Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[john832]

I once worked at McDonalds. New owners tore down the building and rebuilt it. We not only had new kinds of equipment, but a whole set of new rules as to how we prepare the food. Things ran much smoother, it was a better way. In the old way, as manager, I had to guess what the customers would order and make those kinds of sandwiches ahead of time so that they would be ready upon order, and our drive thru would run faster than making it at the moment it is ordered. The problem with this is if the customer asked for no mustard on their burger, or did not order the premade sandwiches, we had to throw away these premade sandwiches when the timer declared them too old to sell. That was behind the scenes, but to the customer they got the exact same sandwich as in the old building, but it was fresher because it was now made to order.

In the same way, Christ tore down the old and rebuilt the new in three days. The exact same product is still produced, just in a different way. Under Moses it was done physically, but under Christ it is done spiritually. So, for example, take the old law not to murder physically, under Christ if you hate your brother then you are guilty or murder spiritually- whether you carry it out physically or not. So the same product is produced- do not murder, do not even hate to begin with. Jesus says if you love God and love your neighbor you will not murder, steal from your neighbor, or etc, and as a result we obey God just the same as those who were under the law of the prophets- same product/result, but different method/authority.

So what is the difference? There's a HUGE difference! The bible says if you obey part of a law you must obey all of it! Therefore, if you obey any part of the old law, you must do all of it such as stoning people, making payments with animals, and good luck finding a two thousand year old high priest to sacrifice for your sins on your behalf.

So, you see, if you read the scriptures I first posted, you will see that it is not flawed, but made perfect, because under Christ we are free from the old law that was not perfect. (Hebrews 10:4 and Hebrews 7:19 but Colossians 2:14).

Show me where Christ tore down the Law and rebuilt it.

 

[john832]

You're on a roll, Kaycie! After all, one can not serve two masters, both the Law and the LORD.

Hmmm, kinda misrepresented that one big time, didn't ya?

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Anytime one blatantly misquotes scripture, it completely destroys their credibility.

 

[posthuman]

(in re: Colossians 2)

Not what that says my friend. What is says is don't let anyone else condemn you for KEEPING the Sabbath, Feast Days New Moons or what you eat.

G2919

κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
Total KJV occurrences: 114

it says nothing at all about whether to keep it or not to keep it. elsewhere Paul says "one man regards one day, and another regards all days" -- what i do, it is to the Lord, not to you.

it says do not let anyone judge you "with regard to" it -- the word is "en" and it carries no connotation of keeping or of not keeping.

it says quite clearly, "these things are a shadow" and that Christ is the substance.

you are in error to make it a law for those gentiles who have believed.

 

[clittle]

OK, lemme see, you are contending that Christ said this...

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Is that correct? If so, please read this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."

the apostles said they gave no such commandment to the gentiles. but circumcision was Law under Moses, correct?
now under the new covenant, it is not.

Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.

interestingly,

Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

and

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

so perhaps more study and understanding is needed concerning the 2 covenants, since -

This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

 

[john832]

You're the one who doesn't seem to understand the difference between needing to obey the Law (Old Covenant) and being obedient because Christ has fulfilled the Law (New Covenant).

Yeah, Christ didn't understand it either...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul didn't seem to either...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

And poor old John, apparently was clueless according to you...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

He even wrote it in another book...

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

 

[john832]

I didn't say there was no Law, I said Jesus the Christ fulfilled the Law. There's a difference. Obedience only means something if it's born out of love for someone. I choose to obey Christ out of love for Him and what He's done for me, not because someone told me I have to obey Him, to love Him to love others. In Christ, we have freedom. In Christ, we live lives of grace because He first showed us His grace. In Christ, we have Life. Christ made the covenant with us, we didn't make it. We just have to choose to accept or reject Him and His sacrifice. If we accept Him, then we're secure in Him.

No matter what we do?


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Grandpa]

Where in the Bible do we find that Christ is our Sabbath?
Our Sabbath from WHAT EXACTLY?

You know Sabbath means rest, right?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest from our work (failed) at the law.

Don't you people read the New Testament? Its all in there.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[clittle]

Uh, lemme see, a Millennium?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Yes Virginia, there is a Millennium.

but you used peter.

The Rest of God, the Millennium (II Pet 3:8), is the fulfillment of the seventh day Sabbath. So in order to picture the Millennium, we keep the seventh day Sabbath as a reminder, a shadow.

2 peter-3:8 says nothing about a millennium.
revelation 20 may or may not speak of a future millennium, but you can not use peter since it does not.

 

[Grandpa]

Well then, if you happen to go home some evening and there is a thug at your house and he brutally beats and rapes you, then steals all your valuables and kills your loved ones, remember he is no longer under that old Law..

You don't understand who the law is for.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Jesus Christ said this about the Law...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now if you think all is fulfilled, when did this happen?

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Right here;

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[john832]

Hey Pengy, I'm just curious, how do you personally honor the Sabbath?

1.) Don't work for personal gain nor employ others to work for you.

2.) Attend Sabbath services

3.) Spend extra time in personal prayer and Bible study. Intensify your personal relationship with God by spending more time with Him.

4.) The Sabbath is a wonderful day to visit the sick and elderly. It is a great time to go to a nursing home or visit a shutin.

5.) The Sabbath is a Feast day, it should include a nice meal.

 

[john832]

Thanks for your response. So you are a SDA or..?

I began keeping the Sabbath in 1969 and have never been to an SDA meeting of any kind. Just curious but why do people assume all Sabbath keepers are SDAs? (honest question)

 

[john832]

Reread my post #24 and you will see that no, I do not think that it is ok to steal, murder (not kill), or covet. What I am saying is that both the law of Moses and the law of Christ say not to steal, murder, or covet, BUT we are only to obey Christ and not Moses. When I choose to not sin it is because I am obeying Christ, not Moses.

If there were a yellow block and a red block, and Moses told me to pick up the red block I would not obey. If Christ said to pick up the red block I will obey. It matters not that it's the same block.

Perhaps you have scriptures that tell us that the Ten Commandments were not spoken by Christ? Perhaps you have scriptures that tell us not to obey the Ten Commandments?

I would be very interested in seeing them.

 

[john832]

That's a strange reading of Revelation. I thought you just had to be in Christ (our Sabbath) to be sealed.

There is your problem, that is what you thought and scripture says otherwise...

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. [/quote]

 

[john832]

You still don't seem to understand, this is the Old Covenant! We live in the light of the New Covenant. Ditch religion and cling to Christ!

Christ is somewhat particular about how we cling to Him...

Luk 6:46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[john832]

the whole problem i have with the idea that sunday worship is the mark of the beast is this: How is the store going to know if you went in to some evil church building and worshiped at an unholy altar on Sunday? I don't think you could get every single person to go somewhere every single week. Sounds like a total nightmare that would cause 2 day traffic jams

How about if you must work on the seventh day or you do not have a job? How about if you do any work on Sunday you are arrested?

Think this can't happen?

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine - March, 321 A.D.

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

 

[john832]

leviticus 23 explains that the sabbath day included sacrifices.
christians do not offer sacrifices of food or animals to the Lord, and they do not have a priest making wave offerings.
the sabbath was part of mosaic law, and inextricably bound to the feasts, also mosaic law, all related to the temple, sacred assemblies, which all included sacrifices.

“ ‘These are the Lord’s appointed festivals, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: - leviticus 23.

God received the smoke of the animal sacrifices, a pleasing aroma.

all requiring priests and a temple, and all before Jesus made the final sacrifice.

"walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." ephesians-5

christians good works and prayers are considered sacrifices, presumably offered 7 days a week.

I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. philippians-4

Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked. The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

the new testament never records anyone sacrificing animals or other temple ordinances after Jesus was raised from the dead.
it was not possible to properly observe the sabbath without the temple ordinances.

And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. hebrews-13

No one has said that the Sabbath should be kept as Israel did under the Aaronic Priesthood. The New Testament Priesthood is the Mechisidec Priesthood. That does not do away with the Ten Commandments.

Neither does it do away with sacrifice. Christ is now the Sacrifice. The animal sacrifices were the schoolmaster that brought us to Christ.

 

[john832]

Some of you people twist God's teachings and my words. Goodbye.

And some people ignore them completely.

 

[clittle]

No one has said that the Sabbath should be kept as Israel did under the Aaronic Priesthood. The New Testament Priesthood is the Mechisidec Priesthood. That does not do away with the Ten Commandments.

so you don't obey the commandments?

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. - exodus 20

where might we find the commandments to go out, attend services, visit people and so on? or is that your own version?
just wondering how you determined what is acceptable to God and what is not since you say "No one has said that the Sabbath should be kept as Israel did"

 

[clittle]

No one has said that the Sabbath should be kept as Israel did under the Aaronic Priesthood. The New Testament Priesthood is the Mechisidec Priesthood. That does not do away with the Ten Commandments.

Neither does it do away with sacrifice. Christ is now the Sacrifice. The animal sacrifices were the schoolmaster that brought us to Christ.

are you saying Christ is repeatedly sacrificed?

 

[john832]

(in re: Colossians 2)

it says nothing at all about whether to keep it or not to keep it. elsewhere Paul says "one man regards one day, and another regards all days" -- what i do, it is to the Lord, not to you.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107457-sabbath-7th-day-abolished-4.html#post1884587

it says do not let anyone judge you "with regard to" it -- the word is "en" and it carries no connotation of keeping or of not keeping.

it says quite clearly, "these things are a shadow" and that Christ is the substance.

you are in error to make it a law for those gentiles who have believed.

Please explain to me how Col 2:16-17 says the Sabbath is done away or cancelled or whatever. It says they are a shadow or type of something. Let's examine the verses in question, I suspect that you may not be reading them correctly...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Now what this says is this...

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Notice that the parenthetical phrase "in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;" modifies the sentence/ The rules of grammar tell us a parenthetical thought can be removed from a sentence and the sentence will still make sense. OI, let's do just that...

Let no man therefore judge you but the body is of Christ.

Now, notice the word is is italicized? Means it was not in the original. So the original sentence is...

Let no man therefore judge you but the body of Christ.

Now what is no man but the body of Christ suppose to be judging one in?

in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;

This passage in no way cancels Laws concerning food (the Grk here is brosis and means food, not just meat), drink, Holydays, New Moons or Sabbaths.

They are a shadow of things that are yet to come and this was written twenty some years AFTER the crucifixion.