-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
That is a good example of what advocates of God's laws are getting at in this thread:
I've heard some unbelievers try to justify abortion as sparing a child from the pains of being put in a foster home because his mother/father didn't want him. So in their minds abortion is a form of love. But we know that this is nonsense, because God's laws explain how we should love someone. Exodus 20:13's "You shall not murder" comes to mind.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
This is actually quoting the Old Testament passage of Jeremiah. And it's talking about Israel.
Jeremiah 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And what is the Hebrew word used for law in Jeremiah? It's Torah. I think the historical context, the cultural context and the language itself supports the understanding that the Torah is not done away with but is instead written on Israel's hearts. To me this means that anyone who is of Israel will have it within their hearts to follow God's instructions (i.e. Torah).
Lastly, I think it's important to realize that covenant /= law. Rather, a covenant is just a binding contract that has been agreed upon by all parties involved. The old covenant had both promises and obligations associated with it. The new covenant, I think, has the same - although they are different. This does not mean that the old laws vanished with the old covenant, though. Fortunately, they remain, so that we may continue to understand how God wants us to love and how we should act in order to live a godly life that meets with his approval. This does not mean that the law justifies us. No, Christ justifies us. The law is there only to remind us when we stray from doing right and instruct us on how to return to God's will. And I think that all of those who have the law written on their hearts will have a heart for obeying God.
Last edited:
That is a good example of what advocates of God's laws are getting at in this thread:
I've heard some unbelievers try to justify abortion as sparing a child from the pains of being put in a foster home because his mother/father didn't want him. So in their minds abortion is a form of love. But we know that this is nonsense, because God's laws explain how we should love someone. Exodus 20:13's "You shall not murder" comes to mind.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
This is actually quoting the Old Testament passage of Jeremiah. And it's talking about Israel.
Jeremiah 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And what is the Hebrew word used for law in Jeremiah? It's Torah. I think the historical context, the cultural context and the language itself supports the understanding that the Torah is not done away with but is instead written on Israel's hearts. To me this means that anyone who is of Israel will have it within their hearts to follow God's instructions (i.e. Torah).
Lastly, I think it's important to realize that covenant /= law. Rather, a covenant is just a binding contract that has been agreed upon by all parties involved. The old covenant had both promises and obligations associated with it. The new covenant, I think, has the same - although they are different. This does not mean that the old laws vanished with the old covenant, though. Fortunately, they remain, so that we may continue to understand how God wants us to love and how we should act in order to live a godly life that meets with his approval. This does not mean that the law justifies us. No, Christ justifies us. The law is there only to remind us when we stray from doing right and instruct us on how to return to God's will. And I think that all of those who have the law written on their hearts will have a heart for obeying God.
This is of excellent understanding. A covenant and the terms and conditions of the covenant are two different things. The Law was the terms and conditions of the Old Covenant. We are told in Hebrews 8, via Jeremiah 31, that the terms and conditions of the New Covenant is the same Law with a deeper spiritual aspect. The magnifying of the Law as referenced in Mat 5:17 which refers to Isa 42:21.
I just did...maybe you missed it?and im not sure what your problem is again with the clear and evident fact that if folks really love the law of God they would be teaching "love" not legalism!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Sir go on and on about how you believe you know the truth of God...how many years you have studied or whatever? In fact legalist often have a tendency to brag, but the commandment of God is to love and those who do not know and teach love are not children of God....no matter how long they have been in a certain religion.
isn't the scripture saying we should serve God in the spirit of the law not in the letter of the law.....are there two different laws??? or am I missing something...???...it is not the oldness of the letter we are delivered from...when we are in Christ...all it is saying we should do these things out of compassion and mercy and love....not simply because it is the right thing to do...the law was a schoolmaster...but now Christ is here...we follow Christ example in obeying the same laws but with a heart of compassion and mercy and love...not according to the written code.."thou shalt not.." but all the same we must know what are the" thou shalt nots"
so how then do we teach one to love the law and not teach what the law is....? in showing his love for God ,Christ obeyed his every command even the death on the cross.....showing mercy ,compassion and love to the very end...even so we are called to follow in his footsteps...
if you see a brother steal would it make you a legalist if tell him thou shall not steal?? 1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth
One of the promises of the new covenant is that the law will be written on our hearts. I think a good example of an obligation in this case - unless I'm mistaken - is that we put our faith in Christ, so that we may be counted among the People of God (i.e. grafted in).
M
Mitspa
Guest
I would ask this question again today? why legalism when we know that love fulfills every commandment of God?
M
Mitspa
Guest
No, it just said we are set free from the law so we could serve God in the Spirit... Not the letter. (can some of you guys read?) And if I seen a brother steal I could use the law as a witness to love...but love is the fulfillment of the commandment. And if he kept the commandment of Christ to love he would not even be tempted to steal...he would be looking for a place to give.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
That is true, if a person understands what "fulfills" means/implies....................as in the Two Commandments given by Jesus, of which He said "love fulfills............"
This simply means that IF one loves God...............................and their neighbor........................... and are filled with Agape love (God-like love) they will automatically do what Jesus commanded them to do.............and keeping the 10 Commandments would fall under this as well...............
If we are in "full obedience" of the Two, we will automatically keep the others, for it will be a fruit of our "new man."
O
oldthennew
Guest
if my husband and I could adopt PR, we would gladly do so,
but, seeing that we are contemporaries, we will have to settle
for just plain ole brother and sisters in Christ -
so,.....................................................................................
but, seeing that we are contemporaries, we will have to settle
for just plain ole brother and sisters in Christ -
so,.....................................................................................
if my husband and I could adopt PR, we would gladly do so,
but, seeing that we are contemporaries, we will have to settle
for just plain ole brother and sisters in Christ -
so,.....................................................................................
iffin y'all got a good fishing hole nearsby...........shoot, I kin be had.............
M
Mitspa
Guest
Well the scripture says every commandment of God is fulfilled in love....so lets use a little simplicity in Christ....Love should be taught, not legalism! We should not be teaching the written code of Moses, but the commandment of Christ to love as He has loved us...
Well the scripture says every commandment of God is fulfilled in love....so lets use a little simplicity in Christ....Love should be taught, not legalism! We should not be teaching the written code of Moses, but the commandment of Christ to love as He has loved us...
Hey, I'm fine with that! It's just when folks here start with the Law vs. Grace stuff, many of them do not understand the Commandments given to us by Jesus during His ministry here on earth ARE FOR the Church to keep/obey. AND if we truly love Him, we will automatically keep those Commandments for it is He "within" us.................
God bless
M
Mitspa
Guest
I have never heard a real honest believer suggest that on this forum that I can remember? The law and grace stuff is the substance of the New Testament...almost every epistle addresses this issue for a very important reason? Because as long as a believer is under law, they are in the flesh.
I believe if all would learn from Jesus Christ, the further teachings of Paul are better understood, after all, He died to bring us the teachings and He is The Teacher, no one else.
If going to the Source is not good enough for some, this is his choice, however I love my Salvation, Jesus Christ. He even teaches us to come to Him for teaching for He gives us rest, but not from avoiding sin, no, from the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
If going to the Source is not good enough for some, this is his choice, however I love my Salvation, Jesus Christ. He even teaches us to come to Him for teaching for He gives us rest, but not from avoiding sin, no, from the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
Suggest what? Keeping the Commandments Jesus gave us? I have stated and defended that since I became a member here. As have others................the problem arises when folks can not separate the Law of Moses from what Jesus taught in His ministry here on earth.
Some people do not seem to be able to grasp the concept of "The Law of Faith" that Paul spoke of. They see the word "Law' and immediately go on the attack calling anyone who uses the word various and sundry names and such.
Remember that God Himself said He would write His Laws in/or our hearts...........that is what it means when I say that if we obey what Jesus taught of the Two Commandments, we will be in obedience to the rest, for they are written in/on our hearts with the Love of God.
Anyway, just my thoughts
Do those who have received the Holy Spirit from God have need to repeat we are to love each other?? Allof the law hangs on love. God is love. Thus the laws are still there depending on Love. Study the law and learn that the ones on morality and behavior are just as much in effect living in grace as they ever were. Or is it alright to deliberately break the commandments?
C
C
M
Mitspa
Guest
My friend you have it backwards ..you cannot understand the Lords ministry to those under the law until you understand the purpose of the law. You cannot understand the grace and love He gave to sinners and the sharp rebuke to the self righteous until you understand the gospel delivered to us through the Apostle Paul.
M
Mitspa
Guest
The Lord was speaking in terms of the law to those under the law..at the same time showing the fulfilment of the law to come through His Love for us. The law written in our hearts is the Spirit of God. Not the written code of Moses!
See, you are doing exactly what others do...........mistake the Law of Moses for the Law of Faith...........the Commandments of Jesus...........as long as you guys do this, you will never understand..........sigh........but I will keep trying to explain it!