it is sensationalism such as the Left Behind Series or America being Babylon, etc. They are designed to make those men rich but have ZERO Biblical insight. I do try to read as much as I can from those who share a common interest in the end times providing they are not so called scholars or "experts." In my experience, a lot of material that is published are misguided works meant to lead people astray whether they do it intentionally or not.

Satan owns a lot of printing presses...

 

[Ukorin]

It's a good conversation though, and topics like these always keep me on my toes and in the Word.

I just heard an amazing study linking the man of sin to the papal dynasty. I'm not sold on it, but it was really solid.

I think some of the errors or variations in interpretation occur when we think of the whole thing as being either past, or present, or future, rather than a mix of the three... or maybe I'm the one not narrowing down enough...

I still haven't heard a solid refutation of the the interpretation of the great harlot being false Israel/false Church. It seems to me that she is Hagar, and her children are the children of Hagar. Pretending to be Children of Promise, but are truly children of the flesh, and born of slavery. This brings us to the exile of the Jews in Babylon, and be coming one with Babylon in "adultery and fornication", except for the Remnant God saved for Himself.

This same spirit runs through all the false religions, with them placing their "God" above the True God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Their "God" or Allah or Jehovah, or YHWH is only "God" in name, but not in Spirit or in Truth. By rejecting the Son, they reject the Father, and their worship is not to the Father, but false worship.

BTW, I am open to rebuke and refutation. This is something I have come to in my own study, and only confirmed by a few. This is why I keep asking about it, to gain confirmation or refutation.
But so far, no one directly addresses it, only shoves it aside in favor of Rome or Islam or US, rather than refuting it.

 

[PlainWord]

Another point on ISLAM being the only choice for the HARLOT, as if I haven't given enough evidence, is forth coming...

John gives us so many clues. The "WOMAN" or "HARLOT" is ISLAM, but Babylon is Saudi Arabia. The false religion is head quartered in Saudi Arabia. That said, look at these descriptions for Babylon (Saudi Arabia).

the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury
she glorified herself and lived luxuriously
And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her

Now pay close attention to the things the merchants of the earth have been selling to "Babylon." I'm going to provide these in list form in order.

1. gold and silver
2. precious stones and pearls
3. fine linen in purple, silk and scarlet
4. every kind of citron wood
5. every kind of object of ivory
6. every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble
7. cinnamon and incense
8. fragrant oil and frankincense
9. wine and oil
10. fine flour and wheat
11. cattle and sheep
12. horses and chariots
13. bodies and souls of men

Now look at the top imports for Saudi Arabia. I listed them in order of value. The top items are for use in industry and oil production. Ignore those. Look at all the money being spent living luxuriously as "kings."

[TABLE="width: 664"]
[TR]
[TD]TABLE 14 *
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]THE KINGDOM’S VALUE OF IMPORTS BY MAIN CATEGORY: 1989-1993[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD](Value in Millions of Saudi Riyals)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 USD~3.745 SR[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CATEGORY[/TD]
[TD] 1989-1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Transport equipment and parts thereof[/TD]
[TD] 107,854.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Machinery and mechanical appliances and parts thereof; electrical equipment and parts thereof[/TD]
[TD] 99,245.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Base metals and articles of base metals[/TD]
[TD] 43,550.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Textile and textile articles[/TD]
[TD] 42,984.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Products of the chemical and allied industries[/TD]
[TD] 36,575.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Vegetable products[/TD]
[TD] 24,086.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Live animals and animal products
[/TD]
[TD] 22,334.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Pearls; precious and semi-precious stones; precious metals; rolled precious metals and articles thereof; imitation jewelry; coins[/TD]
[TD] 21,742.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Artificial resins and plastic materials; cellulose esters and ethers, and articles thereof: rubber, synthetic rubber, lactic, and articles thereof[/TD]
[TD] 18,635.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Prepared foodstuffs; beverages; spirits and vinegar; tobacco
[/TD]
[TD] 15,785.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Instruments - photographic, cinematographic, measuring, checking, precision, medical, surgical, clocks, watches, musical, sound, television, magnetic devices and parts thereof[/TD]
[TD] 15,610.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Articles of stone, plaster, cement, asbestos, mica and similar materials; ceramic products; glass and glassware[/TD]
[TD] 15,087.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Paper making material; paper and paper board and articles thereof[/TD]
[TD] 8,990.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Miscellaneous manufactured articles
[/TD]
[TD] 8,934.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Wood and articles of wood: wood charcoal: cork and articles of cork; manufacturers of straw, esparto and other platting materials; basket ware and wickerwork[/TD]
[TD] 7,948.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Footwear, headgear, umbrellas, sunshades, wigs, riding crops and parts thereof; prepared leathers and articles thereof; artificial flowers; articles of human hair; fans[/TD]
[TD] 5,108.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Mineral products[/TD]
[TD] 5,058.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Arms, ammunition, and parts thereof[/TD]
[TD] 2,947.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Works of art; collector’s pieces, and antiques
[/TD]
[TD] 2,196.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Animal & vegetable fats and oils and their cleavage products; prepared edible fats; animal and vegetable waxes
[/TD]
[TD] 2,056.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Raw hides and skins, leather, fur skin, and articles thereof; saddlers and harness; travel goods, handbags & similar containers; articles of gut (other than silkworm gut)[/TD]
[TD] 2,023.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Grand Total[/TD]
[TD] 508,747.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Source: Central Department of Statistics, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Not on the list but perhaps the biggest clue is BODIES AND SOULS of MEN. Saudi Arabia is #1 in the sex slavery industry. Go Google it. I took a look at the Vatican's import and of Italy. The Vatican has no industry so it imports everything. But they are not big enough to make merchants of the earth rich. Not even close.

Italy top imports: Minerals, nonferrous metals, chemicals, transport equipment, energy products, minerals, nonferrous metals, textiles and clothing, food beverages. Italy imports energy products such as oil due to Italy having very little oil deposits in their country. Italy also does not have many naturally found minerals and metals, so must important many of their those to produce manufactured goods.

 

[PlainWord]

It's a good conversation though, and topics like these always keep me on my toes and in the Word.

I just heard an amazing study linking the man of sin to the papal dynasty. I'm not sold on it, but it was really solid.

I think some of the errors or variations in interpretation occur when we think of the whole thing as being either past, or present, or future, rather than a mix of the three... or maybe I'm the one not narrowing down enough...

I still haven't heard a solid refutation of the the interpretation of the great harlot being false Israel/false Church. It seems to me that she is Hagar, and her children are the children of Hagar. Pretending to be Children of Promise, but are truly children of the flesh, and born of slavery. This brings us to the exile of the Jews in Babylon, and be coming one with Babylon in "adultery and fornication", except for the Remnant God saved for Himself.

This same spirit runs through all the false religions, with them placing their "God" above the True God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Their "God" or Allah or Jehovah, or YHWH is only "God" in name, but not in Spirit or in Truth. By rejecting the Son, they reject the Father, and their worship is not to the Father, but false worship.

BTW, I am open to rebuke and refutation. This is something I have come to in my own study, and only confirmed by a few. This is why I keep asking about it, to gain confirmation or refutation.
But so far, no one directly addresses it, only shoves it aside in favor of Rome or Islam or US, rather than refuting it.

Israel does acknowledge the one and only true GOD. Israel is under the Law. She refused to acknowledge Christ as the Son of God. Actually, her religious leaders failed to acknowledge Him. Many thousands of every day Jewish citizens did follow Christ and continue to. But to say Judaism is anywhere near the Great False Religion of ISLAM in terms of who they worship and how or the sheer numbers of those who follow Judaism is like comparing a row boat to a battle ship.

The Jewish faith represents a miniscule percentage of the world's faith

Islam represents 1/4 of the world's faith. The same 1/4 we see mentioned at the 4th seal. The 3rd seal describes the Abundance of "Babylon" the Saudi Oil Kings and Princes as compared to their population at large.

 

[Ukorin]

Israel does acknowledge the one and only true GOD. Israel is under the Law. She refused to acknowledge Christ as the Son of God. Actually, her religious leaders failed to acknowledge Him. Many thousands of every day Jewish citizens did follow Christ and continue to. But to say Judaism is anywhere near the Great False Religion of ISLAM in terms of who they worship and how or the sheer numbers of those who follow Judaism is like comparing a row boat to a battle ship.

The Jewish faith represents a miniscule percentage of the world's faith

Islam represents 1/4 of the world's faith. The same 1/4 we see mentioned at the 4th seal. The 3rd seal describes the Abundance of "Babylon" the Saudi Oil Kings and Princes as compared to their population at large.

But don't Jews and Muslims have the same mother, Hagar?

By "Jews" I speak religiously, not biologically.

Can they acknowledge the One True God, even when rejecting the Son? I'm pretty sure it means that they have a different god.

 

[tourist]

But don't Jews and Muslims have the same mother, Hagar?

By "Jews" I speak religiously, not biologically.

No. Separate mothers, different philosophies, same father.

 

[Ukorin]

No. Separate mothers, different philosophies, same father.

Galatians 4 says that their mother is Hagar. And Jesus says their father is not Abraham.
This speaking of those who claim to be Jews, but don't believe God, displayed by not believing Christ, rendering them "not Jews".

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, I do believe the Second Beast is the Man of Sin, which you call AntiChrist. I do not see the link between the passage you quoted above to the Man of Sin. The passage you quoted above refers to many AntiChrists. One of the biggest pitfalls I see for many Christians is they take passages out of their proper context and attempt to apply them to other passages. Not trying to offend you dear friend as I am only trying to help.

John wrote his 3 Epistles probably after AD 80 but before he wrote Revelation. John was writing to the early churches most likely from Ephesus but definitely from Asia Minor where he had been ministering. At that time, the early churches were under assault by many who denied who Christ was or if he was even a mortal man. Gnosticism and Dualism were influencing the early Church and John saw these teachings as a major threat. He therefore spend much time teaching against this heresy. John had two primary purposes in these letters; 1) pastoral and 2) polemical or to protect his flock against the deceptive ideas of false teachers. False teaching brought disunity and harms faith. Eventually deceivers entered the church among believers (2:18, 19, 26). Again, John was writing to believers speaking out against the contagious heresy of early Gnosticism. His reference to "antichrists" are in this vain. He was not speaking of this evil MAN of SIN who deceives and leads an army against Israel during Satan's Great Tribulation period that he later discusses in Revelation 13.

You will not find the word, "ANTICHRIST(S)" in Revelation or any other place in the Bible except in John's 3 short Epistles. John is clearly speaking of an evil spirit of AntiChrists here:

...and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

You see that the spirit of AntiChrist was already in the world in John's day. It remains in the world for the past 2,000 years. The Man of Sin will definitely be of the same spirit but from all I've read, I cannot find any passage where the Man of Sin proclaims to be Christ or even God. Instead, he proclaims to be above all called God or is worshiped. Many will think he is the Christ or God so I get the thinking. But this Man of Sin is Satan come as a mortal man to deceive as many as he can. He doesn't claim to be God, he claims to be above God and better than God. He wants to be worshiped for who he thinks he is - better than God. He doesn't wish to pretend he's the real God. He wants the real God to be rejected and he himself worshiped instead.

This is how Satan will deceive so many of different faiths. Most faiths see the return of someone, God, Christ, etc. Satan will claim to be above all that and state that everyone's religion is wrong and that he is it, the only divine all powerful - better than all.

Let me quote this verse again my friend.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…


John said It Is the last hour/ End time.

So John describe the end time antichrist.

Yes antichrist is not only one person. Antichrist did exist start apostle John era to the end time.

But the characteristic features above is the end time Antichrist. ( remember the word it is last hour in the first sentence John describe)


Come from within us but not one of us.

it deny Jesus as a God but it can be do it in subtle, not always openly.


[h=1]Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven[/h]










The Independent | News | UK and Worldwide News | Newspaper › News › World › Europe

Pope claim to be God

ope Leo XIII said these things about the role of the Papacy and the Roman Church:
Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the name of Christians.

This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief. But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty...[SUP]vi[/SUP]

 

[PlainWord]

Let me quote this verse again my friend.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…


John said It Is the last hour/ End time.

So John describe the end time antichrist.

Yes antichrist is not only one person. Antichrist did exist start apostle John era to the end time.

But the characteristic features above is the end time Antichrist. ( remember the word it is last hour in the first sentence John describe)


Come from within us but not one of us.

it deny Jesus as a God but it can be do it in subtle, not always openly.


Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven












The Independent | News | UK and Worldwide News | Newspaper › News › World › Europe





Pope claim to be God

ope Leo XIII said these things about the role of the Papacy and the Roman Church:
Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the name of Christians.

This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief. But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty...[SUP]vi[/SUP]

I don't put too much stock in the "Last Hour" phrase. Look at the context. Again, John was speaking in terms of many (not one) and that was the indicator that we are in the "last hour." Look at his use of pluralism.

even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us.

John did not say "last hour before the Great Tribulation." John didn't quantify last hour at all. Could he have meant the last hour of our church being pure? Could it have been the last hour before they start being persecuted? Could it be the last hour before they are arrested? Last hour they are alive. Last hour for what?? The Last Hour comment is post tense or present tense, not future tense.

many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

John seems to be saying the "last hour" was in the present to him...

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour. I take this to mean it already is the last hour, 2,000 years ago.

"Not it will be the last hour", future tense. John then does seem to indicate there will be (Future tense) the AntiChrist coming.

"and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming"

Coming when? He doesn't say. Jesus is coming too, but when?

I try not to get too caught up in what we call the Man of Sin. I call him Satan. You can call him AntiChrist if you want. He is definitely opposed to Christ and wishes to be worshiped in place of Christ. He also wants to be worshiped in place of God.

As for the Pope, he is a compromising man trying to be popular and add to his membership. Could the RCC be the compromising Church John warns in Rev? Regardless, the Catholic religion for all its faults is not the GREAT HARLOT. ISLAM fits it to a tee.

 

[PlainWord]

I really don't understand why so many on here refuse to accept that ISLAM is the HARLOT and Babylon is Saudi Arabia. It really baffles me. It is so obvious. Maybe that's the problem, it is too obvious. But think historically. Until the Saudis found oil in 1938, they were a bunch of camel jockeys (oops, sorry. Gentlemen with camels) riding around in the desert. Nobody would think of them as the Babylon mentioned in Revelation throughout the centuries.

Until Islam became the #1 single religion in the world (There are more Muslims than Catholics) nobody saw this as the Mother of all False Religions. I didn't either until ISIS started chopping off the heads of Christians and threatening to take over Saudi Arabia and the Vatican. That's pretty much when all the pieces fell together for me.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't put too much stock in the "Last Hour" phrase. Look at the context. Again, John was speaking in terms of many (not one) and that was the indicator that we are in the "last hour." Look at his use of pluralism.

even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us.

John did not say "last hour before the Great Tribulation." John didn't quantify last hour at all. Could he have meant the last hour of our church being pure? Could it have been the last hour before they start being persecuted? Could it be the last hour before they are arrested? Last hour they are alive. Last hour for what?? The Last Hour comment is post tense or present tense, not future tense.

many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

John seems to be saying the "last hour" was in the present to him...

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour. I take this to mean it already is the last hour, 2,000 years ago.

"Not it will be the last hour", future tense. John then does seem to indicate there will be (Future tense) the AntiChrist coming.

"and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming"

Coming when? He doesn't say. Jesus is coming too, but when?

I try not to get too caught up in what we call the Man of Sin. I call him Satan. You can call him AntiChrist if you want. He is definitely opposed to Christ and wishes to be worshiped in place of Christ. He also wants to be worshiped in place of God.

As for the Pope, he is a compromising man trying to be popular and add to his membership. Could the RCC be the compromising Church John warns in Rev? Regardless, the Catholic religion for all its faults is not the GREAT HARLOT. ISLAM fits it to a tee.

My friend,

You make a list of the last hour mean in this verse as:

1. the last hour of our church being pure

2. last hour before they are arrested

3. Last hour they are alive

In my opinion last hour here is before second coming.


There is other indication in the bible that in last hour/tribulation, I believe second half of tribulation, where the second beast come and rule the world.

There is no verse that said, that the antichrist come in the last hour before our church being pure,

NO verse that the antichrist come in the last hour of our life either.

So Last hour here is before second coming. John think that Jesus will come in his life time, because no body know the hour and day when He come. But eat least John know that the Antichrist will come in the end time.

And he describe the Antichrist come from within us/church but not one of us.

 

[PlainWord]

My friend,

You make a list of the last hour mean in this verse as:

1. the last hour of our church being pure

2. last hour before they are arrested

3. Last hour they are alive

In my opinion last hour here is before second coming.


There is other indication in the bible that in last hour/tribulation, I believe second half of tribulation, where the second beast come and rule the world.

There is no verse that said, that the antichrist come in the last hour before our church being pure,

NO verse that the antichrist come in the last hour of our life either.

So Last hour here is before second coming. John think that Jesus will come in his life time, because no body know the hour and day when He come. But eat least John know that the Antichrist will come in the end time.

And he describe the Antichrist come from within us/church but not one of us.

No. I was just saying we don't know what last hour John was discussing. John never says "in the last hour of the Tribulation the AntiChrist will appear." It's all speculation. Regardless, let's say you are correct. I think the Man of Sin is the Beast of the Sea from Revelation 18. I believe he comes during Satan's tribulation and that he is responsible for most of the slaughtering of Christians and Jews.

You think that the Man of Sin/AntiChrist comes from within us, from the Church. Based on one verse which clearly states that AntiChrists (multiple) have come out from us. It does not say THE AntiChrist comes out from us. Please read it again. Look at the next verse. It is all plural. It is all about THEY.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Now consider this. John was in Asia Minor at the time he wrote this. Asia Minor is modern day Turkey. Turkey was the main part of the Ottoman Empire which was the 7th beast John wrote about. All 7 churches John wrote to in Rev 2-3 are in Turkey. Christianity was huge in Asia Minor at the start. Turkey was the birthplace of numerous Christian Apolstles and Saints such as Paul of Tarsus, Timothy, Nichols of Myra, and Polycarp of Smyrna, etc.

If the A/C was from one of these churches, then I think we satisfy the above without it being the Roman Catholic Church. Agreed? Nothing says the AntiChrist comes from the RCC. This is an assumption you make. If the A/C came from another church, would that satisfy you?

None of the other descriptions match the RCC. They all match ISLAM and Saudi Arabia perfectly. And the A/C coming from Turkey also matches.