Are Christians obligated to tithe?

[Sirk]

God loves a generous giver.

 

[RickyZ]

I'm not sure why this debate rages on. Under the Old Covenant, the first 10% belongs to God. Under the new, 100% belongs to Him. Didn't Jesus tell a rich man to sell EVERYTHING he has and give it to the poor in order to follow Him? Give as Christ directs you, for all you have is His.

 

[posthuman]

I'm not sure why this debate rages on. Under the Old Covenant, the first 10% belongs to God. Under the new, 100% belongs to Him. Didn't Jesus tell a rich man to sell EVERYTHING he has and give it to the poor in order to follow Him? Give as Christ directs you, for all you have is His.

i don't know why either. i guess we want to compare our righteousness with others? or boast?

folks, we all have exactly the same righteousness - Christ's, who gave everything, willingly, under no compulsion. He did not have to show us mercy!

 

[Ukorin]

I disagree that God wants everything we have for the Church use. We are commanded to provide for our family first, lest we be found worse than infidels. God wants the precious part of us that is without price according to Matthew 22:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Jesus assigned disciples to go out ministering the gospel after the Levite manner, neither he nor any apostle changing that. Matthew 10:9-11 (KJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

But, our current generation has made all sorts of alternate doctrines, substituting comfortable gifts here and there for the tithe which Jesus, our High Priest, still receives of ministers on earth according to Hebrews 7. It is no wonder to me why so many people suffer in finances, still ignoring the Bible in many ways. I don't believe God will back the money system of any nation that robs him. Israel did it and was carried off into slavery, their money though based on silver, not promises. At least a silver shekel was worth its weight in silver. No nation is immune of such a calamity, especially those like ours whose money isn't backed by anything. That's a reason they put "In God We Trust" on it. The vast majority of Americans don't tithe, following that same pattern. I hope that we will collectively realize our national sin when the dollar won't buy anything, that yet it could be turned around upon our repentance.

We define Church very differently. The Church is the Body of Christ, not an earthly organization or denomination.
I mentioned family in my post, because providing for our families is building the Church.
Having a good witness builds the Church.

We are (all Believers) the priests and ministers of Christ to the world, not only those titled as "pastor" or "reverend".
We are to put all our efforts and resources into the Kingdom, starting first with our families, then to our local congregation, then to our communities, then to the rest of the world. There is no one to tithe to. Do we tithe to ourselves? We are only left with the ability to be generous in all things.

Also:
There is no physical blessing upon 10% givers. We gave up those physical promises when we united with Christ.
Do you want to be back under the physical Law, or will you reside in the Spirit of it?
We seek a greater promise, and obtain a greater hope.

 

[Ukorin]

If a person is giving only 10% of all they have (efforts, time, resources, knowledge) to God, are they really being obedient?
The question comes as this: if I give 100% of all I am and own to the poor (and to the provispon of my household), but never a dime to a "church", am I being obedient in giving?
The answer is absolutely yes.

We are not called to give to denominations, but directly to God.
How do we give directly to God?
By doing His work that He planned for us in advance to do.

I'm not saying that giving to a congregation is bad: it is a good thing!
But only in the sense that you are giving to the ministries of that congregation, rather than simply out of duty.

 

[SolidGround]

If a person is giving only 10% of all they have (efforts, time, resources, knowledge) to God, are they really being obedient?
The question comes as this: if I give 100% of all I am and own to the poor (and to the provispon of my household), but never a dime to a "church", am I being obedient in giving?
The answer is absolutely yes.

We are not called to give to denominations, but directly to God.
How do we give directly to God?
By doing His work that He planned for us in advance to do.

I'm not saying that giving to a congregation is bad: it is a good thing!
But only in the sense that you are giving to the ministries of that congregation, rather than simply out of duty.

As a Pastor, I fully agree. I would prefer to not ever get paid, if I had the knowledge that my congregation was giving all their offerings directly to others needs. I would feel like a very successful minister if I had a congregation that "got it", and really did live up to their calling as ministers themselves.
(it would also put me out of a job, but God has always provided)

 

[posthuman]

If a person is giving only 10% of all they have (efforts, time, resources, knowledge) to God, are they really being obedient?
The question comes as this: if I give 100% of all I am and own to the poor (and to the provispon of my household), but never a dime to a "church", am I being obedient in giving?
The answer is absolutely yes.

We are not called to give to denominations, but directly to God.
How do we give directly to God?
By doing His work that He planned for us in advance to do.

I'm not saying that giving to a congregation is bad: it is a good thing!
But only in the sense that you are giving to the ministries of that congregation, rather than simply out of duty.

amen!
our obligation is to Jah and His work -- not to a collection box.
and that obligation is as we purpose in our hearts, and the purpose of our hearts is what the Spirit is given to us in order to transform, that we become conformed to the image of the Son. that image and spirit is not one of fear of condemnation, but of the love of sonship and brother/sisterhood.

 

[john832]

this is terrible.
you need to give money to men to develop faith to believe God will provide for you.
i pray the Lord forgives your corruption of matthew - 6

Uh, do you send your U.S. dollars directly to heaven? I would really like to know how you package and address it. Perhaps you can explain to us all how to give cash directly to Christ.

While we wait, I guess I 'll just have to continue to give mine to the work of God here on earth.

I am waiting with bated breath.

 

[john832]

Did the Levites tithe?
If we are priests of Christ, and the Church is the fulfillment of the Temple,
and all of us a part of that Temple,
then that Law is for those who are not in Christ. (If anyone in the world is obeying the Law, but not in Christ, we should be expecting checks)

As priests, ALL that we have is for the use and purpose of the Temple (the Church) and a tithe is not needed.
The question we should be asking is: are we working for the building of the Church, or just building a comfortable life.
I'm guilty as any.

Uh, yes the Levites did tithe...

Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Neh 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not sure why this debate rages on. Under the Old Covenant, the first 10% belongs to God. Under the new, 100% belongs to Him. Didn't Jesus tell a rich man to sell EVERYTHING he has and give it to the poor in order to follow Him? Give as Christ directs you, for all you have is His.

Have you sold everything you have and given it unto the poor?

 

[clittle]

17The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."
1 timothy-5

 

[Sirk]

Is it good stewardship to sell all you own and give to the poor? What about using your resources to "teach a man to fish". Seems to me that the lesson about money and possessions is to keep a very loose grip on it and if it is your god you better do some priority rearranging.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

We define Church very differently. The Church is the Body of Christ, not an earthly organization or denomination.
I mentioned family in my post, because providing for our families is building the Church.
Having a good witness builds the Church.

We are (all Believers) the priests and ministers of Christ to the world, not only those titled as "pastor" or "reverend".
We are to put all our efforts and resources into the Kingdom, starting first with our families, then to our local congregation, then to our communities, then to the rest of the world. There is no one to tithe to. Do we tithe to ourselves? We are only left with the ability to be generous in all things.

Also:
There is no physical blessing upon 10% givers. We gave up those physical promises when we united with Christ.
Do you want to be back under the physical Law, or will you reside in the Spirit of it?
We seek a greater promise, and obtain a greater hope.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

I'd like to see your scripture basis, in context, fitting it to what we know about the lives of the apostles and early church. Where did the word change to give you power as priest to determine how a tithe is spent?

I skip over the Mosaic command to tithe, to 430 years before Moses, to the tithe of the Abrahamic Covenant. I am also still under the Noahic Covenant, reminded every time I see a rainbow. We had a double rainbow, got a photo of it. I cherish all promises of God.

The Church is not metaphysical. It takes on a very physical manifestation when we assemble together to praise and worship. You will not avoid the physical when laying hands on the sick for their recovery.

Nor should a Christian give up physical blessings. We struggled many years until tithing. Unexpected work advancements, great private business ideas flowed and prospered, and many fine unexpected inheritances came along with those we expected some day. Occasional health crises came and went. Vehicles are paid for and not wearing out, tires now double the mileage expected.

People who refuse to tithe are the ones with a hand out, taking blessing, yet not changing their minds about how to getin position to extend a hand of help. That's a very physical thing.

We are no longer attending a big expensive church, the last one splitting over a construction proposal, but are aligned with a congregation that rents a small facility very inexpensively, where our tithe goes to one pastor, who in turn tithes to other pastors, whichever comes for help until his congregation begins to tithe. Many of those must maintain a "day job" selling cars or stocking store shelves instead of being about the Lord's business. I am doing what I can to change that.

 

[clittle]

1 Timothy 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

I'd like to see your scripture basis, in context, fitting it to what we know about the lives of the apostles and early church. Where did the word change to give you power as priest to determine how a tithe is spent?

I skip over the Mosaic command to tithe, to 430 years before Moses, to the tithe of the Abrahamic Covenant. I am also still under the Noahic Covenant, reminded every time I see a rainbow. We had a double rainbow, got a photo of it. I cherish all promises of God.

The Church is not metaphysical. It takes on a very physical manifestation when we assemble together to praise and worship. You will not avoid the physical when laying hands on the sick for their recovery.

Nor should a Christian give up physical blessings. We struggled many years until tithing. Unexpected work advancements, great private business ideas flowed and prospered, and many fine unexpected inheritances came along with those we expected some day. Occasional health crises came and went. Vehicles are paid for and not wearing out, tires now double the mileage expected.

People who refuse to tithe are the ones with a hand out, taking blessing, yet not changing their minds about how to getin position to extend a hand of help. That's a very physical thing.

We are no longer attending a big expensive church, the last one splitting over a construction proposal, but are aligned with a congregation that rents a small facility very inexpensively, where our tithe goes to one pastor, who in turn tithes to other pastors, whichever comes for help until his congregation begins to tithe. Many of those must maintain a "day job" selling cars or stocking store shelves instead of being about the Lord's business. I am doing what I can to change that.

so, if i understand you correctly, you are "tithing" to get something from God?
and if i tithe without ceasing, will my tires last forever?

i certainly agree that stadiums and lavish theatrical settings for false teachers is abominable.
but then, these are not christian preachers anyway - so why would anyone complain?
this is the world doing what the world has always done.

simple churches for regular assembly and a pastor's humble wages surely are not too much for the believers?
grumbling, grumbling. hmmmm

 

[dcontroversal]

God loves a generous giver.

Yes he does in deed!

 

[kennethcadwell]

salvation by good works, then?

oh yes!! lots of that on here lately.

I showed the original meaning/context on how the Greek words pisteuo and echo is used in post #27.
It falls on you two and others to accept that or not, as the bible can not contradict itself, and the Lord says more than once that only after one has endured to the end and done the will of God do they get eternal life/salvation; not before. Taking those verses and the Greek context shows it doesn't contradict, and the placing of eternal life as an immediate physical possession and not an assurance as a mental possession is mans twist on the word.
The parables in Matthew 25 all have the same common theme to them, and that is not only a mere belief gets you salvation. But a faith that is followed by love and obedience to Him, and that love is to be shown in our outward actions, words, and character. Luke 12:46 says that when the Lord comes back and finds any of His servants being disobedient He will cut them in two and place them with the unbelievers. I know some like to cancel out obedience and look at it as a dirty word, but obedience comes through love and not a way to earn......

 

[clittle]

I showed the original meaning/context on how the Greek words pisteuo and echo is used in post #27.
It falls on you two and others to accept that or not, as the bible can not contradict itself, and the Lord says more than once that only after one has endured to the end and done the will of God do they get eternal life/salvation; not before. Taking those verses and the Greek context shows it doesn't contradict, and the placing of eternal life as an immediate physical possession and not an assurance as a mental possession is mans twist on the word.
The parables in Matthew 25 all have the same common theme to them, and that is not only a mere belief gets you salvation. But a faith that is followed by love and obedience to Him, and that love is to be shown in our outward actions, words, and character. Luke 12:46 says that when the Lord comes back and finds any of His servants being disobedient He will cut them in two and place them with the unbelievers. I know some like to cancel out obedience and look at it as a dirty word, but obedience comes through love and not a way to earn......

stand in faith. if we truly trust in Christ, we shall be changed.
obedience a dirty word? what silliness
if my friend says, Come, let's take the boat and go fishing, and i love my friend, i am doing what i want to do - spend time with my friend....whether or not i like fishing.

 

[kennethcadwell]

salvation by good works, then?

oh yes!! lots of that on here lately.

stand in faith. if we truly trust in Christ, we shall be changed.
obedience a dirty word? what silliness
if my friend says, Come, let's take the boat and go fishing, and i love my friend, i am doing what i want to do - spend time with my friend....whether or not i like fishing.

Well I am happy that you understand that, as I have came across a few on here who believe that they can love the Lord, but not obey Him. And they do look at obedience as a dirty word, and have debated with me many of times on this subject. Even though I posted 100 scriptures from the bible about obedience in a believers life. I was just like a few others to who thought salvation is immediately ours, until I actually studied the scriptures and the Greek wording for belief and salvation.
Because the one thing I could not get over was how some scriptures make it look as if it is ours now, but others show that it is not given tell after endurance and the will of God is lived out in our lives. I said wait a minute the bible can not contradict itself, so I started studying. What I found with the Holy Spirit guiding me was the truth, and that is pisteuo (belief,believe) is a continuation verb stating to continue in that leads to something. And in this case it leads to salvation, and pisteuo is paired with echo; which means to have in hand as a mental possession (assurance).

 

[Sirk]

Well I am happy that you understand that, as I have came across a few on here who believe that they can love the Lord, but not obey Him. And they do look at obedience as a dirty word, and have debated with me many of times on this subject. Even though I posted 100 scriptures from the bible about obedience in a believers life. I was just like a few others to who thought salvation is immediately ours, until I actually studied the scriptures and the Greek wording for belief and salvation.
Because the one thing I could not get over was how some scriptures make it look as if it is ours now, but others show that it is not given tell after endurance and the will of God is lived out in our lives. I said wait a minute the bible can not contradict itself, so I started studying. What I found with the Holy Spirit guiding me was the truth, and that is pisteuo (belief,believe) is a continuation verb stating to continue in that leads to something. And in this case it leads to salvation, and pisteuo is paired with echo; which means to have in hand as a mental possession (assurance).

I don't think obedience is a dirty word...... I just wonder if you live in a bubble, because the world I live in is fraught danger and temptation and with people who are selfish, sometimes downright mean, emotions run high, tension is present and I know that there are times when I'm in the throws of business dealings...other people putting their problems and difficulties on me....or just downright unhappy red light people etc etc....it is virtually impossible NOT to be disobedient to the teachings of Jesus in some way.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I don't think obedience is a dirty word...... I just wonder if you live in a bubble, because the world I live in is fraught danger and temptation and with people who are selfish, sometimes downright mean, emotions run high, tension is present and I know that there are times when I'm in the throws of business dealings...other people putting their problems and difficulties on me....or just downright unhappy red light people etc etc....it is virtually impossible NOT to be disobedient to the teachings of Jesus in some way.

This is why we have the Holy Spirit to help us in areas we are weak, and when we do slip up or back slide that is where repentance and/or confession comes into play. Which is why we are told to never cease from praying to Him, for He is our guide and helper and His grace will bring us through it.