Stephen Fry on God - Oh the naivety of it

[Rudimental]

I just got done watching this video "Stephen Fry on God" and once again this guy has really annoyed me!

What an absolutely naive moron!!

He doesn't know anything about the bible AT ALL and yet refutes Gods existence because of the "bad things" in the world.

His reasons for not believing in God? Bone cancer in children. The parasite wasp that grows in a childs eye and eats its way outwards.

He says that the misery in the world is "not our fault" and that how dare God create us! How dare He! It's not right he says.

Apparently God is a capricious, mean-minded and stupid maniac God Who is not worthy of our respect and if we "banish" God, our lives will become simpler and purer and more worth living.

Will someone get up and tell this man WHY there are bad things in the world!!

Will someone please tell him that these things exists because of what we done way back in the garden of Eden.

That all pain, death, suffering (even wasp parasites and bone cancer in children) is because of that.

Someone please tell him not to "lean on his own understanding" which is abysmal and small. I know some 7 year olds that understand more about life on earth than this depressed man does! Yes, he used to be very depressed check his bio.

His arguments are sooo weak! God can't exist because there is evil in the world? Sorry but come on!!

All evil in the world is OUR fault. NOT God's fault!

He created everything that is for His pleasure not ours!

This bad things that exist, bone cancer in children, parasitic wasps, death and even bad jokes only exist because of our own actions in the garden of Eden. We must suffer a little while because of it, but we will not always suffer for one day all pain and sorrow and even death and bad jokes will be consumed up forever.

Let us pray for Stephen Fry that he might come to know the truth that is in Jesus Christ!

Psalm 19:1 - The heavens declare the glory of God; and the stars show off His amazing work.
Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Should we start a "Reasons for Gods Existence" thread? I already have some reasons off the top of my head. How live is so complex and organized. How the human cell works. How the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the Sun and placed into such a position that when it lines up with the earth it creates a beautiful solar eclipse. Water; odorless, tasteless, yet nothing can live without it. The eye. The brain. I could go on and on or I could find some more in Google.

Here's one for Mr Stephen Fry. Dear Stephen, have you considered the panda bear? Scientists can't understand what a panda was, before it was a panda. It's a living fossil. Usually animals show change (albeit most minor) through millions of years. Yet panda's show no change what so ever. Something scientists and Ethology and Zoology experts can't explain!

I can't find the article now but here's one that explains how its odd that panda's which have a pseudo thumb but have no real skills and have managed to survive for so long without any help from a higher power. This animals roots cannot be traced back to anything that would suggest it evolved from.

That's because it didn't "evolve", it was created a panda to be a panda by God.

Anyway back to Stephen Fry, its so sad that this man sits there so self-righteous and claims that God doesn't exist because of the bad things in the world yet has never read the bible in his life.

What can we say to such people?

I personally believe that he doesn't believe in God because he got clinically depressed and wanted to take his life. He probably couldn't understand how God could do that to him and let it happen to him. I know because its happened to me. I sometimes have dumb thoughts creeping up in my mind that God doesn't exist because of the rubbish things thats happened to me or that is happening in the world. But then I remember why they are happening and give thanks to God because He is sovereign.

God has let these things happen for reasons we cannot yet fully understand. Like, why doesn't God just destroy all evil in the world? Well there's coming a time when that will happen but in His time not in ours.

Sorry rant over. But come on man! Such naive views that is almost borderline laughable. Go read the bible!!!

God bless us.

R.

 

[Richie_2uk]

I just got done watching this video "Stephen Fry on God" and once again this guy has really annoyed me!

What an absolutely naive moron!!

He doesn't know anything about the bible AT ALL and yet refutes Gods existence because of the "bad things" in the world.

His reasons for not believing in God? Bone cancer in children. The parasite wasp that grows in a childs eye and eats its way outwards.

He says that the misery in the world is "not our fault" and that how dare God create us! How dare He! It's not right he says.

Apparently God is capricious, mean-minded and stupid maniac God Who is worthy of our respect and if we "banish" God, our loves will become simpler and purer and more worth living.

Will someone get up and tell this man WHY there are bad things in the world!!

Will someone please tell him that these things exists because of what we done way back in the garden of Eden.

That all pain, death, suffering (even wasp parasites and bone cancer in children) is because of that.

Someone please tell him not to "lean on his own understanding" which is abysmal and small. I know some 7 year olds that understand more about life on earth than this depressed man does! Yes, he used to be very depressed check his bio.

His arguments are sooo weak! God can't exist because there is evil in the world? Sorry but come on!!

All evil in the world is OUR fault. NOT God's fault!

He created everything that is for His pleasure not ours!

This bad things that exist, bone cancer in children, parasitic wasps, death and even bad jokes only exist because of our own actions in the garden of Eden. We must suffer a little while because of it, but we will not always suffer for one day all pain and sorrow and even death and bad jokes will be consumed up forever.

Let us pray for Stephen Fry that he might come to know the truth that is in Jesus Christ!

Psalm 19:1 - The heavens declare the glory of God; and the stars show off His amazing work.
Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Should we start a "Reasons for Gods Existence" thread? I already have some reasons off the top of my head. How live is so complex and organized. How the human cell works. How the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the Sun and placed into such a position that when it lines up with the earth it creates a beautiful solar eclipse. Water; odorless, tasteless, yet nothing can live without it. The eye. The brain. I could go on and on or I could find some more in Google.

Here's one for Mr Stephen Fry. Dear Stephen, have you considered the panda bear? Scientists can't understand what a panda was, before it was a panda. It's a living fossil. Usually animals show change (albeit most minor) through millions of years. Yet panda's show no change what so ever. Something scientists and Ethology and Zoology experts can't explain!

I can't find the article now but here's one that explains how its odd that panda's which have a pseudo thumb but have no real skills and have managed to survive for so long without any help from a higher power. This animals roots cannot be traced back to anything that would suggest it evolved from.

That's because it didn't "evolve", it was created a panda to be a panda by God.

Anyway back to Stephen Fry, its so sad that this man sits there so self-righteous and claims that God doesn't exist because of the bad things in the world yet has never read the bible in his life.

What can we say to such people?

I personally believe that he doesn't believe in God because he got clinically depressed and wanted to take his life. He probably couldn't understand how God could do that to him and let it happen to him. I know because its happened to me. I sometimes have dumb thoughts creeping up in my mind that God doesn't exist because of the rubbish things thats happened to me or that is happening in the world. But then I remember why they are happening and give thanks to God because He is sovereign.

God has let these things happen for reasons we cannot yet fully understand. Like, why doesn't God just destroy all evil in the world? Well there's coming a time when that will happen but in His time not in ours.

Sorry rant over. But come on man! Such naive views that is almost borderline laughable. Go read the bible!!!

God bless us.

R.

Well there are people you cannot tell. as they have no ears to listen with.

 

[Rudimental]

But he does have ears.

When Jesus said in Matthew 11:15 "Whoever has ears, let them hear."
Then again in Mark 4:9 "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."

He was talking literally about people with actual ears. It wasn't a parable or hidden meaning. He said ears and He meant ears. It's like saying, what I'm about to say is so important that you should listen to it as your life depends on it. And of course, everyone has ears, thats the point of it.

You can tell all people. Even blind and deaf people can receive the good news of salvation and come to peace with their situation knowing that all will be restored one day. Even if that means personally having to taste death first.

But some people are indeed so reliant on their own understanding of things and not the "actual truth".

God has hidden such things from such people. He uses fools to shame the wise. He uses the weak to overcome the strong. His power is made perfect in weakness. His existence and the word of His hands shines brightly to those that believe, yet to those that do not these things cannot be seen. So without a knowledge of the bible and the actual truth you are more a tool for old hairy legs than you are for God. Though old hairy legs would rather kill you than use you but he is very subtle and works through people to destroy people. And his greatest trick is to convince people that he doesn't exist because by logic, if satan doesn't exist then neither does God. But he does and God the father does. All day long angels sing Holy Holy Holy over and over and over again for eternity to Him. He sits on His righteous throne carrying out His mighty and awesome plan for mans redemption despite the work that hairy legs is doing. God lets this happen to test a mans heart. He seeks all of us individually but through the work of other people that is from the work of Christ.

 

[AnnaBou]

He might hate God because he chooses to live by sin.

I suppose he is saying that if God punishes children for the original sin that's a bit mean because it wasn't their fault. But the bad things in the World are there because of original sin. Some things in the World hurt but we have faith that all will be well if we accept Jesus.

 

[Rudimental]

He might hate God because he chooses to live by sin.

No I don't think that's it. I don't think he does sin. By sin in his own definition of it would be breaking the law of the land and he's not really the law breaker type. Unless he has got some secret sins he doesnt want to be responsible for like not paying his taxes and something else we don't know about. Generally he's quite an upstanding member of society by society's standards and when you see him on T.V on Q.I you would think so too.

Unless you mean choosing to live by sin by denying Christ which is the only unforgivable sin. The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. So sad but so true.

But then you could be right because he is a celebrity and once you become a rich and popular celebrity you get approached by the Illuminati. Don't you?

I suppose he is saying that if God punishes children for the original sin that's a bit mean because it wasn't their fault.

No that's not it either. Did you watch the video? He is not saying that God is punishing children!! He doesn't say "its a bit mean" he said that God is a capricious, mean-minded and stupid maniac. He is flatly saying that God cannot exist because of what happens to some children. Absolute mindless naivety!! Even some children have a bigger "I.Q" than him!

But the bad things in the World are there because of original sin.

Yes.

Some things in the World hurt but we have faith that all will be well if we accept Jesus.

Yes, on the blind side of it yes we do have faith and confidence that all will be well. But having faith AND actually accepting Jesus are two different things. There are many people that "have faith and believe" but are yet to actually accept Jesus into their heart.

Matthew 22:14. For many are called but few are chosen.

 

[mystikmind]

When i hear people say negative things about God, especially people who have suffered, strangely, i don't feel angry or offended, i feel compassion for them, i almost want to go and hug them?

 

[Willie-T]

Why would you bother to watch something about Stephen Fry, in the first place?

 

[Rudimental]

Why would you bother to watch something about Stephen Fry, in the first place?

Lol I know right! No well not so much about him but because he is actually quite a clever witty man and he hosts QI on Dave channel which is a British comedy panel game television quiz show created and hosted by Stephen Fry that also has other characters on it like Josh Widdicombe, Sue Perkins, Alan Davies and Frank Skinner who I adore.

So there you go. Thats my point. He is meant to be a clever intelligent man but he says that God cannot exist because of the evil in the world such as deadly wasp eye parasites and bone cancer in children.

But all evil exists because of Adam and Eve's temptation and disobedience in the garden of Eden. All evil is a by product of that fall. We don't live in the garden any more. We are living in a baron wasteland that is home to snakes and other things with fangs, stings and spikes. Even parasites and other weird deadly diseases. Even the thorns on a rose. Yes even a rose's thorns are a by-product of that event thousands of years ago and is the whole reason we needed a saviour and redeemer.

Yes Stephen, there are some terrible things in the world. And there always has been for hundreds and thousands of years since time began. Even Adam's son Cain, the first man ever born of a man and woman, slew his own brother Abel. Since then there has been murders, accidents, fights, lying, stealing, and all manner of sexual atrocities (you know what the Romans were like alone). There has been famines, pestilences, wars and genocides and and people like Keith Lemon.

Which is why we needed a saviour to redeem mankind to God. So that God could put an end to all suffering and evil in the world and restore mankind to Him. But in such a way as we would learn a lesson along the way as well. The same way as you teach a child to learn by scorning him/her for being naughty so they can learn self respect, self-control etc.

My point is Stephen, (if you're reading this) is that is the reason WHY such things exist in the world sir. Do you not believe in the four Holy Gospels then Stephen? Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are just made up novels to you are they?

Come on man!

God bless.

 

[Percepi]

Since Stephen Fry most likely won't see this thread, I'll speak from my own perspective. I have a feeling I'll be able to represent what Stephen Fry probably thinks to at least some level of accuracy.

But some people are indeed so reliant on their own understanding of things and not the "actual truth".

Well, people such as Stephen Fry (and myself) don't believe God to be real. You can call him the truth all you want, but that isn't enough justification for us to accept your claim that his existence is real.

God has hidden such things from such people. He uses fools to shame the wise. He uses the weak to overcome the strong. His power is made perfect in weakness. His existence and the word of His hands shines brightly to those that believe, yet to those that do not these things cannot be seen.

You're calling people fools for not accepting something they can't perceive. Even if God is real, you can't blame someone for not believing in him if God is intentionally hiding his existence from them. You can't fault genuine ignorance.

But all evil exists because of Adam and Eve's temptation and disobedience in the garden of Eden. All evil is a by product of that fall. We don't live in the garden any more. We are living in a baron wasteland that is home to snakes and other things with fangs, stings and spikes.

I imagine Stephen would respond with something like, "Why did God allow this to happen? Why didn't God tell Adam and Eve, "Hey, there are lying snakes in the garden who will tell you to eat from the forbidden tree. Don't trust it. If you do, you'll feel pain, sorrow, agony, and eventually die. Here, let me give you a sample of what pain feels like. *zap* Now, if you want to live a life of pain, it's your choice, but now you can't say you weren't warned."

Furthermore, God would have the power to reshape sin so it's not inherited. God's the one who dictated how sin works since, according to Christians, God is the authority on morality. Sin is inherited because that's how God designed sin to act. The world is full of dangers because that's how God shaped the Earth as a means of reacting to Adam and Eve's original sin.

None of these arguments are really new, and I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm simply trying to give you what I feel would be similar to Stephen Fry's response.

Keep in mind, Stephen Fry was asked what he would say to God if he met him face to face and found out he was real. He was not asked why he doesn't believe in God.

Trust me, Stephen isn't ignorant of the explanations for God - he just isn't convinced.

 

[Rudimental]

Since Stephen Fry most likely won't see this thread, I'll speak from my own perspective. I have a feeling I'll be able to represent what Stephen Fry probably thinks to at least some level of accuracy.

Hi Percepi, well not unless you are familiar with Stephen Fry yourself? Or unless you've watched his QI TV episodes much but not sure you get channel Dave in the States do you?

As for him not seeing it, I'll send him a twit just to make sure.

Well, people such as Stephen Fry (and myself) don't believe God to be real. You can call him the truth all you want, but that isn't enough justification for us to accept your claim that his existence is real.

I'll ask you too then. Do you not believe in the four Holy Gospels then Percepi? Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are just made up novels to you are they? These are fictional stories woven by deceitful people over the last two thousand+ years then are they? They all "made up and over exaggerated" their testimonies about the things that Jesus did then did they while they was following Him then did they? And all the prophecies in the bible that have came true since, are all pure coincidences or very good guesses then? Is that what you think Percepi? And if so, and you don't believe in God, how come you are on a Christian chat forum then? Was it that you used to believe but then become cynical since for some reason? Or perhaps its more interesting than that, perhaps there is that tiny part of you that isn't sure and wants there to be something better like everyone else? Or are you "content" with the evil in the world and believe that evil doesn't exist?

It is the bible and knowing it that is all the justification that you need for the truth to become known to you Percepi. Not just knowing of the bible but actually knowing it and studying it. And studying it all your life to really get to know it and all the wisdom and secrets of God. Do you have such knowledge and study of the bible Percepi? Your next statement didn't appear as though you did if I'm honest.

You're calling people fools for not accepting something they can't perceive. Even if God is real, you can't blame someone for not believing in him if God is intentionally hiding his existence from them. You can't fault genuine ignorance.

No lets get something clear off the bat. I'm in no way calling him a fool. You should never call anyone foolish because it is God that is pulling the strings in the person at the end of the day. Also here's another good reason not to call someone a fool or be in danger of hell fire! It's not the point I'm making. I was quoting scripture 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God is not hiding His existence from him. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are (men) without excuse: God has made it very clear to him but he cannot accept it because of the "bad things" in the world.

I imagine Stephen would respond with something like, "Why did God allow this to happen? Why didn't God tell Adam and Eve, "Hey, there are lying snakes in the garden who will tell you to eat from the forbidden tree. Don't trust it. If you do, you'll feel pain, sorrow, agony, and eventually die. Here, let me give you a sample of what pain feels like. *zap* Now, if you want to live a life of pain, it's your choice, but now you can't say you weren't warned."

Wow I'm pretty sure Stephen wouldn't say something like that lol

Also if that is your definition and take on the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and how God operates then I refer to my previous statement about you not knowing the bible very well if at all Percepi.

I will allow you the "why did God allow this to happen" question though. We do not know the "reason" why things are the way they are. "Why" things have happened the way they have. And we cannot understand or even agree with it. Especially in our limited intellects. But what we do not need to know all the "ins and outs" and or pros and cons for it. All we needed to know and pay attention to was what God said when He said in Genesis 2:16 and 17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17. but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." God made it pretty simple to understand. Don't eat it or you will die fair enough got it.

But yes, it could have been a talking snake, remember, they were in the garden of Eden!!! Hello!! lol I am sure the garden of Eden would have been a billion times better than even the best gardens in the world today! It would have probably had many types of weird and wonderful animals. But if that is what the bible says that there was a sneaky snake who was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. So yes if that's what the bible says then it is true. Why would they even make up a story like that if they wanted people to actually "believe" it? Hmmm

God never said here you go have a sample what pain is like and zapped them lol He banished them from the garden of Eden but first before He done that, he made them some clothes to wear to cover their nakedness because they came to know "shame". Before this, we wouldn't have even known what "shame" itself felt like as there was no shame. After that he then banished them from the garden of Eden and put an angel with a double edged sword at the entrance to it to protect it and so started man on his "own" journey without God. God let that happen because man had to be punished and see what the "consequences" of disobeying God are.

That is the message there brother. Lean not on your own understanding.

Furthermore, God would have the power to reshape sin so it's not inherited. God's the one who dictated how sin works since, according to Christians, God is the authority on morality. Sin is inherited because that's how God designed sin to act. The world is full of dangers because that's how God shaped the Earth as a means of reacting to Adam and Eve's original sin.

You're sorta right. At the end anyway. A sin is a sin is a sin to God and He cannot stand to look at it. Once sin has been conceived, the sinner is in need of punishment. Because God is a holy and just God. He's not being mean for the sake of being mean. He "has" to punish sin and blot it out because He is holy and righteous. God never "designed" sin. All sin is in disagreement with His will since it is in direct violation against Him (His Heavenly laws). But yes the world is the way it is because of Adam and Eve's original sin. You're well on your way to becoming saved. Go you! \o/

None of these arguments are really new, and I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm simply trying to give you what I feel would be similar to Stephen Fry's response.

I know me neither but I don't mind debate and quotational responses all day long so long as they are kept civil and respectful. Even if we don't like what we are saying.

Keep in mind, Stephen Fry was asked what he would say to God if he met him face to face and found out he was real. He was not asked why he doesn't believe in God.

Trust me, Stephen isn't ignorant of the explanations for God - he just isn't convinced.

Yes but he went on to say that God cannot exist for these reasons. The question was asked because of Stephen Fry's earlier statements about God not existing because of the evil in the world. He is saying that he will say to God, "how dare you, how dare you create a world with such misery that it is not our fault." But IT IS our fault Percepi.

He is calling God mean-minded, capricious and stupid. But it is okay. God is big enough to take it.

He says that he "wouldn't want to get into Heaven". These are words that he will regret saying one day if he dies before he accepts Christ into his heart.

He then goes on to say that if it was the greek gods then he'd be happier with that and that God deserves "no respect what-so-ever"

He ends by saying the God is an utter maniac and some sort of other blathering that life will become more worth living without God.

Our God is a loving and just and holy God, He sent His ONLY son to be an atonement for our sins so that satan and his principals would not be able to win. Yes evil lost when it sent an innocent man to the cross. Jesus be praised and worshiped for ever and ever that we are restored to God and all evil, all wasp parasites and bone cancer will never exist ever again and we'll all have one continuesly long party without the hangover and will will all know things much more clearly because as it is written; 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Amen and God bless.

 

[Percepi]

Hi Percepi, well not unless you are familiar with Stephen Fry yourself? Or unless you've watched his QI TV episodes much but not sure you get channel Dave in the States do you?

I'm familiar with Stephen Fry and skeptical atheists tend to zero in on similar points. This is why I doubt what I said is far from what he views. But, I could be wrong.

Do you not believe in the four Holy Gospels then Percepi? Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are just made up novels to you are they? These are fictional stories woven by deceitful people over the last two thousand+ years then are they? They all "made up and over exaggerated" their testimonies about the things that Jesus did then did they while they was following Him then did they?

You are correct, though I'm not exactly sure what you meant with the last question.

And all the prophecies in the bible that have came true since, are all pure coincidences or very good guesses then?

The prophecies are vague, predict things that are already likely to happen, or the fulfillment of these prophecies are added later by authors who were aware of the prophecies to begin with (which means they could be made up).

And if so, and you don't believe in God, how come you are on a Christian chat forum then?

I'll answer that, but first...

Was it that you used to believe but then become cynical since for some reason?

Nope. I never became cynical. I became skeptical.

Or perhaps its more interesting than that, perhaps there is that tiny part of you that isn't sure and wants there to be something better like everyone else?

I'm not completely certain whether there's a god or not. I'll openly admit it. But I'm also not completely certain whether there's an invisible giraffe that watches me sleep at night either. I'm not on this site because a tiny part of me believes God is real or because a tiny part of me wants to believe God is real. I try to avoid basing what I do believe on what I want to believe, because wanting to believe something doesn't make it true.

Or are you "content" with the evil in the world and believe that evil doesn't exist?

Not this one either.

So to answer your question:

...how come you are on a Christian chat forum?

I'm here because I'm genuinely interested in why people believe believe in God, what Christians really believe, and what conclusions they draw from the events around them. I'd also like to help correct people's misconceptions about atheism and figure out ways in which both atheists and Christians can better understand each other.

It is the bible and knowing it that is all the justification that you need for the truth to become known to you Percepi. Not just knowing of the bible but actually knowing it and studying it. And studying it all your life to really get to know it and all the wisdom and secrets of God.

I'm still learning more about the Bible, but the more I learn the more unlikely it is the Bible is true.

Imagine if I gave you a Harry Potter book and I said, "Do you believe this book to be true? No? Read it again and understand it better. Eventually, the magic that exists in this world will seep through you and will make you finally see that magic is real! You will finally know of wizards and witches and your magical abilities will finally arise!"

How are you supposed to respond? If you tell me, "prove it", I can always resort back to "The proof will only be revealed when you study Harry Potter enough to know magic is real! And I can't show you my magic because I'll have my magic taken away!"

You're essentially telling me to study the Bible until I believe it in order for me to believe the Bible, it's just not a convincing argument at all when you're talking to skeptics.

No lets get something clear off the bat. I'm in no way calling him a fool. You should never call anyone foolish because it is God that is pulling the strings in the person at the end of the day. Also here's another good reason not to call someone a fool or be in danger of hell fire! It's not the point I'm making. I was quoting scripture 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God is not hiding His existence from him. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are (men) without excuse: God has made it very clear to him but he cannot accept it because of the "bad things" in the world.

Just because the Bible has an explanation for why people don't believe what's written in the Bible doesn't mean it's evidence the Bible is true. You're trying to tell atheists why they don't believe the Bible to be true by quoting the very book they don't believe to be true.

What you quoted is an explanation from the Bible, sure, but skeptical atheists don't buy it.

Wow I'm pretty sure Stephen wouldn't say something like that lol

What I said about Adam and Eve seemed to go alongside with what he said in the interview. Even if he wouldn't have said it, I'm so certain he'd agree. If you can somehow get Stephen Fry to disagree with my statement and prove it, I'll donate $200 to this site.

Also if that is your definition and take on the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and how God operates then I refer to my previous statement about you not knowing the bible very well if at all Percepi.

You're assuming I don't know the Bible because I don't agree with Christian apologetics.

I will allow you the "why did God allow this to happen" question though. We do not know the "reason" why things are the way they are. "Why" things have happened the way they have. And we cannot understand or even agree with it. Especially in our limited intellects. But what we do not need to know all the "ins and outs" and or pros and cons for it. All we needed to know and pay attention to was what God said when He said in Genesis 2:16 and 17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17. but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." God made it pretty simple to understand. Don't eat it or you will die fair enough got it.

Adam and Eve were deceived. Eve BELIEVED everything the serpent said. She wasn't rebelling against God, she was punished because she was ignorant of what deception was.

But yes, it could have been a talking snake, remember, they were in the garden of Eden!!! Hello!! lol I am sure the garden of Eden would have been a billion times better than even the best gardens in the world today! It would have probably had many types of weird and wonderful animals. But if that is what the bible says that there was a sneaky snake who was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. So yes if that's what the bible says then it is true. Why would they even make up a story like that if they wanted people to actually "believe" it? Hmmm

You're essentially saying, "It's so ridiculous, it must be true!"

Don't forget about all the other legends, stories, and religions around the world. Why would people make those things up? Surely they must be true as well?

God never said here you go have a sample what pain is like and zapped them lol He banished them from the garden of Eden but first before He done that, he made them some clothes to wear to cover their nakedness because they came to know "shame". Before this, we wouldn't have even known what "shame" itself felt like as there was no shame. After that he then banished them from the garden of Eden and put an angel with a double edged sword at the entrance to it to protect it and so started man on his "own" journey without God. God let that happen because man had to be punished and see what the "consequences" of disobeying God are.

Sure, this is an explanation, but it isn't convincing.

That is the message there brother. Lean not on your own understanding.

I'm not going to accept something as true just because someone tells me, "It's true. We don't know why it's true, but this book says it's true. Therefore, you need to accept that it's true." That's essentially what you're telling me. You're telling me to accept the Bible as true without questioning it.

He "has" to punish sin and blot it out because He is holy and righteous.

I'm sorry, but when does an omnipotent entity HAVE to do anything? God doesn't have to punish sin to blot it out because he's omnipotent. He has the power to handle it in any way he wants.

Yes but he went on to say that God cannot exist for these reasons. The question was asked because of Stephen Fry's earlier statements about God not existing because of the evil in the world. He is saying that he will say to God, "how dare you, how dare you create a world with such misery that it is not our fault." But IT IS our fault Percepi.

There are numerous sources online as to why God's own characteristics contradict each other, but it's not a debate I want to get into. All I'll say is that skeptics often view the concept of hell, pain, and death as contradictions to God's perfect love. I'll provide a link to demonstrate some of these contradictions, but it's a debate I'd rather stay out of because I don't want to get into a 10 page discussion that gets nowhere.

Our God is a loving and just and holy God, He sent His ONLY son to be an atonement for our sins so that satan and his principals would not be able to win.

An infinitely powerful god hatches a plan requiring his only son be killed in order for our sins to be wiped clean, even though he has the power to wipe away our sins without relying on any pain or suffering what-so-ever. And if you argue that pain and suffering was the only way to create a powerful enough message to mankind, you're greatly underestimating what it means to have infinite power.

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion! That's all I really want to say on this topic. I'm not trying to debate God's existence for sake of trying to prove or disprove anything - I'm just explaining why people like me don't believe in God, or why Stephen most likely doesn't believe in God.

 

[PennEd]

I watched the Fry interview and I felt fear just watching it. My mind kept going to this man before the feet of the Lord unable to repent, realizing too late that his blasphemous words would resonate through eternity. I pray that the Lord would use something, anything, to make this man see his folly before it's too late.

 

[Rudimental]

So you think that the four Holy Gospels are made up over exaggerated stories and that all the things the Jesus' followers did are false and made up? Interesting. And you think that all the prophecies of things predicted with amazing accuracy and detail and all that it says that is to come are vague and predictions on things that were "likely" to happen? Why would people do that? They weren't added by authors later. All scripture is God breathed. If it says it is then you have to take it as it is because your very soul depends on it. And as for cynical and skeptical these are basically the same things. You still "became" a non believer. You doubt God and His majesty. You deny Christ then. Then He will deny you on the day of Judgement too. But then you do say that you're not completely sure if God exists or not.

I'm pretty sure brother that there are no invisible giraffe's that watch over you when you sleep but I can tell you that. You can believe in the invisible giraffe as much as you want but there is no God breathed scripture that is completley infallible to back that up like there is with the bible so that argument holds no water.

You say you're here to know what Christians really believe. The message of Christ is simple and made to be simple so that even babes can understand it. We believe that Jesus is the only Son of God predestined to be sent to earth as an attonment for mans sin so that God could restore us back to Him. Basically, in short, evil failed when it crucified an innocent man and lost its power on the Cross. God made Him sin for our sakes. I hope and pray you'll come to see the simplicity of that and understand the meaning of it.

I'm not aware of anyone that has ever had a mis-conception (mis-understanding?) of what atheism is. Is there different types of atheism? As far as I'm concerned just the mere mention of the word rings of foolishness and stupidity and an abomination and mockery to and of God to me (nothing personal against you) I'm not saying that it's true because I want it to be true. I'm saying it's true because the bible says its true. God is real man! He's everywhere you look. He's visible in the power of the rising sun, He's visible in the gravitational pull of the moon. He's visible in the human cell, and He's visible in many other ways as well. Are not more and more of the worlds top acclaimed scientists stepping forward and claiming to believe in God because of their studies on how the human cells work and how life and all its order and complexity points to the doings of an intelligent creator.

Here check out 10 scientists who claim to believe in God. Some used to be skeptics like you. There are so many other things that are visible to us that point to an intelligent creator. Some of these are off the top of my head. I like these very good reasons that point towards Gods existence here. These things are all mere coincidences then? Come on man!

Now regarding Harry Potter, I knew you were into that wizard stuff or had a feeling. Is that you in your avatar? You seem that type if so into Harry Potter and all that wizard/witch stuff. Magical spells and hexes and curses and other black art stuff right? Like tarot cards, runes, ouija boards? I hope not as you want to stay away from all that as it will infect you in the long run!

But Harry Potter and the bible are two completely different things and cannot be compared to each other. No matter how many times I read Harry Potter, its not going to save my soul and pay dividends to me come later on. If anything it will get me more involved with black arts and witchcraft and all that ridiculousness that old hairy legs uses to blind kids with from the truth today.

I'm telling you to study the bible because it will ultimately save your life. That and give you a ton of wisdom and life skills along the way. Its obvious that the bible is true. If none of the events happened they wouldn't be written in it. People are pedantic at keeping records and these were not Machiavellian men they were noble and good honest people inspired by God.

I'm sorry, but when does an omnipotent entity HAVE to do anything? God doesn't have to punish sin to blot it out because he's omnipotent. He has the power to handle it in any way he wants.

You don't understand Gods nature. He DOES have to punish sin because He is Holy and righteous and righteousness must conquer unrighteousness. Yes He does have all the power but He still must do what is righteous and that is to punish the crime with a punishment that fits. Remember, God could have just destroyed us and given up on His project but He loved us that much that even though we disobeyed His direct orders and allowed the serpent to beguile us He never cast us off forever until we perished for good but rather He had a plan to bring us back to Him through Christ.

An infinitely powerful god hatches a plan requiring his only son be killed in order for our sins to be wiped clean, even though he has the power to wipe away our sins without relying on any pain or suffering what-so-ever. And if you argue that pain and suffering was the only way to create a powerful enough message to mankind, you're greatly underestimating what it means to have infinite power.

You should definitely read your bible more. It wasn't Gods plan for His Son to be killed for our sins to be forgiven. It was never His plan for mankind to fall from Grace. He still new it would happen though. We cannot understand the reasons why God doesn't just do away with evil in the world now and why we have to wait for Christ to return. But one day we will know all the reasons. And no doubt we will be greatly humbled and awe inspired by the grand majesty of it all when we do. But I believe that we are learning a lesson on faith and the child like faith that God wants us to have because He is.

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion! That's all I really want to say on this topic. I'm not trying to debate God's existence for sake of trying to prove or disprove anything - I'm just explaining why people like me don't believe in God, or why Stephen most likely doesn't believe in God.

No worries brother! I hope that I have given you cause to think and some food for thought.

Regards and God bless!

 

[Percepi]

And as for cynical and skeptical these are basically the same things.

No, they aren't basically the same thing. They're entirely different.

Cynicism is a general distrust of other people and their motivations. Skepticism, on the other hand, is to question claims based on what information is or is not available to the individual. A skeptic is not necessarily a cynic in that many skeptics (myself included) are quite trusting. Not only that, but many people who aren't very skeptical of the things around them can be very distrustful. Of course, there are different flavors and blends of people all over - my point is that the two terms are entirely different and are not dependent on one another.

I'm pretty sure brother that there are no invisible giraffe's that watch over you when you sleep but I can tell you that. You can believe in the invisible giraffe as much as you want but there is no God breathed scripture that is completley infallible to back that up like there is with the bible so that argument holds no water.

Keep in mind, the invisible giraffe example was only provided to highlight agnosticism. It's possible a god exists in the same way it's possible an invisible giraffe exists. I was not comparing their likelihood, only that I can technically say both are possible.

Yes, there would be more reason to believe in God than an invisible giraffe.

You say you're here to know what Christians really believe. The message of Christ is simple and made to be simple so that even babes can understand it.

Earlier you said:

We do not know the "reason" why things are the way they are. "Why" things have happened the way they have. And we cannot understand or even agree with it. Especially in our limited intellects.

The message of Christ might be simple to understand, but I'm not trying to figure out Christ's message. I know the core idea in which everyone must worship God and accept Christ as their savior. That part is simple. But there's more to Christianity than just a simple message to praise God, there is an entire culture as well as entire schools of thought revolving around the Bible and apologetics.

Not only that, but assuming the Bible is true, it is by no means "simple" to understand. This is why we often hear "God works in mysterious ways" and what you quoted "Lean not on your own understanding." Christians argue that God's plans are too intricate for our intellects to even grasp. Even if you can grasp what is going on in the Bible, the easy part, understanding why any of it is necessary is perplexing.

I hope and pray you'll come to see the simplicity of that and understand the meaning of it.

You're under the impression that atheists don't understand what the message means. We do understand what the message means, we're just not convinced that it's true.

I'm not aware of anyone that has ever had a mis-conception (mis-understanding?) of what atheism is.

Have you watched God's Not Dead? It's a wonderful example of untrue atheist stereotypes.

This following video goes over a few misconceptions people have had about atheists.
[video=youtube;8oa_3HC8vdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oa_3HC8vdQ[/video]

Some other notable misconceptions:
* Atheists actually do believe in God because they spend their time debating his existence.
* Atheists don't have any morals.
* Atheists are angry at God.
* Atheists are unhappy people.
* Atheists just want to sin.

God is real man! He's everywhere you look. He's visible in the power of the rising sun, He's visible in the gravitational pull of the moon. He's visible in the human cell, and He's visible in many other ways as well.

I don't think you understand what the word "visible" means. The fact stuff exists isn't proof God exists.

Are not more and more of the worlds top acclaimed scientists stepping forward and claiming to believe in God because of their studies on how the human cells work and how life and all its order and complexity points to the doings of an intelligent creator.

Are more coming out as Christian? I highly doubt it. But even the most acclaimed Christian scientists do not allow their religious views to influence their scientific research. They may or may not believe complexity points towards a creator, but these views are based on their own prejudices and are not scientifically proven.

An honest person who believes complexity points towards a god will admit they're assuming. That's all it is, an assumption. It's complex, therefore one assumes a god designed it. This isn't proof. You can't have proof. Having proof would require a means of observing non-created matter - which you see the problem with this.

Here check out 10 scientists who claim to believe in God.

It's obvious you didn't actually read the article...

I like these very good reasons that point towards Gods existence here. These things are all mere coincidences then? Come on man!

The article can be summed up into this: "It's so implausible - GOD MUST HAVE DONE IT!" Implausible doesn't mean impossible. Even more importantly, it's not proof God did it. This falls under the God of the gaps fallacy in which one assumes God must be the answer when they come across a problem they don't have an answer for.

Now regarding Harry Potter, I knew you were into that wizard stuff or had a feeling. Is that you in your avatar? You seem that type if so into Harry Potter and all that wizard/witch stuff. Magical spells and hexes and curses and other black art stuff right? Like tarot cards, runes, ouija boards? I hope not as you want to stay away from all that as it will infect you in the long run!

Actually, I don't care for Harry Potter. As for tarot cards, runes, ouija boards, etc., there is absolutely nothing mystical about them. They either DON'T WORK or they're given the illusion of working based off of psychological flaws that are exploited when we're placed in a certain state of mind.

I actually made the Bible Study room flip out because I told them I was going to go to a palm reader and record the experience so I could expose how it's all FAKE. But these people believe palm readings, tarot cards, etc., TO BE REAL! They warned me not to do it, that it doesn't even matter if it's fake, because God says not to go near those things. If they're fake, there's no reason why one wouldn't be allowed to expose these things as fake.

James Randi does a magnificent job exposing psychics as frauds. You should really look into it. I know, I know, it's a sin blah blah blah - he doesn't perform them, he exposes them. For example, he'll teach you how to bend a spoon like butter with the power of your mind! This involves bending a spoon back and fourth until it's about to break, then pretending you're weakening it with your mind. He exposed one psychic on T.V. who claimed he could move pages of a phone book move without touching them - but Randi proved that it was done using a gust of air caused by thrusting his hand towards the pages.

Please, you think I'm into tarot cards? I'm into exposing these delusional or intentionally corrupt con artists.

But Harry Potter and the bible are two completely different things and cannot be compared to each other. No matter how many times I read Harry Potter, its not going to save my soul and pay dividends to me come later on.

You can't just look at two things and say they can't be compared. You have to look at how they're being compared. Again, I simply used Harry Potter to explain how you can't tell someone the only way they can learn something is true is to read it until they're convinced it's true.

I'm telling you to study the bible because it will ultimately save your life.

I appreciate your concern.

Its obvious that the bible is true. If none of the events happened they wouldn't be written in it.

It was written down, therefore it must be true! Flawless.

People are pedantic at keeping records and these were not Machiavellian men they were noble and good honest people inspired by God.

Unless they were lying, in which case they would be liars posing as good honest people inspired by God. This is why your argument doesn't work.

You should definitely read your bible more. It wasn't Gods plan for His Son to be killed for our sins to be forgiven.

You greatly underestimate what I know about the Bible and what I have read.

No worries brother! I hope that I have given you cause to think and some food for thought.

I appreciate the conversation. Though, I've heard all your arguments before.

I didn't address everything from your second post because a lot of it was a repeat of what I already rebutted. There's no point in going in circles if we can help it.

 

[Nautilus]

to be fair being punished six thousand years later(or whatever young earth creationists believe)over the acts of two people in a garden seems rather harsh.

 

[Joidevivre]

I watched the Fry interview and I felt fear just watching it. My mind kept going to this man before the feet of the Lord unable to repent, realizing too late that his blasphemous words would resonate through eternity. I pray that the Lord would use something, anything, to make this man see his folly before it's too late.

Finally - a man who realizes the right response to this Fry guy.

Intercession for this lost man.

 

[leon14]

If a fat, pompous, manic, gay, atheist jew who did time in jail came up to you and said these things to you in person would you go around repeating them like a parrot.....????

Just because Fry is on TV it doesnt make his opinions more respectable or smarter than yours

 

[ColinCat]

If you actually listened to what Stephen Fry said, he didn't blame god for any of those things. He was asked a hypothetical question of what would happen if he discovered he was wrong about the afterlife and if he was confronted with god.

He isn't an atheist because he thinks god is responsible.. He is saying what he would ask if he discovered god did exist.

 

[ColinCat]

If a fat, pompous, manic, gay, atheist jew who did time in jail came up to you and said these things to you in person would you go around repeating them like a parrot.....????

Just because Fry is on TV it doesnt make his opinions more respectable or smarter than yours

Wow. What an insightful response.

What does his weight have to do with anything? What does him being a gay have to do with anything?

Sorrt Stephen, because you are a fat, gay atheist.. You can't voice an opinion

Ridiculous.

 

[blue_ladybug]

oh brother..not again with the insults.. :/