Tired of the Big LIE

Utah · Feb 8, 2015

DC, what you've shared is a breath of fresh air (and happens to be Gospel Truth).

Thank you, Brother.

newbirth · Feb 8, 2015

and here is the security of the believer...Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;...

2 Corinthians 10:4-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

if you consider trust to be the the same as obedience and not the act of obedience itself as obedience then we have s problem
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

and through the Spirit we bring the body/flesh under subjection.. so while you are in this flesh you obey/follow the Spirit....if you do you will not sin....the Spirit will not lead you to sin...so it is evident that when a man sins he is definitely not following the Spirit...
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Peter 4:1-3King James Version (KJV)
4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

of course you do not teach that....but by your teaching you have removed the penalty from sin...and made it possible for one to abide in Christ with sin....James is clear men are tempted after he is drawn away...a man cannot sin in Christ...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

so based on the preceding...if you sin it means you are outside Christ and if you do not confess and be forgiven of your sins .....when sin is finished it brings death....if one should die in that position of sin...can they still be saved in Christ??....if they can then we are free to sin because we will be saved anyway...

of course the scripture say that....but the scripture also says ..
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

what you are saying is God does not do a good job of cleansing....I believe God does a better job of cleansing than I do of sinning...
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

I guess I would feel the same way too....but a little leaven does leaven the whole lump....

RickyZ · Feb 8, 2015

So dcon lamented a lie spread by some non osas'ers, that osas'ers teach a license to sin. I'll buy that and say that no, osas'ers don't preach such a thing. That is indeed a big lie.

But let's let the pendulum swing to the other side and expose another lie, this time one presented by the osas'ers. That is the lie that those who understand the difference between losing something and giving it away promote fear and a works-based salvation. That is as much a lie as the license to sin claim is.

I can only imagine what God thinks of us liars on both sides.

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

newbirth said:

and here is the security of the believer...Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;...

2 Corinthians 10:4-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

if you consider trust to be the the same as obedience and not the act of obedience itself as obedience then we have s problem
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

and through the Spirit we bring the body/flesh under subjection.. so while you are in this flesh you obey/follow the Spirit....if you do you will not sin....the Spirit will not lead you to sin...so it is evident that when a man sins he is definitely not following the Spirit...
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Peter 4:1-3King James Version (KJV)
4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[SUP]2[/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

of course you do not teach that....but by your teaching you have removed the penalty from sin...and made it possible for one to abide in Christ with sin....James is clear men are tempted after he is drawn away...a man cannot sin in Christ...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

so based on the preceding...if you sin it means you are outside Christ and if you do not confess and be forgiven of your sins .....when sin is finished it brings death....if one should die in that position of sin...can they still be saved in Christ??....if they can then we are free to sin because we will be saved anyway...

of course the scripture say that....but the scripture also says ..
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

what you are saying is God does not do a good job of cleansing....I believe God does a better job of cleansing than I do of sinning...
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

I guess I would feel the same way too....but a little leaven does leaven the whole lump....

The teaching of being eternally saved does NOT alleviate the penalty of sin.....GOD chastens (whips) every child that he receives which can include the following....

1. The loss of reward
2. Disease
3. Physical death

That is what you guys fail to understand.....a child is a child by birth and that can never change....when a child gets out of line God fires their (butt) up through chastisement and if a child refuses to acknowledge chastisement God will just take their physical life and bring them home......is it not hat difficult to understand.......!

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

RickyZ said:

Really, deductive reasoning leads one to understand and believe the following....

If I can lose my salvation, what must I DO to keep it or gain it back?

So answer the question.....If you can loose salvation, how do you get it back and what must you do...Hebrews teaches it is IMPOSSIBLE to be renewed because you put Christ to OPEN shame while putting him back on the cross.....

If one can lose salvation...Then EVERYONE will cook.....

SO Ricky.....what can you do to regain and or keep salvation if you can lose it.......?

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Yeah and Romans teaches that Abraham was/is justified by faith without works...the problem is the inability by those who trust in themselves and their works...they fail to understand that JAMES speaks of our faith be evidenced BEFORE OTHER MEN by the things that we do while rejecting and IGNORING that it is our FAITH that JUSTIFIES us before GOD with OUT the deeds of the law and or works......The bible does not contradict and to use JAMES to prove a works based salvation CONTRADICTS ROMANS and a FAITH BASED salvation and justification......

IT is the perfect faith of JESUS CHRIST that saves us and justifies us even while being SINNERS in the PRESENT TENSE....

GALATIANS teaches that FAITH+WORKS is a heretical, cursed gospel of a different kind, has no power to save and or keep saved and is double cursed by GOD dia PAUL to hell!

Romans...A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (works)

Romans 3:20, 3:22, 3:24 and chapter 4:6...Galatians 2:16-21

kennethcadwell · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

The problem is with your statement though is that not all OSAS believers follow what you say.
I have gone and visited and been apart of some OSAS believing churches from the 80's to now days that do believe you can live however they want which includes willful sins and still be saved. They taught a mere believism gospel that belief only saves, and there is no need to follow and obey what the Lord said which is completely false biblical teaching. There was a big wake up call to the churches in the late 80's through the 90's on this errant teaching.

To say all OSAS believers believe this is a lie, however there are OSAS churches that do still believe and follow this lie that a person can live however they want and keep salvation. To deny that their are is also a lie.
Just like Baptist churches can not all say they believe the same way, as there are some Southern Baptist churches that will not let men come to church unless they are in a suit and tie, and women in a dress. They try and state that you are defiling the temple if you don't come nicely dressed like that. But other Baptist churches teach the true bible stance of come as you are, as we are not to discriminate by outer appearance.

It is amazing that people still think all people of the same denominational belief system all believe the same thing. You do realize that not all Catholics even follow the same principles, as some Catholic priests have even came out and spoken against the pope.

Now as for the other thing you mentioned that I seen on another posting in your blog about the results of our sins. I side with you on the fact that there is consequences for sins as conviction, chastening, diseases, unhealthy lifestyle, and so on.......However I will disagree with you on the physical death part, as we are all appointed to physical death in the flesh from Adams sin, not our own. The death that we are appointed to keep from facing by our faith, which consists of believing in Him and following what He said is the second death; spiritual death in the lake of fire.

If in our faith if we continue to obey and follow Him/His teachings then we will be part of the 1st Resurrection (eternal life), in which the 2nd Resurrection has no power over us (spiritual death).

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

The problem is with your statement though is that not all OSAS believers follow what you say.
I have gone and visited and been apart of some OSAS believing churches from the 80's to now days that do believe you can live however they want which includes willful sins and still be saved. They taught a mere believism gospel that belief only saves, and there is no need to follow and obey what the Lord said which is completely false biblical teaching. There was a big wake up call to the churches in the late 80's through the 90's on this errant teaching.

To say all OSAS believers believe this is a lie, however there are OSAS churches that do still believe and follow this lie that a person can live however they want and keep salvation. To deny that their are is also a lie.
Just like Baptist churches can not all say they believe the same way, as there are some Southern Baptist churches that will not let men come to church unless they are in a suit and tie, and women in a dress. They try and state that you are defiling the temple if you don't come nicely dressed like that. But other Baptist churches teach the true bible stance of come as you are, as we are not to discriminate by outer appearance.

It is amazing that people still think all people of the same denominational belief system all believe the same thing. You do realize that not all Catholics even follow the same principles, as some Catholic priests have even came out and spoken against the pope.

Now as for the other thing you mentioned that I seen on another posting in your blog about the results of our sins. I side with you on the fact that there is consequences for sins as conviction, chastening, diseases, unhealthy lifestyle, and so on.......However I will disagree with you on the physical death part, as we are all appointed to physical death in the flesh from Adams sin, not our own. The death that we are appointed to keep from facing by our faith, which consists of believing in Him and following what He said is the second death; spiritual death in the lake of fire.

If in our faith if we continue to obey and follow Him/His teachings then we will be part of the 1st Resurrection (eternal life), in which the 2nd Resurrection has no power over us (spiritual death).

The bolded is incorrect based upon three truths.....

1. The word ALL is not found in the text.....It is appointed unto men once to die....
2. NOT ALL WILL die....WE which are ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye.....
3. God has consistently used premature physical death throughout history to punish those who have sinned while yet being identified with the children of God

The rest I understand as Free Will BAPTIST and GENERAL Baptist believe you can loose your salvation.....

newbirth · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

newbirth said:

you are saying in the end they still receive eternal life....if this is so ...eternal life is enough reward for me.....we have doctors for diseases ...and we all die eventually...so one can sin as much as they like(even hate a brother) and still have eternal life abiding in them...
...you changed the penalty for sin from death to....

and you also conclude that one can sin in Christ...there can be no sin in Christ...so where is that sin committed??? the believer who sin can only do so when they are drawn away....it is the wayward sheep that gets the leg broken...it doesn't happen if he remains in the flock...if your child by birth commits murder and the penalty is death...and you are the judge..... is he saved from death because he is your child???

God did not spare the angels that let their first estate.....

Jude 1:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

As usual you jump as far left as you can jump with your conclusions and erroneous applications to what I have said........

The punishments given to the angels that sinned and regenerated human beings is not comparable......

If death and hell is the result of sin in a believers life then what is the purpose for chastisement being leveled at believers as Hebrews teaches?

Open your eyes man!

newbirth said:

dcontroversal said:

kennethcadwell · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

You are using a future event of the rapture/gathering together/resurrection, however you may want to word it, to get around the fact that until that happens all people are appointed to physical death in the flesh do to Adams sin.
So your statement in #2 is only based on the timing of the rapture. If the rapture does not happen for say another 100 years, which I don't believe it will be that long away, you, I, and everybody else that is alive right now will die in the flesh.

We are called to follow Him and His teaching in our faith to escape the second death, which is spiritual death in the lake of fire. We can not escape physical death unless the Lord comes back to gather us in the catching away. Besides the gathering or catching away their is absolutely no other biblical scriptures that say you will escape physical death in the flesh.

If you are disobeying God, and you die you will not be given eternal life after that point. That is a false unbiblical way of thinking, for the Lord clearly says in Luke 12 that if He comes and finds you being disobedient to His will/teachings he will appoint those a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers. You can not be saved after death, if you were disobedient while in the flesh.

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

This is why you are unteachable....I gave you a direct scripture that does not use the word ALL, of the which you interject the word ALL....I gave you a second scripture which contradicts your use of ALL, of the which you reject and a third point which is easily proven by the bible and you reject it....Kenneth there is nothing more to say to you...you consistently reject truth that contradicts what you believe and teach while ADDING words that are not there to support you view.....

YOU will never know the truth until you take a step back and acknowledge the truth EVER!

It is appointed unto men once to die<-------THE WORD ALL is NOT THERE
We which are ALIVE AND REMAIN<-----ALIVE IS NOT DEAD

You would argue with a fence post that it was not a fence post........if it went against your view of a fence post!

newbirth · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

so do you agree with everything else???? so I will remove Jude...

posthuman · Feb 8, 2015

there is only one way i know to understand this passage:

And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

(Romans 4:5-8)

there is only one way to see this, and only one Way that saves -- that Way is alive, and has a name: Jesus of Nazareth. if you do not believe this Jesus, you cannot understand what Paul & David said.

He put a spirit in us saying "this is the way, walk in it"
i was lame and He put power in my legs to walk.
i was blind and He put light in my eyes to see.
i was an idiot and He put understanding in my mind to comprehend.

what righteous thing can i do that isn't by Him and through Him?
not me, Christ working in me!!

kennethcadwell · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

I did not reject anything you said, or anything the bible says as I came back and answered you with what the bible says.
As the changing in a twinkling of an eye refers to the rapture, gathering together, catching away. Until that event happens all who live between now and then will die in the flesh until it happens.

Yes I know the word all is not in that scripture, but you are trying to use educational tactics to prove yourself.
However if the rapture does not happen for another 100 years, you and I will die in the flesh because of Adams sin in the garden. Physical death in the flesh entered the world do to Adam.
We in our faith in the Lord follow Him and His teachings to escape spiritual death, because our sins cause us to be enmity (separated) from God. You can not be separated from Him, and be in Him to receive eternal life both.......

kennethcadwell · Feb 8, 2015

posthuman said:

Yes and Jesus in His own words tells us exactly what, "believe in Him" means;

Luke 6:47
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them.....

He does not say believe He existed, and do nothing from here on out. He repeats more then once to hear what He says and do them, obey them, walk in them.......

royalscot · Feb 8, 2015

when did anything we do, before or after believing, do away with, what god and jesus have already done for us.

Jesus Is Baptized
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."Luke 3:

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of GodJohn 3

"6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.30 I and the Father are one."John 10

royalscot · Feb 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

when did a new covenant start. when did someone tell a gentile, about jesus. when was a law debated about to give to the gentile.

posthuman · Feb 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

when i was lame, it wasn't up to me to walk.
He gave me legs.

when i was profane, it wasn't up to me to make myself holy.
He sprinkled me with His blood and made me clean.

when i loved sin, it wasn't up to me to change my heart.
He gave me a new one.

i ain't saying i don't try to do good and flee from evil.
i'm saying it's not me doing that - it's the life He put in me!

that's the lie in the OP - that refusing to take credit means i have no life.
the thing is, He opened my eyes to see it wasn't my righteousness at all - but His.
not me, the power of God working in me!

i could never reach Him, no matter how high i jumped -- He stepped down and picked me up

kennethcadwell · Feb 8, 2015

royalscot said:

Are you still stuck on that false teaching of when it was given to the gentiles matters, and that what the Lord said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John does not apply to us. Or do we have to literally take and post scripture for you to see how Paul, Peter, James, John, and the writer of Hebrews all confirm everything that the Lord said, as it applies to us as well. Because it is obvious that just giving you the words of the Lord in the Great Commission that says "all nations" are to obey everything He commanded/taught.

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