Tired of the Big LIE

[dcontroversal]

Nice way to avoid the obvious, heretic.

If you've ever feared a court-martial as a Marine, how is it that you don't fear God, heretic?

This just shows how moot your argument is......You have no clue what I fear and or don't fear...You have no clue about what I believe and or stand on...all you know is your own short sighted view...nor do you even know what the word you are using means....Go study it and then apply it to yourself......

So answer the context of Hebrews 10 and who it is pointed at..in particular the verse you yanked out of context to try and prove your false point!!!!!!

See, if you were to do this and be honest it would prove your stance is incorrect......so...until then keep putting out fluff!

 

[phil112]

For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....

The same thing can be said of your view on it. There is more scripture to support those who believe that one must keep the faith and stop sinning. As a matter of fact, that post sounds somewhat whiny, as if others should either see it your way or shut up. Lots of paragraphs and capitals make it seem like your pitching a fit. If you want to justify your desire to continually sin, that is between you and God. But if you think I should not mention that Christ said "go and sin no more", it ain't gonna happen.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is a modern argument. One that is false. Even the Father of the Prodigal Son admits that the Prodigal Son was dead. This is why the Jewish Faith has a rite of disowning. Because they do lose the face they are a member of the family, not because the family disowns the son, but because the son has disowned the family.

Another false statement...HE WAS PERCIEVED AS DEAD while he was ALIVE...go read it again......

 

[Lynx]

JesusistheChrist: That was just wrong. dc is saying what he believes is true. I disagree with what he believes but he is at least sincere. No reason to call people heretics. (There's enough of that in the Bible Discussions forum as it is...) >.>

 

[dcontroversal]

The same thing can be said of your view on it. There is more scripture to support those who believe that one must keep the faith and stop sinning. As a matter of fact, that post sounds somewhat whiny, as if others should either see it your way or shut up. Lots of paragraphs and capitals make it seem like your pitching a fit. If you want to justify your desire to continually sin, that is between you and God. But if you think I should not mention that Christ said "go and sin no more", it ain't gonna happen.

Well PHIL...I use capital letters being emphatic and YOU like everyone else who believes they can loose it WRONGLY assume that I use this to justify anything......and thanks...Your statement PROVES the point of the OP.........THANKS!<--all caps

 

[JesusistheChrist]

If they started out as someone who has received the Holy Spirit into their soul.. then backslid-- yah they are still saved. There lifestyle doesn't determine their eternal state because they have been given eternal life to start with.

But someone who lives in open rebellion-- there has gotta be some questions over what happened in the first place. They aren't being thankful to the freedom giver.

Really for someone who is saved though- Christ's sacrifice is all sufficient.. they may go wayward.. but Christ has given them eternal life.

That is His commitment.

When your children go into open rebellion against you.. they don't lose the fact they are a member of your family in the first place.

Nice human reasoning...without a shred of scripture to back the same.

 

[Lynx]

If they started out as someone who has received the Holy Spirit into their soul.. then backslid-- yah they are still saved. There lifestyle doesn't determine their eternal state because they have been given eternal life to start with.

But someone who lives in open rebellion-- there has gotta be some questions over what happened in the first place. They aren't being thankful to the freedom giver.

Really for someone who is saved though- Christ's sacrifice is all sufficient.. they may go wayward.. but Christ has given them eternal life.

That is His commitment.

When your children go into open rebellion against you.. they don't lose the fact they are a member of your family in the first place.

I was kinda hoping for a reply from dc, as he was the one who started the thread, but this would be a sufficient answer to my question. I disagree with it, but at least I understand it.

dcontroversal is this ^^^ what you believe?

 

[damombomb]

right. many churches and denominations create a harsh, mean God that really does not like you, really does not want to take you into his kingdom, so you better dot every I cross every t and I mean all the time. one slip, you could burn forever. not the God of the Bible.

Yes, back in the 70"s or so if a guy had long hair or if you sinned, not even a baby yet in Christ. You where going to hell.
JW think only 144, 000 are going. Thank God the Lord drew me to a Church where they preached the good news that sets
people free. I was completely turned off from all that garbage. The grace, (Good News) leads you out of religion and into
a relationship, where you are free to say ABBA, Father. Then people try to put you back under the law. I do not want
to grieve the Holy Spirit, nor did my conversion happen in one day. It was precept upon precept, line upon line.
You are so free you can't shut up about him. That same love he bestows upon you ( your brokeness has been healed by
his love). But to grieve the Holy Spirit, he will let you know. Sin is not something you dwell on, because you dwell on him.
You are more likely only wanting to share his good news. What he has done for you, he will do for others

" 7But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

James 2:2
1My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. 2For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,"……4have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?…

 

[JesusistheChrist]

JesusistheChrist: That was just wrong. dc is saying what he believes is true. I disagree with what he believes but he is at least sincere. No reason to call people heretics. (There's enough of that in the Bible Discussions forum as it is...) >.>

Actually, if you read the scriptures which I just recently provided you in answer to your own question, then you would understand that there's a very valid reason for rightly labeling someone as a heretic:

Galatians chapter 5

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was kinda hoping for a reply from dc, as he was the one who started the thread, but this would be a sufficient answer to my question. I disagree with it, but at least I understand it.

dcontroversal is this ^^^ what you believe?

Thanks Lynx...below is what I posted to your question....I guess you missed it....

John said that if they go out from us they never were of us.....but lest we forget the Prodigal son went and squandered his inheritance by riotous living, was perceived as dead (while alive) and returns and is received as a child...The fact of his sonship remained true even though he was perceived as dead by his actions....A child of God is a child by birth....that cannot ever change...a child of God cannot LIVE A CONTINUAL LIFESTYLE OF SIN (does not mean they wont sin) and will always come back to God.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually, if you read the scriptures which I just recently provided you in answer to your own question, then you would understand that there's a very valid reason for rightly labeling someone as a heretic:

Galatians chapter 5

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I suggest a few things here...

1. Go back and read the OP because I do not promote living like this
2. Your moot argument proves the validity of the OP
3. The word heretic means opinionated one....so...apply it to yourself as well

 

[kennethcadwell]

Like you have a clue......HAHAHHAAHHHHHAH that made me laugh.......!

Well I just once again showed you a scripture from the bible, and you say I have no clue.
You used verse 19 with your reply, and I gave verse 18 that goes with it. You can not say that scripture refers to people who fall away from the faith do to hardships, trials, and issues in their life as such. When it is speaking of the spirit form of the antichrist in those that went out. If you want to say it does, then that means you are initially saying that all believers when they backslide in sin including yourself have the antichrist in them. Not so, so this scripture can not be about all who fall away !!!

 

[Lynx]

JesusistheChrist: Yes, that is what many debaters use to label those they disagree with as heretics. Doesn't make it right. I could pick out some things I disagree with you about and call you a heretic. Would you be one? Naaaah... you'd just assume I'm the heretic. I know how that game works.

dcontroversal: I saw your previous response, but wattie's reply answered my question more clearly. Thanks. I still disagree with you on this, but I'm not going to debate it. The reason I asked was because I've heard of some once-saved-always-saved who just label any backslider as "Well, he must not have been a christian in the first place, he was just acting the part for a while." That always seemed too convenient to me, like shooting the wounded so they wouldn't have to carry them back to the doctor at base. Glad you're not like that.

I'll pull my whiskered black nose out now and let the debate continue. Good luck with all the debaters. Might keep a blood pressure monitor on hand and take a break from this thread if it gets too high... I know that's what I'd do. =^.^=

 

[JesusistheChrist]

This just shows how moot your argument is......You have no clue what I fear and or don't fear...You have no clue about what I believe and or stand on...all you know is your own short sighted view...nor do you even know what the word you are using means....Go study it and then apply it to yourself......

So answer the context of Hebrews 10 and who it is pointed at..in particular the verse you yanked out of context to try and prove your false point!!!!!!

See, if you were to do this and be honest it would prove your stance is incorrect......so...until then keep putting out fluff!

Actually, I have much more than a "clue" as to Whom you don't fear in that "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" and you've been spewing your lack of the fear of God here for the longest time.

As far as the context of Hebrews chapter 10 is concerned, I just provided it for you and you, once again, willfully, stubbornly, defiantly and fearlessly shut your eyes to the same to your own potential destruction. Again, the "once for all sanctification" of which you spoke is followed IMMEDIATELY BY FEARFUL WARNINGS...whether you like it or not.

Listen, friend...

Your obstinance comes to an abrupt end at the Judgment Seat of Christ and you're not presently ready for the same. Repent now of your heresy before it is too late. At my end, I'll be innocent of your blood and likewise of the blood of all of those who hold to the same heresy which you so fearlessly and stubbornly teach in contrast to the Word of God and God Himself.

 

[Lynx]

And JesusistheChrist, you can be right and still be wrong. If you tried to argue with a child that there is no Santa, would you insult his mom for telling him there is? You would be right in that there is no Santa, but your arguments would be wrong.

Come to think of it... you just might insult the kid's mom. >.>

 

[JesusistheChrist]

JesusistheChrist: Yes, that is what many debaters use to label those they disagree with as heretics. Doesn't make it right. I could pick out some things I disagree with you about and call you a heretic. Would you be one? Naaaah... you'd just assume I'm the heretic. I know how that game works.

I can assure you that I'm not playing "games" here, friend.

If you believe that I'm presently teaching heresy or that I have previously taught the same, then simply present your case from scripture. If your case is valid, then I'd not only be more than happy to repent, but I'd also count you as my friend for pointing out the same to me.

Anyhow, our Marine friend is teaching heresy and I'm not going to sugarcoat anything for him or for anybody else for that matter.

 

[Sirk]

Actually, I have much more than a "clue" as to Whom you don't fear in that "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" and you've been spewing your lack of the fear of God here for the longest time.

As far as the context of Hebrews chapter 10 is concerned, I just provided it for you and you, once again, willfully, stubbornly, defiantly and fearlessly shut your eyes to the same to your own potential destruction. Again, the "once for all sanctification" of which you spoke is followed IMMEDIATELY BY FEARFUL WARNINGS...whether you like it or not.

Listen, friend...

Your obstinance comes to an abrupt end at the Judgment Seat of Christ and you're not presently ready for the same. Repent now of your heresy before it is too late. At my end, I'll be innocent of your blood and likewise of the blood of all of those who hold to the same heresy which you so fearlessly and stubbornly teach in contrast to the Word of God and God Himself.

Then you will be able to take your seat to the right of Jesus.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

And JesusistheChrist, you can be right and still be wrong. If you tried to argue with a child that there is no Santa, would you insult his mom for telling him there is? You would be right in that there is no Santa, but your arguments would be wrong.

Come to think of it... you just might insult the kid's mom. >.>

Telling somebody the truth isn't "insulting" them, friend.

Again, our Marine friend is teaching heresy and he is, therefore, a heretic.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Then you will be able to take your seat to the right of Jesus.

What's that supposed to mean?

Jesus will determine who sits where and my point simply was that I'll be innocent of dc's blood in that I've sought to warn him to turn from his heretical ways.

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually, I have much more than a "clue" as to Whom you don't fear in that "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" and you've been spewing your lack of the fear of God here for the longest time.

As far as the context of Hebrews chapter 10 is concerned, I just provided it for you and you, once again, willfully, stubbornly, defiantly and fearlessly shut your eyes to the same to your own potential destruction. Again, the "once for all sanctification" of which you spoke is followed IMMEDIATELY BY FEARFUL WARNINGS...whether you like it or not.

Listen, friend...

Your obstinance comes to an abrupt end at the Judgment Seat of Christ and you're not presently ready for the same. Repent now of your heresy before it is too late. At my end, I'll be innocent of your blood and likewise of the blood of all of those who hold to the same heresy which you so fearlessly and stubbornly teach in contrast to the Word of God and God Himself.

Blah blah blah is all I hear coming out of your mouth....keep on digging your hole and trusting into your works......blah blah blah