Are Christians obligated to tithe?

[Word_Swordsman]

It is true that the Levites who recieved tithes which were not a part of the high priesthood...did also give a required ten percent to the high priesthood.
This does not change the fact that the high priesthood does not tithe to the high priesthood.
So...if you believe you do not have access to the holiest of all, then by all means tithe and keep 90 percent, cause it's your reward.
I suppose that would be something like only being baptized by John the baptist.

Not judging...just saying that God is the inheritance of the high priesthood, and I am so glad to give all for the one who died for me and gave me such access to the holiest of all continually...not once a year.

Our priesthood as well as citizenship is of the heavenly. But we still live on earth in the flesh. Emphasizing priesthood ought to come well after emphasis on being a disciple of Christ. There's also prophecy attached to 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Peter was ministering to Jewish Christians in that letter. They will be part of a really big deal in Israel, not in America or anywhere else, when Jesus returns. Instead of their Levites ministering to the rest of Israel, all of them, a holy nation, will be holy priests to the whole world. Gentile Christians will be holy priests in other nations that are not judged as goat nations that abused Israel.

This priesthood comes with great responsibility and terms of conditions in that letter. Our priesthood is not carnal, not fleshly like the old Mosaic which men had their living from tithes. New Testament saints are not told to live off tithes, else every believer eat their own seed and have nothing left to take the gospel to the world. Our priesthood is not one that lives and works at a central temple, never going anywhere, but ministering to the temple. Our prime directive is Mark 16:15 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Turning the tithe inward for our own consumption would greatly hinder that commandment being fulfilled.

Most churches I know of tithe to other ministries out of their own congregation's tithe. Pastors tithe their own tithe to their church, and together and separately to other ministries. Of course, that applies to those who are actively engaged in the Great Commission with all their might, not just agreeing in principle. Priests that don't carry out their duties are not worthy of support.

Eating our own tithe is not scriptural, in fact could be a mocking, however much a practicing priest we might be.

The original basis of God giving men wealth was for one purpose, which hasn't changed. Deuteronomy 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

That's a dynamic heavenly principle applicable to all who are under commandment to spread his covenant, which now is the New Covenant in Christ.

There's a balance in all this, a common ground for all to live on. Jesus didn't make his disciples comfortable in one place, but sent them out two by two to preach the gospel, not to take money or any extras, but their needs to be met by free will offering of the people they visit. Those were mostly Jews in those days, people who knew to tithe in addition to going above that. The disciples were to locate "worthy" households, staying in one house while ministering in that town.

There are many blessings from doing such things. We've hosted many ministers in our home, taken in one that was severely injured in a vehicle crash. The fellowship is the prize. Our most memorable was a young man from India named Satish P. Kumar, struggling pastor of 25 back in Hyderabad, visiting us twice looking for support. His sermon at our church broke the record for special offering, with some of us committed to monthly financial support. He doesn't visit us here anymore, as he is now pastor of Calvary Temple there with over 50,000 members, and preaches to most of Asia on satellite TV. We're part of that great blessing there.

A point I'm trying to make is I don't receive a dime of tithes for any ministering, in 30 years time giving in to accepting $100 special offering from a tiny Baptist church, which I gave in full at my church. The idea is to be plugged in to the Great Commission with all your might, getting in on mega spiritual blessings most people only dream about. The tithe, in that manner, does open up the windows of heaven, which is not restricted to money, a good job, etc. It is opening the Kingdom wide open to us such that if you stop to evaluate it all, it can't be contained. Life becomes filled with awe and a searching for more ways to honor my Savior and Lord Jesus. I tithe because tithing is deeply associated with all the children of God, is a way to demonstrate to the Lord that I don't fear parting with something important to us all, but am delighted to participate in. Some of our windows have flowed with financial blessing as well as healing miracles. Unexpected inheritances have gone above our total earnings. Our appliances keep working, way out of style. Tires are not wearing out, going more than double the promised mileage, though looking a little scuffed up. I'm still wearing shoes to church that look new, feel great, bought 25 years ago.

We are not tithing to be blessed, but to bless others. We will do our part to help a congregation accomplish the Great Commission by supporting a well planned budget all can count on to stay properly funded to do those works Jesus said to do. Am I commanded to tithe 10%? No. That commandment was to a stiff-necked people. Like Abraham I will honor God, along with many other earth shakers for the Lord.

Time to stop pecking on this phone....hope ya'll were in church today.

 

[Jason0047]

While it is good that a person can help those in need, movie actors (who hoard millions of dollars) do the same thing and their hearts are not right with the Lord.

There are two major problems I see here with the tithing issue.

#1. Tithe Proponents usually try and guilt trip you into tithing. They will provide examples of their own life, rather than pointing to New Testament Scripture. In fact, I went to a church where there were 2-3 quick brief talks in addition to the main sermon every week on some guilt trip pep talk for folks to give their money to them. However, this is not the prescription given to us in the New Testament Scriptures that say we are to give what we have purposed in our heart to give because God loves a cheerful giver. It is wrong to guilt trip people into giving you their money. Nowhere in the New Testament is such a practice prescribed. The priests never went to the Israelites and demanded 10%. So such a practice is not even in the Old Testament. Folks who guilt trip others to give should be ashamed of themselves. Giving is what God will call upon a believer's heart because they are changed spiritually. They will naturally preach the gospel, help the poor, and desire to help the true body of believers (if they can). They are not required to sell their house or their car or go into financial debt to help the church.

#2. Tithe Propopents will say you will be blessed financially back even more in your giving. This is a danger sign of falling prey to the prosperity gospel which is strictly forbidden concept in 1 Timothy chapter 6. God does not want us to chase after some money making scheme or plan so we can be rich. Many have pierced themselves thru with great sorrow in chasing after riches. Thinking that your giving will make you richer is wrong. God forbids us in hoarding riches and treasures for ourselves here on this Earth. Our focus should not be money but it should be in the natural giving of our hearts and lives in all we do. We are to use all our resources to the glory of God. It's as simple as that.


There is no tithing command in the New Testament. There is no practice of guilt tripping others to give you money. There is no teaching that that allows for a prosperity gospel within the Bible, either.

 

[Jason0047]

hope ya'll were in church today.

What if they were in a small prayer group to help someone who was sick instead of being at church that week? What if they gather in a small fellowship (Such as 2-3 of them) at a fast food place to study the Word and to spread the gospel, and minister to others? Does it have to be a church building with a denominational name? Did Paul attend church every week? You know, sometimes he was in prison and couldn't gather with other believers. Was Paul in trouble with God because he couldn't hold services because he was being persecuted for his faith?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Our priesthood as well as citizenship is of the heavenly. But we still live on earth in the flesh. Emphasizing priesthood ought to come well after emphasis on being a disciple of Christ. There's also prophecy attached to 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Peter was ministering to Jewish Christians in that letter. They will be part of a really big deal in Israel, not in America or anywhere else, when Jesus returns. Instead of their Levites ministering to the rest of Israel, all of them, a holy nation, will be holy priests to the whole world. Gentile Christians will be holy priests in other nations that are not judged as goat nations that abused Israel.

This priesthood comes with great responsibility and terms of conditions in that letter. Our priesthood is not carnal, not fleshly like the old Mosaic which men had their living from tithes. New Testament saints are not told to live off tithes, else every believer eat their own seed and have nothing left to take the gospel to the world. Our priesthood is not one that lives and works at a central temple, never going anywhere, but ministering to the temple. Our prime directive is Mark 16:15 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Turning the tithe inward for our own consumption would greatly hinder that commandment being fulfilled.

Most churches I know of tithe to other ministries out of their own congregation's tithe. Pastors tithe their own tithe to their church, and together and separately to other ministries. Of course, that applies to those who are actively engaged in the Great Commission with all their might, not just agreeing in principle. Priests that don't carry out their duties are not worthy of support.

Eating our own tithe is not scriptural, in fact could be a mocking, however much a practicing priest we might be.

The original basis of God giving men wealth was for one purpose, which hasn't changed. Deuteronomy 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

That's a dynamic heavenly principle applicable to all who are under commandment to spread his covenant, which now is the New Covenant in Christ.

There's a balance in all this, a common ground for all to live on. Jesus didn't make his disciples comfortable in one place, but sent them out two by two to preach the gospel, not to take money or any extras, but their needs to be met by free will offering of the people they visit. Those were mostly Jews in those days, people who knew to tithe in addition to going above that. The disciples were to locate "worthy" households, staying in one house while ministering in that town.

There are many blessings from doing such things. We've hosted many ministers in our home, taken in one that was severely injured in a vehicle crash. The fellowship is the prize. Our most memorable was a young man from India named Satish P. Kumar, struggling pastor of 25 back in Hyderabad, visiting us twice looking for support. His sermon at our church broke the record for special offering, with some of us committed to monthly financial support. He doesn't visit us here anymore, as he is now pastor of Calvary Temple there with over 50,000 members, and preaches to most of Asia on satellite TV. We're part of that great blessing there.

A point I'm trying to make is I don't receive a dime of tithes for any ministering, in 30 years time giving in to accepting $100 special offering from a tiny Baptist church, which I gave in full at my church. The idea is to be plugged in to the Great Commission with all your might, getting in on mega spiritual blessings most people only dream about. The tithe, in that manner, does open up the windows of heaven, which is not restricted to money, a good job, etc. It is opening the Kingdom wide open to us such that if you stop to evaluate it all, it can't be contained. Life becomes filled with awe and a searching for more ways to honor my Savior and Lord Jesus. I tithe because tithing is deeply associated with all the children of God, is a way to demonstrate to the Lord that I don't fear parting with something important to us all, but am delighted to participate in. Some of our windows have flowed with financial blessing as well as healing miracles. Unexpected inheritances have gone above our total earnings. Our appliances keep working, way out of style. Tires are not wearing out, going more than double the promised mileage, though looking a little scuffed up. I'm still wearing shoes to church that look new, feel great, bought 25 years ago.

We are not tithing to be blessed, but to bless others. We will do our part to help a congregation accomplish the Great Commission by supporting a well planned budget all can count on to stay properly funded to do those works Jesus said to do. Am I commanded to tithe 10%? No. That commandment was to a stiff-necked people. Like Abraham I will honor God, along with many other earth shakers for the Lord.

Time to stop pecking on this phone....hope ya'll were in church today.

9*But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10*Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Time past not a people applies to gentiles don't you think?

 

[RickyZ]

While it is good that a person can help those in need, movie actors (who hoard millions of dollars) do the same thing and their hearts are not right with the Lord.

There are two major problems I see here with the tithing issue.

#1. Tithe Proponents usually try and guilt trip you into tithing. They will provide examples of their own life, rather than pointing to New Testament Scripture. In fact, I went to a church where there were 2-3 quick brief talks in addition to the main sermon every week on some guilt trip pep talk for folks to give their money to them. However, this is not the prescription given to us in the New Testament Scriptures that say we are to give what we have purposed in our heart to give because God loves a cheerful giver. It is wrong to guilt trip people into giving you their money. Nowhere in the New Testament is such a practice prescribed. The priests never went to the Israelites and demanded 10%. So such a practice is not even in the Old Testament. Folks who guilt trip others to give should be ashamed of themselves. Giving is what God will call upon a believer's heart because they are changed spiritually. They will naturally preach the gospel, help the poor, and desire to help the true body of believers (if they can). They are not required to sell their house or their car or go into financial debt to help the church.

#2. Tithe Propopents will say you will be blessed financially back even more in your giving. This is a danger sign of falling prey to the prosperity gospel which is strictly forbidden concept in 1 Timothy chapter 6. God does not want us to chase after some money making scheme or plan so we can be rich. Many have pierced themselves thru with great sorrow in chasing after riches. Thinking that your giving will make you richer is wrong. God forbids us in hoarding riches and treasures for ourselves here on this Earth. Our focus should not be money but it should be in the natural giving of our hearts and lives in all we do. We are to use all our resources to the glory of God. It's as simple as that.


There is no tithing command in the New Testament. There is no practice of guilt tripping others to give you money. There is no teaching that that allows for a prosperity gospel within the Bible, either.

As a functionalist (one who looks more to how something actually functions), I take exception to your point no. 2. Those I know who tithe are consistently blessed financially for it (I know that from even my own experience). So there has to be something behind the concept, and therefore reason to do it. But you are right in your assertion that one must do it outside of the expectation that it will make you rich. Again it goes to your heart. If you give to help others you will be blessed. If you give to just receive then not so much. Kinda makes me examine my motives, at times when money is tight I think gee I must not be giving enough. But I usually think that more out of Biblical principal than just hey I need money. The point is, those who faithfully tithe receive blessings for doing so. So while we may not be required to do so under the old law, there is still Biblical principals behind doing it out of generosity of heart.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Of course those who tithe will be blessed with whatthey plant...that is their reward.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Galatians 6:6-8King James Version (KJV)

6*Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

7*Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8*For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

 

[Jason0047]

As a functionalist (one who looks more to how something actually functions), I take exception to your point no. 2. Those I know who tithe are consistently blessed financially for it (I know that from even my own experience). So there has to be something behind the concept, and therefore reason to do it. But you are right in your assertion that one must do it outside of the expectation that it will make you rich. Again it goes to your heart. If you give to help others you will be blessed. If you give to just receive then not so much. Kinda makes me examine my motives, at times when money is tight I think gee I must not be giving enough. But I usually think that more out of Biblical principal than just hey I need money. The point is, those who faithfully tithe receive blessings for doing so. So while we may not be required to do so under the old law, there is still Biblical principals behind doing it out of generosity of heart.

I agree that things taught in the Bible have to function and work in the real world. Hence, it is why Jesus gave us real world examples (parables) to illustrate spiritual truths. However, we also have to understand that the devil will deceive many with false miracles in the end times, too. Mormons say they feel a burning feeling in their stomach when they perform the right religious action. Just because a person appears to receive good things in return because they tithed does not mean it is God at work in every and all cases. Yes, you will reap what you sow. But we also have to understand that many of the apostles were poor, suffered, in prison, persecuted, and killed for their faith. The concept of giving to be a blessed does not jive with the apostles lives or even Christ's life. Christ did not give so as to be blessed. Christ gave of Himself to be a blessing to others. That is also the example of the apostles, too. They followed in his footsteps. There is no example of tithing so as to be blessed amongst Christ and the apostles. We walk by faith and not by sight. We do not see how God's plan of good will prevail when we follow His way instead of our own with our own two eyes. Job essentially demanded to know why he suffered so much. But did God give him an answer? No. God just told Job how great and marvelous His wonderous works are. Meaning, God was trying to say that God was in control and that He had a plan in everything He did that Job could not see. This is a part of our walk by faith (Sight unseen). Trusting God and His Word despite what we see in this world and how it operates. Tithing with the expectation you will be blessed in return is trusting in a religious performance on your part so as to get a return on your investment. Believers do not act so as to get a return. True believers seek to give with no thought of wanting anything back. They want to be a blessing to others. They want to glorify Christ and lived as He did by conforming to His image and or life.

 

[Jason0047]

Luke 6:35
"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."

In other words, the reward is a spiritual one by faith and it is a not with the seeking of a physical reward or some immediate (instant gratification type) return.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Luke 6:35
"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."

In other words, the reward is a spiritual one by faith and it is a not with the seeking of a physical reward or some immediate (instant gratification type) return.

Amen. Prosperity gospel is true according to spirit perspective...but still...gotta plant spiritual to recieve spiritual prosperity.

 

[Jeff_56]

the last truth being restored to the believers/ ekklesia (even though already known by many in other countries around the world,
is voluntary (and necessary) poverty. (as in "they claimed nothing as their own" . period.) and ("if you want to be my disciple...." )....

they don't even think of tithing, ever.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Yup...the high priesthood does not tithe to itself, and we are so glad that God is our inheritance.

 

[RickyZ]

I agree that things taught in the Bible have to function and work in the real world. Hence, it is why Jesus gave us real world examples (parables) to illustrate spiritual truths. However, we also have to understand that the devil will deceive many with false miracles in the end times, too. Mormons say they feel a burning feeling in their stomach when they perform the right religious action. Just because a person appears to receive good things in return because they tithed does not mean it is God at work in every and all cases. Yes, you will reap what you sow. But we also have to understand that many of the apostles were poor, suffered, in prison, persecuted, and killed for their faith. The concept of giving to be a blessed does not jive with the apostles lives or even Christ's life. Christ did not give so as to be blessed. Christ gave of Himself to be a blessing to others. That is also the example of the apostles, too. They followed in his footsteps. There is no example of tithing so as to be blessed amongst Christ and the apostles. We walk by faith and not by sight. We do not see how God's plan of good will prevail when we follow His way instead of our own with our own two eyes. Job essentially demanded to know why he suffered so much. But did God give him an answer? No. God just told Job how great and marvelous His wonderous works are. Meaning, God was trying to say that God was in control and that He had a plan in everything He did that Job could not see. This is a part of our walk by faith (Sight unseen). Trusting God and His Word despite what we see in this world and how it operates. Tithing with the expectation you will be blessed in return is trusting in a religious performance on your part so as to get a return on your investment. Believers do not act so as to get a return. True believers seek to give with no thought of wanting anything back. They want to be a blessing to others. They want to glorify Christ and lived as He did by conforming to His image and or life.

Luke 6: 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

The concept of giving to be blessed is indeed scriptural. But that shouldn't be our motive in giving.

 

[Ukorin]

Our priesthood as well as citizenship is of the heavenly. But we still live on earth in the flesh. Emphasizing priesthood ought to come well after emphasis on being a disciple of Christ. There's also prophecy attached to 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Peter was ministering to Jewish Christians in that letter. They will be part of a really big deal in Israel, not in America or anywhere else, when Jesus returns. Instead of their Levites ministering to the rest of Israel, all of them, a holy nation, will be holy priests to the whole world. Gentile Christians will be holy priests in other nations that are not judged as goat nations that abused Israel.

This priesthood comes with great responsibility and terms of conditions in that letter. Our priesthood is not carnal, not fleshly like the old Mosaic which men had their living from tithes. New Testament saints are not told to live off tithes, else every believer eat their own seed and have nothing left to take the gospel to the world. Our priesthood is not one that lives and works at a central temple, never going anywhere, but ministering to the temple. Our prime directive is Mark 16:15 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Turning the tithe inward for our own consumption would greatly hinder that commandment being fulfilled.

Most churches I know of tithe to other ministries out of their own congregation's tithe. Pastors tithe their own tithe to their church, and together and separately to other ministries. Of course, that applies to those who are actively engaged in the Great Commission with all their might, not just agreeing in principle. Priests that don't carry out their duties are not worthy of support.

Eating our own tithe is not scriptural, in fact could be a mocking, however much a practicing priest we might be.

The original basis of God giving men wealth was for one purpose, which hasn't changed. Deuteronomy 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

That's a dynamic heavenly principle applicable to all who are under commandment to spread his covenant, which now is the New Covenant in Christ.

There's a balance in all this, a common ground for all to live on. Jesus didn't make his disciples comfortable in one place, but sent them out two by two to preach the gospel, not to take money or any extras, but their needs to be met by free will offering of the people they visit. Those were mostly Jews in those days, people who knew to tithe in addition to going above that. The disciples were to locate "worthy" households, staying in one house while ministering in that town.

There are many blessings from doing such things. We've hosted many ministers in our home, taken in one that was severely injured in a vehicle crash. The fellowship is the prize. Our most memorable was a young man from India named Satish P. Kumar, struggling pastor of 25 back in Hyderabad, visiting us twice looking for support. His sermon at our church broke the record for special offering, with some of us committed to monthly financial support. He doesn't visit us here anymore, as he is now pastor of Calvary Temple there with over 50,000 members, and preaches to most of Asia on satellite TV. We're part of that great blessing there.

A point I'm trying to make is I don't receive a dime of tithes for any ministering, in 30 years time giving in to accepting $100 special offering from a tiny Baptist church, which I gave in full at my church. The idea is to be plugged in to the Great Commission with all your might, getting in on mega spiritual blessings most people only dream about. The tithe, in that manner, does open up the windows of heaven, which is not restricted to money, a good job, etc. It is opening the Kingdom wide open to us such that if you stop to evaluate it all, it can't be contained. Life becomes filled with awe and a searching for more ways to honor my Savior and Lord Jesus. I tithe because tithing is deeply associated with all the children of God, is a way to demonstrate to the Lord that I don't fear parting with something important to us all, but am delighted to participate in. Some of our windows have flowed with financial blessing as well as healing miracles. Unexpected inheritances have gone above our total earnings. Our appliances keep working, way out of style. Tires are not wearing out, going more than double the promised mileage, though looking a little scuffed up. I'm still wearing shoes to church that look new, feel great, bought 25 years ago.

We are not tithing to be blessed, but to bless others. We will do our part to help a congregation accomplish the Great Commission by supporting a well planned budget all can count on to stay properly funded to do those works Jesus said to do. Am I commanded to tithe 10%? No. That commandment was to a stiff-necked people. Like Abraham I will honor God, along with many other earth shakers for the Lord.

Time to stop pecking on this phone....hope ya'll were in church today.

If it is not the command that you follow, then stop calling it a "tithe".
If it is simply "giving", and freely so, then it is not seperable from any "special offering".
You spent much of that post testifying to the power of special offerings and giving to specific needs, and then deny your own witness by saying this supports "tithe".

The issue is this thought of: a tithe going to ministers, and offerings going to ministries. That is not the Law we are under.
Whenever you give to a Believer, you are giving to a minister of Christ. We give in accordance to what we feel called to give, which will always be more to those who have ministered to us individually, and to the ministries that have impacted us most (our pastors and our local congregations)

Giving/teaching a base percentage minimum is not needed. If we instruct others in generosity, especially by living it out, then the teaching of tithe is no longer needed, because the spirit of tithe (which is the spirit of giving) would be written on their hearts, rather than simply a law/guideline to follow.

 

[Ukorin]

We don't live under the Law, but we establish it.
It is fulfilled when we truly love our God and our brethren.
We are no longer under the guideline, as we have the Guide living within us.

Would I rebuke a brother who has enough, yet is not giving accordingly? Yes. But not with reference to tithe. Such a reference is unneeded, and purely a distraction from the root issue.

 

[Jason0047]

Luke 6: 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

The concept of giving to be blessed is indeed scriptural. But that shouldn't be our motive in giving.

Again, there is no guarantee that you will always be blessed in this life. Most apostles faced persecution, prison, and many great hardships to the point of death for their faith. Even Christ who was the perfect giver did not receive great blessings before the point of his death. Christ gave to be a blessing to us. So this verse is not necessarily a guarantee that you will be repaid here. Yes, there are believers where this is the case, but not in every and all cases, though. Especially seeing Christ and the early apostles faced many hardships. They are the benchmark of how we are to live. For Christ told us that if any man will come after Him, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and folllow Him. For Paul said, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." So the thinking that you must be blessed here in this life is just not always true if you are living life like an apostle who spread the good news like they did. For the Scriptures say all who live Godly will suffer persecution. The Scriptures do not say all who tithe will be blessed greatly in this life; And you would be dead wrong for supporting the concept of tithing because most who do believe in it play the guilt trip tactic of trying to get folks to tithe. They also teach that you will prosper even greater for tithing (Even when you do not have it to give). This is wrong and evil. Giving is what God calls upon your heart to give because you like being cheerful giver because you are changed spiritually and because you are thankful for what God has done for you. Giving is not done out of compulsion or obligation or because some religious person is trying to guilt trip you into giving a percentage of your income. All of what we have is God's already. So it is only natural that a true believer will focus everything they own towards the glory of God's kingdom.

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, you can give to God in many ways. It doesn't always have to be writing a check for a certain amount to your favorite church every week. You can give by helping the poor guy who hangs down the street. You can give by devoting your time and money to help the children in your church. You can give things to prisons. Help those who are suffering. There are many ways to give to God. You can start a tract ministry. You can buy Bibles and give them out to people.

Granted, this does not mean you hold onto hoards of cash for yourself and say it is yours. What this means is that we are not commanded to tithe a certain amount of our income under the New Testament. What this means is that we will give of what we have after we have provided the basics for ourselves and our family. Any extra money beyond that can be focused towards God's Kingdom in some way. Not out of compulsion but out of what God is calling us to give.

 

[Jason0047]

We don't live under the Law, but we establish it.
It is fulfilled when we truly love our God and our brethren.
We are no longer under the guideline, as we have the Guide living within us.

Would I rebuke a brother who has enough, yet is not giving accordingly? Yes. But not with reference to tithe. Such a reference is unneeded, and purely a distraction from the root issue.

I don't think there is room to judge another person's financial situation in giving unless you know they make 100,000 a year, live in a low income place, and are debt free. If they are driving around fancy sports cars and have a giant mansion, then there is a problem. However, to just judge a person's financial situation is wrong (Even when you might know how much they make). For example: Folks have criticized Ray Comfort for paying himself too much. But what many folks don't realize is that he lives in California. Anyone who has lived in certain parts of California knows firsthand it is not easy to survive there financially. Want a house in the San Fran area? Forget it. You have to be a millionaire to own one or be placed on an endlessly long waiting list. So I would not judge anothers financial situation unless it seems obvious that they have many great treasures for themselves that are being used for their own personal pleasure rather than for the glory of God. Yes, I don't believe a believer can be a rich man and make it into Heaven, either. Meaning, we are told to distribute and or give what we have so as not to be rich. But we are not talking about believers who are just getting by here. We cannot judge a person's situation without having concrete facts that they are living wrong financially.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't think there is room to judge another person's financial situation in giving unless you know they make 100,000 a year, live in a low income place, and are debt free. If they are driving around fancy sports cars and have a giant mansion, then there is a problem. However, to just judge a person's financial situation is wrong (Even when you might know how much they make). For example: Folks have criticized Ray Comfort for paying himself too much. But what many folks don't realize is that he lives in California. Anyone who has lived in certain parts of California knows firsthand it is not easy to survive there financially. Want a house in the San Fran area? Forget it. You have to be a millionaire to own one or be placed on an endlessly long waiting list. So I would not judge anothers financial situation unless it seems obvious that they have many great treasures for themselves that are being used for their own personal pleasure rather than for the glory of God. Yes, I don't believe a believer can be a rich man and make it into Heaven, either. Meaning, we are told to distribute and or give what we have so as not to be rich. But we are not talking about believers who are just getting by here. We cannot judge a person's situation without having concrete facts that they are living wrong financially.

In other words, if a believer is boasting how well they doing financially and they talk about the nice boat they just bought and they are not giving any money to the church, then there is a problem. But I would pray for him with other believers and I would not guilt trip him into giving to the church. Guilt tripping people to give goes against the very concept of what giving is all about. We are called to give what God has purposed in our heart to give and not out of compulsion. To put it to you another way, if someone is telling you to give, it is not really giving if you are giving just because someone is making you feel guilty in giving. This is what tithe proponents do. They guilt trip you into giving a certain amount of money to a church (Whether you have it or not). This is wrong.

 

[RickyZ]

Again, there is no guarantee that you will always be blessed in this life.

Oh yes, you're absolutely right and I didn't mean to give the impression I thought all the blessings of giving would be in this life. Frankly I'd just as soon bank them for the other side, where they will do the most good

In other words, you can give to God in many ways. It doesn't always have to be writing a check for a certain amount to your favorite church every week. You can give by helping the poor guy who hangs down the street. You can give by devoting your time and money to help the children in your church. You can give things to prisons. Help those who are suffering. There are many ways to give to God. You can start a tract ministry. You can buy Bibles and give them out to people.

You know, it's easy to give money. Write the check and be done with it. Yeah, giving a bag of groceries to the homeless guy down the street, giving your time to a ministry or charity, visiting the incarcerated of all types - those are the hard things to give, and the gifts I believe God honors most. Money belongs to Caesar. The heart belongs to God.

Still, I don't think it's a bad thought, that perhaps things are tight because we're not giving enough. May or may not be the case but I wouldn't want to exclude the possibility.