Tired of the Big LIE
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What many miss is that every sin except unbelief (into JESUS) has been nailed to the cross with JESUS and the FATHER reconciled the world unto himself before he ever cast it down in Jesus.....they also fail to understand that everyone sins in some form or fashion and is not above it.....if one could lose salvation there would be no need for chastisement as directed at the believer.......A son by birth...That will never change, although we can step out of line and get our butts whipped off by God that we might come back online!
J
*Wisely said; when we want to know Jesus, as new born babes there comes along the temptations, we often fall into it, for the scriptures say, surly the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, when we sin, and want to repent, We are forgiven, just as the prodigal son, but if we choose, to stray, that is a choice that the Lord says, it is our own decisions, to break off from him willingly, he says, Choose this day whom you will serve. Very sweetly, and wisely, gently said. Thank you, for sowing peace in wisdom. 
Galatians 2:16-21 states clearly that my salvation and justification is based upon the FAITH OF JESUS....<--JESUS cannot deny himself!
Is the faith of JESUS perfect? YES
Is the faith of Jesus ETERNAL? YES
Does the faith of JESUS ever fail? NO
Is the FAITH of JESUS acceptable unto the FATHER? YES
Does the faith of JESUS meet the Father's expectations? YES
I am SAVED by the PERFECT FAITH of JESUS....I am JUSTIFIED by the perfect faith of JESUS
To say you can lose salvation is to deny the above concerning the faith of JESUS.....
Is the faith of JESUS perfect? YES
Is the faith of Jesus ETERNAL? YES
Does the faith of JESUS ever fail? NO
Is the FAITH of JESUS acceptable unto the FATHER? YES
Does the faith of JESUS meet the Father's expectations? YES
I am SAVED by the PERFECT FAITH of JESUS....I am JUSTIFIED by the perfect faith of JESUS
To say you can lose salvation is to deny the above concerning the faith of JESUS.....
K
No holding something against somebody also means that you do not stop making false allegations against them to.
If you keep stating the same fallacies toward a person then that means you hold that against them. And yes I do believe one can lose salvation, because the bible and the early church leaders teach the same. As it states in the bible that only those who continue in the faith are given eternal life. It nowhere in the bible says a person can walk away from God, and keep eternal life. It even states that those who are disobedient are worse then unbelievers, and will be appointed with the unbelievers in the lake of fire.
Yes Galatians 2 does say that, that our salvation is based upon the faith in Jesus.....not faith of Jesus....
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
You are right the Lord our God never fails, but people can fail Him by not obeying, walking in love (Spirit), and denying Him by not following His teachings, commands, and helping others. And if you fail Him in disobedience then that one will not receive eternal life, but placed with the unbelievers in the lake of fire (Luke 12:46).
J
Moreso in regard to the latter, I would think. However, there are warnings in scripture which pertain to those who are hardened by the deceitfulness of sin and that and many other scriptures can and do apply to the former group as well. We all make mistakes, but we need to repent when we do and to bring forth works worthy of repentance.
T
DC, can a person who had faith in what Jesus did on the cross, then lose faith in what Jesus did on the cross and walk away from God and never return and die in their unbelief?
Are you stating that a Man like Charles Templeton was OSAS? despite the fact he publicly disavowed his faith in what Jesus did on the cross and rejected him?
I do not believe a person can lose their salvation based on not doing Christian works. tthat is works based salvation and nothing more than self righteousness and sin conciseness false doctrine.
I do believe that a person can do what Templeton did and you better believe he died in his unbelief and is now in hell, because he once believed he was saved by God's grace through his own faith, but his faith became shipwrecked and he lost it. His last book is titled: Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith.
I believe Templeton is proof positive of what the author of Heb 6.4-6 was telling us:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
IN summary, I do not believe in works based salvation or the salvation is a set of conditional works I must do to claim it. I believe we are saved by God's grace through our faith and that Jesus work on the cross and nothing= everything.
I do believe a son or daughter of God can walk away from salvation and lose their faith and if not won back will die in unbelief....Jesus told us unbelief in him is the unpardonable sin. Romans 10.9-10 tell us this as well.
The Bible shows us in very stunning detail, that unbelief and lack of faith in the Redemptive work Christ did on the cross is a sum zero game.
God's grace stops at unbelief, because without faith it is impossible to please Him.....period.
Works based conditional salvation predicated upon personal performance is a lie straight from hell as is OSAS.....walking away from your faith and cursing the redemptive work Jesus did on the cross is as Jesus stated to the pharisees....the unpardonable SIN.
Are you stating that a Man like Charles Templeton was OSAS? despite the fact he publicly disavowed his faith in what Jesus did on the cross and rejected him?
I do not believe a person can lose their salvation based on not doing Christian works. tthat is works based salvation and nothing more than self righteousness and sin conciseness false doctrine.
I do believe that a person can do what Templeton did and you better believe he died in his unbelief and is now in hell, because he once believed he was saved by God's grace through his own faith, but his faith became shipwrecked and he lost it. His last book is titled: Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith.
I believe Templeton is proof positive of what the author of Heb 6.4-6 was telling us:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
IN summary, I do not believe in works based salvation or the salvation is a set of conditional works I must do to claim it. I believe we are saved by God's grace through our faith and that Jesus work on the cross and nothing= everything.
I do believe a son or daughter of God can walk away from salvation and lose their faith and if not won back will die in unbelief....Jesus told us unbelief in him is the unpardonable sin. Romans 10.9-10 tell us this as well.
The Bible shows us in very stunning detail, that unbelief and lack of faith in the Redemptive work Christ did on the cross is a sum zero game.
God's grace stops at unbelief, because without faith it is impossible to please Him.....period.
Works based conditional salvation predicated upon personal performance is a lie straight from hell as is OSAS.....walking away from your faith and cursing the redemptive work Jesus did on the cross is as Jesus stated to the pharisees....the unpardonable SIN.
K
Well that is where you are wrong because the Lord said that they will be revealed in their own time.
Not that you or me will be given the truth of what it refers to, else wise all born again believers would know exactly what each unfulfilled prophecy in the book exactly refers to. Which is not the case, as that is why every believer has their own view tell it comes to pass. Even Daniel had to ask what he was shown meant, as he did not know on his own, and even when he was told he was told to seal it up tell the end days. You believe you are completely right, and others were completely wrong so you called them heretics. Which is not bible based to do when it comes to prophecy teaching......
J
True, some get a license to carry a gun, and do things and intimidate others with the fact that they have something, how*shameful*that a man would hide behind something, and not how himself as a real gentleman, but show a piece of metal, it is showing how men's hearts are cold, and hard, as rock, it is this very point that Jesus said, I will give you a human heart, and take the stoney one out. The cold stone, that*doesn't*feel anything, this is what is starting to happen, the HOly Spirit showed me the other day, that a plague has started a darkness, that even if we as believers need to turn up the light, get closer to the Lord, for the darkness is getting darker.
J
Once more, that's just your rewrite of what actually transpired on that thread. IOW, there are not only "mysteries" which an angel either "interpreted" for Daniel or John, but also many other prophetic utterances which have multiple descriptors attached to them which are explained for us elsewhere in scripture.
Anyhow, it's rather obvious to me that it wasn't enough for you that I walked away from that thread after having said all that I believe needed to be said, but that you're still hell bent on rehashing that whole discussion again with me.
I'm not biting, Kenneth, and this is my last response in relation to anything on that other thread. My comments there can be read in their entirety and in their actual context by anybody who is but interested in doing the same.
Now, can we get back to the actual topic of this thread or not?
Anyhow, it's rather obvious to me that it wasn't enough for you that I walked away from that thread after having said all that I believe needed to be said, but that you're still hell bent on rehashing that whole discussion again with me.
I'm not biting, Kenneth, and this is my last response in relation to anything on that other thread. My comments there can be read in their entirety and in their actual context by anybody who is but interested in doing the same.
Now, can we get back to the actual topic of this thread or not?
P
True, some get a license to carry a gun, and do things and intimidate others with the fact that they have something, how*shameful*that a man would hide behind something, and not how himself as a real gentleman, but show a piece of metal, it is showing how men's hearts are cold, and hard, as rock, it is this very point that Jesus said, I will give you a human heart, and take the stoney one out. The cold stone, that*doesn't*feel anything, this is what is starting to happen, the HOly Spirit showed me the other day, that a plague has started a darkness, that even if we as believers need to turn up the light, get closer to the Lord, for the darkness is getting darker.
leaving this particular thread, as it's going, seems like wisdom.
K
But some of the prophecies in the bible did not tell us exactly who or what they stood for, and was left to be revealed tell the end times.
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Not all prophecy is revealed to exactly who or what it is referring to to us, and we are told right here believers will run to and fro with what they believe it stands for until it actually comes to pass. Just like some biblical scholars believe the Lion first beast in Daniel 7 is Babylon, and others believe it to be Great Britain. And both fit by their own perspective outlooks, however another way to look at is that the beast in Revelation 13 shows this Lion as part of the beast system again. And Babylon no longer exists, but Mystery Babylon does who is not the same place or area as the original, plus the antichrist destroys her in Revelation.
I'm reminded of Martin Luther who at one time lived in torment at the thought of perhaps forgetting one single sin and failing to ask for forgiveness and suffering eternal consequences because of it. Ultimately he came to understand that God's grace is sufficient.
JIC, regarding your last sentence, I'm with you on the first two parts -- we all make mistakes, and we need to repent, but I struggle with with the last part of your statement -- bring forth works worthy of repentance. Is not having a truly repentant heart works enough? Key words being, truly repentant.
JIC, regarding your last sentence, I'm with you on the first two parts -- we all make mistakes, and we need to repent, but I struggle with with the last part of your statement -- bring forth works worthy of repentance. Is not having a truly repentant heart works enough? Key words being, truly repentant.
K
There is no need to live in torment when it comes to forgetting to ask for forgiveness of sins if one would follow the standards that the bible gives us through David and the Lord. As both give us prayers that covers all sins we commit, knowingly or unknowingly.......
[h=1]Psalm 19:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.
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[h=1]Matthew 6:9-13New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
I'll try to simplify the idea for those with tunnel vision:
1. You cannot lose your salvation.
2. God will never reject you
3. You, however, are free to reject God at any time.
4. Once you reject God you CANNOT be "resaved"
5. Those who walked with Christ for a while and then reject Him were part of us in this world ... but never so in the next.
6. Not all osas'ers preach a license to sin. Most are smart enough to know that we will still be judged according to our works.
7. Anyone who teaches a license to sin, I would ignore on all points of theology, because they are obviously blind deaf and dumb to the true word of God.
8. What do you do to make sure you keep your salvation? Simple. Don't reject God. That's it.
1. You cannot lose your salvation.
2. God will never reject you
3. You, however, are free to reject God at any time.
4. Once you reject God you CANNOT be "resaved"
5. Those who walked with Christ for a while and then reject Him were part of us in this world ... but never so in the next.
6. Not all osas'ers preach a license to sin. Most are smart enough to know that we will still be judged according to our works.
7. Anyone who teaches a license to sin, I would ignore on all points of theology, because they are obviously blind deaf and dumb to the true word of God.
8. What do you do to make sure you keep your salvation? Simple. Don't reject God. That's it.
J
Paul wrote the following in relation to his instructions which were given to CHRISTIANS at the church in Corinth and he did so not only for the cause of the one who had done the wrong (the man who was committing fornication with his father's wife) nor solely for the cause of the one who suffered the wrong (the man's father), but also that his care for the Corinthians in the sight of God might be made manifest unto them. IOW, it's caring to call CHRISTIANS unto repentance. Anyhow, here is how he defined repentance:
II Corinthians chapter 7
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
[11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
[12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
True repentance in the life of a CHRISTIAN ought to work carefulness in us in that we ought to be careful not to commit the same sin again, a genuine clearing of ourselves via repentance, indignation against that which we once allowed, fear as to never commit the same sin again, vehement desire to do what is right, zeal and even revenge.
I don't know about you, but to me that certainly sounds like bringing forth works or fruit worthy of repentance.
II Corinthians chapter 7
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
[11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
[12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
True repentance in the life of a CHRISTIAN ought to work carefulness in us in that we ought to be careful not to commit the same sin again, a genuine clearing of ourselves via repentance, indignation against that which we once allowed, fear as to never commit the same sin again, vehement desire to do what is right, zeal and even revenge.
I don't know about you, but to me that certainly sounds like bringing forth works or fruit worthy of repentance.
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