Can a Christian be sinless, perfect?

[wattie]

perfect in the bible-- means maturity and completeness.. not perfect sinlessness. Only one being has ever done that in the flesh and that is God- Jesus.

So any scriptures entreating believers to be 'perfect' is not about saying you will never sin.. but to go on to maturity in their faith.

Like the 'perfect tense'-- this is something in the past that has come to completion.

I think the Greek word on which this is based is 'meros'.. which is about maturity and completion.. but I could be wrong.

If it were actually possible to be fully sinless.. humans would be Gods.

 

[Zmouth]

Job 1:8
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

 

[michael56]

Job 1:8
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Do not bring your servant into judgment,
for no one living is righteous before you. psalm143:2

 

[Jeff_56]

in job 1:8 the lord is speaking.

in psalm 143:2 david is speaking.

oh, both are completely true. just not understood together or separately until yahweh grants the answer from heaven.

 

[michael56]

Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

f we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:8

Both are completely true.................................

 

[Zmouth]

Do not bring your servant into judgment,
for no one living is righteous before you. psalm143:2

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps 143:2

However, the context of the passage is from the one praying not the LORD speaking. Psalms 143:1

Hear my prayer, O LORD, give ear to my supplications: in thy faithfulness answer me, and in thy righteousness.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I will have to agree with previous posters that being perfect as the bible describes is not about being completely sinless.
To be perfect means in your walk in the faith you walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy, which are all the same traits the Lord showed to us that we are in turn commanded to show to others.

That being said I do not believe that a born again Christian sins every single day, all the time, or multiple times a day as some try to say. As this would mean that we are all walking carnally minded then, and Paul says clearly in Romans 8 that we can not be carnally minded or it will lead to death.

 

[Zmouth]

perfect in the bible-- means maturity and completeness.. not perfect sinlessness. Only one being has ever done that in the flesh and that is God- Jesus.

So any scriptures entreating believers to be 'perfect' is not about saying you will never sin.. but to go on to maturity in their faith.

Like the 'perfect tense'-- this is something in the past that has come to completion.

I think the Greek word on which this is based is 'meros'.. which is about maturity and completion.. but I could be wrong.

If it were actually possible to be fully sinless.. humans would be Gods.

I hope you don't get the impression that my response is a judgment of you. We're all growing in the faith and my response was merely to give a another perspective to consider.

 

[michael56]

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps 143:2

However, the context of the passage is from the one praying not the LORD speaking. Psalms 143:1

Hear my prayer, O LORD, give ear to my supplications: in thy faithfulness answer me, and in thy righteousness.

To be truly righteous under the law you have to obey it 100% with no deviation. No one ever did, hence David's words

James 2:10 Gal 3:10&11 Rom 4:14&15

 

[Zmouth]

I will have to agree with previous posters that being perfect as the bible describes is not about being completely sinless.
To be perfect means in your walk in the faith you walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy, which are all the same traits the Lord showed to us that we are in turn commanded to show to others.

That being said I do not believe that a born again Christian sins every single day, all the time, or multiple times a day as some try to say. As this would mean that we are all walking carnally minded then, and Paul says clearly in Romans 8 that we can not be carnally minded or it will lead to death.

Rom 6:7-8
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

[Zmouth]

To be truly righteous under the law you have to obey it 100% with no deviation. No one ever did, hence David's words

James 2:10 Gal 3:10&11 Rom 4:14&15

Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


At least I am anyway, by faith that I received by His grace.

 

[michael56]

Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


At least I am anyway, by faith that I received by His grace.

One of the most understated verses of scripture in the bible in my opinion. However, I am not perfect in my flesh, nor have I ever met any Christian who has claimed to be. So I cannot say I never commit any sin according to the biblical definition of sin. I do not perfectly keep the whole law of God written on my mind and placed on my heart.
A Baptist minister once said. ''If we followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never sin, the reality of which escapes us all''

 

[Jeff_56]

being not under the law doesn't anywhere mean that it is right to sin. that's the difference between a lot of right and wrong being spouted in this site.

righteousness is by faith in christ jesus, not by being under the law nor by keeping the law.

and those who are made righteous by jesus obey jesus, even bringing every thought and imagination subject to him, and as it is written elsewhere purifying themselves because he is pure. so simple, and so disobeyed(in sin) by those who keep fighting against jesus.

 

[Simiel]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

yes you can be perfect just as Jesus was. People just tend to make up excuses for there short comings.

Bibles says he makes a way out of ALL temptation. point blank.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Rom 6:7-8
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

This scripture you give is correct however it only refers to when one is in Christ, if you sin you are putting yourself back under the law and need to repent/confess for this sin to be forgiven and cleansed of this unrighteousness. The scriptures do not say you will never sin again, as that would be a misuse of 1 John 3:6. One must use scripture to interpret scripture, and by doing so as long as you abide in Christ you will not sin. This is because love for Him and all others would not want you to do wrong to others, but if you give into your own temptations you put yourself back under sin needing to be confessed of (1 John 1:9, 2:1-2). And then James says if you give back into your temptations and let them get full grown and control you again then it will lead to death (James 1:14-15).

 

[Zmouth]

One of the most understated verses of scripture in the bible in my opinion.

Luke 11:13
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Many think that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are same but the they are not. The Holy Spirit [a lie] is given to those as the scripture says, being evil. So do you think the Holy Ghost, who is your heavenly Father answers the prayers of the evil?

The Spirit, the holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost is the Son of the Eternal Light. The Lamb as referenced in Rev 13:8 "....in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

In the KJV the term 'holy spirit' is used 1 time, the term 'holy Spirit' is used 5 times and the term 'Holy Ghost' is used once.

1 John 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Luke 23:46
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

But John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Remember the Son and the Father are one, but you must have met Him when he brought to the LORD since John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[gotime]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

When God speaks it is:

Let there be light and there is light.

peace be still and the wind and waves obey Him.

Be perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect these are the words of God,

The question is do you have faith/trust in his ability and power to preform in you what He calls you to?

 

[michael56]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

Anyone who thinks they can live a sinless life on this earth does not understand what the pure and Holy law of God fully demands. The closer you come to God, the more you see/are aware of your own personal worthlessness and imperfections

 

[mikeuk]

Another take on this is found in the lords prayer.
Assuming before sin is always temptation.

Our lord's prayer says "lead us not into temptation"
Now accepting that God will not cause you to sin, or actively "lead you into temptation",
I have always assumed that means "help us to avoid temptation" or "do not allow us to be led into temptation"

If you then doubt the ability of god to keep you away from temptation, with grace, you are doubting the power of God to be able to do what he suggests you pray for!
So clearly with grace you can avoid temptation, the causes of sin, so if he wills it so, you could be sinless! Otherwise you doubt the power of god. So pray for the grace to be so!


Interesting argument....

 

[john832]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

no contradiction.

remember yahweh is perfect (no mistake ever possible in him, nothing even that is not brilliantly righteous shining greater than a thousand suns ! ).

ask him what he meant.

yahshua always spoke the truth, yahweh's own word.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The word for perfect here is:

G5046

τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Total KJV occurrences: 19

Paul shows us this is something we grow into...

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Same word here. Notice the following verse...

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Full age is translated from the same Greek word τέλειος. It is used in the sense of coming to maturity.