Attack on character

[Sirk]

Why is it that people attack others character instead of sticking to the truth about how they feel about a given subject? For example........someone would say "that is stupid".....which sort of implies that the person expressing the idea is stupid i.e.: an attack on their character........instead of simply saying....I don't like that, this is what that did for me or this is how I feel about that.

I'm not asking for you to give me an answer......I'm just raising the question as part of an honest discussion.... and yes this specific thing happened on cc and I'm not picking on anyone. It was just an example that was front of awareness for me.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I will say that I see everyone do it at some point. I see people, here and in every other place in life, talk out against a group of people they dont like, using insults to describe those people over bringing up what they could be doing wrong. I have done this too, an example I can think of that kinda bothers me atm, a convo I was in on a yt video about homosexuality from The Vigilant Christian. I was talking about it in a Christian way, about leaving your desires behind for God, and I got a few people who took that chance to make God out to be some illogical bully who was incapable of reason, then claimed I was lying about my past because those people absolutely cannot change ever. And instead of calmly sharing my story, I kinda scoffed at them. And like the next day I realized I had made a mistake.

It is easier to react on negative feelings pushed on you than to do whats right, stay calm and talk in a mature way, pointing out the truth of the situation and listening back to what you may be missing, and just become defensive and attacking the other group. We all do it from time to time. I think instead of talking about others who do this, we should stick to when we do it ourselves, and talk about ways to combat such things. Because I could definitely use that help

 

[Sirk]

I will say that I see everyone do it at some point. I see people, here and in every other place in life, talk out against a group of people they dont like, using insults to describe those people over bringing up what they could be doing wrong. I have done this too, an example I can think of that kinda bothers me atm, a convo I was in on a yt video about homosexuality from The Vigilant Christian. I was talking about it in a Christian way, about leaving your desires behind for God, and I got a few people who took that chance to make God out to be some illogical bully who was incapable of reason, then claimed I was lying about my past because those people absolutely cannot change ever. And instead of calmly sharing my story, I kinda scoffed at them. And like the next day I realized I had made a mistake.

It is easier to react on negative feelings pushed on you than to do whats right, stay calm and talk in a mature way, pointing out the truth of the situation and listening back to what you may be missing, and just become defensive and attacking the other group. We all do it from time to time. I think instead of talking about others who do this, we should stick to when we do it ourselves, and talk about ways to combat such things. Because I could definitely use that help

Yes I agree. I do it too and I hope that by me saying that, that it is clear that I don't think I am immune from reacting out of my emotion. I'm A LOT better at not doing that, but still have a long ways to go in my relationship skills. A couple of things that help me treat people better is when I first come into contact with them I tell the person in my mind "I love you". This positions my heart to think about them from that standpoint and is very helpful.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Haha, its funny that you have brought that up, because that idea just came into my mind the other day when thinking about how to work with God and homosexuality I had like this epiphany that I should be more loving and NOT get angry at those who dont actually want to talk about it, but use the chance to make God look bad. And I actually had a really great idea put in my head, that I was sorta excited and blown away by, finding ways to help people come to me instead of trying to seek them out. You are totally right about that, going in knowing you love them is the best way to handle anything, just as Christ loved them so much that he died for them.

I have learned one thing, if you find yourself falling into angry feelings, maybe its a good thing to take a break for a day or two from the convo. At least online. I have actually done that here a few times now, I have noticed I become more "preachy" when Im angry, and start to get this know-it-all feeling take me over, that I know is not the way. If you find yourself getting negative about it, take a moment to breath and call out to God for guidance in the situation. Thats a good first step.

 

[Sirk]

Haha, its funny that you have brought that up, because that idea just came into my mind the other day when thinking about how to work with God and homosexuality I had like this epiphany that I should be more loving and NOT get angry at those who dont actually want to talk about it, but use the chance to make God look bad. And I actually had a really great idea put in my head, that I was sorta excited and blown away by, finding ways to help people come to me instead of trying to seek them out. You are totally right about that, going in knowing you love them is the best way to handle anything, just as Christ loved them so much that he died for them.

I have learned one thing, if you find yourself falling into angry feelings, maybe its a good thing to take a break for a day or two from the convo. At least online. I have actually done that here a few times now, I have noticed I become more "preachy" when Im angry, and start to get this know-it-all feeling take me over, that I know is not the way. If you find yourself getting negative about it, take a moment to breath and call out to God for guidance in the situation. Thats a good first step.

Yup....thats good advice. I would add that anger is a indication of a crossed boundary or violated core belief and we should explore whats inside us that makes us angry instead of trying to change the situation or person that "touched the nerve" in us.

 

[Jeff_56]

look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Although they say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives,’
still they are swearing falsely.”

Their evil deeds have no limit;
they do not seek justice.

“A horrible and shocking thing
has happened in the land:
31 The prophets prophesy lies,
the priests rule by their own authority,
and my people love it this way.
But what will you do in the end?

“From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
‘Peace, peace,’ they say,
when there is no peace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Are they ashamed of their detestable conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.

niv jeremiah biblegateway

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Yup....thats good advice. I would add that anger is a indication of a crossed boundary or violated core belief and we should explore whats inside us that makes us angry instead of trying to change the situation or person that "touched the nerve" in us.

Yeah! This is actually a great way to learn what /you/ are doing wrong. Haha we actually all should consider what we are doing wrong, maybe /before/ we even tell others what they are doing wrong.

And wouldnt you know it, thats already been taught to us "Before plucking the splinter of a mans eye, take the log out of your own"

look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Although they say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives,’
still they are swearing falsely.”

Their evil deeds have no limit;
they do not seek justice.

“A horrible and shocking thing
has happened in the land:
31 The prophets prophesy lies,
the priests rule by their own authority,
and my people love it this way.
But what will you do in the end?

“From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
‘Peace, peace,’ they say,
when there is no peace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Are they ashamed of their detestable conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.

niv jeremiah biblegateway

That honestly gave me chills. It had so much truth in it, and made me realize how wrong I often am as well.

I actually feel like I have come to understand God just a /little/ bit better.

 

[Jeff_56]

Yeah! This is actually a great way to learn what /you/ are doing wrong. Haha we actually all should consider what we are doing wrong, maybe /before/ we even tell others what they are doing wrong.

And wouldnt you know it, thats already been taught to us "Before plucking the splinter of a mans eye, take the log out of your own"




That honestly gave me chills. It had so much truth in it, and made me realize how wrong I often am as well.

I actually feel like I have come to understand God just a /little/ bit better.

yes. as the savior takes the log out of our eye, we may then turn and take the splinter out of our brother's eye as yahweh says to, as yahweh permits.

the terror is right around the corner, even at hand. the shaking is of heaven and earth and everything in heaven and in earth. no one will be spared, unless they have the mark of yahweh ....

[SUP]3-4 [/SUP]The Glory of the God of Israel ascended from his usual place above the cherubim-angels, moved to the threshold of the Temple, and called to the man with the writing case who was dressed in linen: “Go through the streets of Jerusalem and put a mark on the forehead of everyone who is in anguish over the outrageous obscenities being done in the city.”
[SUP]5-6 [/SUP]I listened as he went on to address the executioners: “Follow him through the city and kill. Feel sorry for no one. Show no compassion. Kill old men and women, young men and women, mothers and children. But don’t lay a hand on anyone with the mark. Start at my Temple.”


ezekiel biblegateway msg

 

[mystikmind]

If someone attacks you on this forum, praise God that they cared so (in one way or another) much they could not control themselves!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Sometimes your opponent really is a morally blighted person propagating an incorrect argument to further their own self-centered objectives.

This; however, is not usually the case. Most of the time, it's a disagreement between conflicting parties who do not fit the above profile and ad hominem enters the picture because one or more parties finds it expedient to paint their opponents as morally blighted people with bad intentions in an effort to "win" the argument.

The behavior is logically fallacious and catalogued as such in argumentation theory.

 

[Angela53510]

I think most people are not even aware they are doing this. They do not separate attacking the ACTIONS of the person, from the person themselves.

"I don't like what you are doing!"

versus

"I don't like you!"

The first can be the beginning of a dialogue, the second totally closes the door to discussion, and hurts the person. Rather than actions, or even thoughts and beliefs being the issue, the core of who the person is becomes the issue, and it usually results in tearing the person down.

I think we all need to sit back and consider our words wisely, both here and in Real Life. Is the person we dislike? Or is it their politics, habits, actions?

We may think we dislike the PERSON, when in fact, we don't like their personal grooming, or the way they approach a topic. They may be impulsive, whereas we are methodical, so we lash out at their disorganization in the wrong way.

Rather than calling out the person, we need to talk about tangible behaviours, and whether things can change. I think in many cases, people are not going to change, but understanding the person is a LONG step towards not attacking their being, or who they are.

And I am sorry someone struck out at you Sirk! You certainly have given me no indication that you deserve to be attacked. You seem to always be concerned with the person, and always have helpful comments and suggestions.

I hope you can bounce back and forgive. Yes, I guess that is the final solution to getting attacked in your character, rather than your actions. It gives us an opportunity to forgive and forget.

Not sure whether to sigh, or praise God for the opportunities he gives us in this area!

 

[Sirk]

I think most people are not even aware they are doing this. They do not separate attacking the ACTIONS of the person, from the person themselves.

"I don't like what you are doing!"

versus

"I don't like you!"

The first can be the beginning of a dialogue, the second totally closes the door to discussion, and hurts the person. Rather than actions, or even thoughts and beliefs being the issue, the core of who the person is becomes the issue, and it usually results in tearing the person down.

I think we all need to sit back and consider our words wisely, both here and in Real Life. Is the person we dislike? Or is it their politics, habits, actions?

We may think we dislike the PERSON, when in fact, we don't like their personal grooming, or the way they approach a topic. They may be impulsive, whereas we are methodical, so we lash out at their disorganization in the wrong way.

Rather than calling out the person, we need to talk about tangible behaviours, and whether things can change. I think in many cases, people are not going to change, but understanding the person is a LONG step towards not attacking their being, or who they are.

And I am sorry someone struck out at you Sirk! You certainly have given me no indication that you deserve to be attacked. You seem to always be concerned with the person, and always have helpful comments and suggestions.

I hope you can bounce back and forgive. Yes, I guess that is the final solution to getting attacked in your character, rather than your actions. It gives us an opportunity to forgive and forget.

Not sure whether to sigh, or praise God for the opportunities he gives us in this area!

great comment. I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone has attacked me I've just noticed quite a bit of it here on cc and that much of it is because of misunderstanding due to verbiage.

 

[Angela53510]

great comment. I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone has attacked me I've just noticed quite a bit of it here on cc and that much of it is because of misunderstanding due to verbiage.

I think that might have been me reading into your post. I thought so after posting, but it was too late to retract. As for RL, I felt the sting of getting attacked for who I am, not my actions today.

Your thread hit really close to home, so I am just leaning on Jesus and his love!

 

[posthuman]

Why is it that people attack others character instead of sticking to the truth about how they feel about a given subject? For example........someone would say "that is stupid".....which sort of implies that the person expressing the idea is stupid i.e.: an attack on their character........instead of simply saying....I don't like that, this is what that did for me or this is how I feel about that.

I'm not asking for you to give me an answer......I'm just raising the question as part of an honest discussion.... and yes this specific thing happened on cc and I'm not picking on anyone. It was just an example that was front of awareness for me.

usually i think people do this i think when they don't have an actual argument to make.
instead of addressing the issue, they attack the person.
it's like in sports, when it becomes obvious that one team can't win the game - some times that team that's losing starts making underhanded plays, trying to physically hurt their opponent just for the sake of some kind of satisfaction. i can't think of any game where that's not called "poor sportsmanship"

sometimes when people stop talking about the issue at hand and start talking about each other's character instead, there might be truth to what they are saying -- but i don't believe there is much point in talking any further if a discussion has degraded to that point. i don't see how continuing on in that kind of talk doesn't edify, only how it inflames and tempts to sin.

it's true though that Christ had harsh words for some of His opponents (e.g. brood of vipers! sons of the devil!) - if He hadn't done that, i would feel comfortable thinking it's wrong to insult people's character at all.

what do you think about how He said those things? what can we learn from how and when He did? it's something i don't understand well.

 

[Sirk]

usually i think people do this i think when they don't have an actual argument to make.
instead of addressing the issue, they attack the person.
it's like in sports, when it becomes obvious that one team can't win the game - some times that team that's losing starts making underhanded plays, trying to physically hurt their opponent just for the sake of some kind of satisfaction. i can't think of any game where that's not called "poor sportsmanship"

sometimes when people stop talking about the issue at hand and start talking about each other's character instead, there might be truth to what they are saying -- but i don't believe there is much point in talking any further if a discussion has degraded to that point. i don't see how continuing on in that kind of talk doesn't edify, only how it inflames and tempts to sin.

it's true though that Christ had harsh words for some of His opponents (e.g. brood of vipers! sons of the devil!) - if He hadn't done that, i would feel comfortable thinking it's wrong to insult people's character at all.

what do you think about how He said those things? what can we learn from how and when He did? it's something i don't understand well.

I think the main difference is that Jesus knew their hearts so what He was stating was fact. When we descend to that level we are doing it because we are threatened or hurt in some way. God is God and there are certain things He got to do in the person of Jesus that we don't get to......such as knowing the real condition of someones heart........ Just my thoughts.

 

[posthuman]

I think the main difference is that Jesus knew their hearts so what He was stating was fact. When we descend to that level we are doing it because we are threatened or hurt in some way. God is God and there are certain things He got to do in the person of Jesus that we don't get to......such as knowing the real condition of someones heart........ Just my thoughts.

yeah, He knows everyone's hearts.
i feel like i shouldn't talk about someone's character like that unless i am 100% sure what i am saying is true -- but how can i be sure? i barely know my own heart, much less someone else!

 

[Sirk]

yeah, He knows everyone's hearts.
i feel like i shouldn't talk about someone's character like that unless i am 100% sure what i am saying is true -- but how can i be sure? i barely know my own heart, much less someone else!

I know! My sentiments exactly! I think it is in our best interest to first assume positive intent in people until they show us differently. Even bad behaviors can have good intentions behind them.......Christ followers should try to bring that to the surface by closing our lips and opening our hearts.

 

[posthuman]

I know! My sentiments exactly! I think it is in our best interest to first assume positive intent in people until they show us differently. Even bad behaviors can have good intentions behind them.......Christ followers should try to bring that to the surface by closing our lips and opening our hearts.

yes!

i can close my lips -- but i need God to help me open my heart

** prays **

 

[Sirk]

yes!

i can close my lips -- but i need God to help me open my heart

** prays **

I have trouble closing my lips sometimes! I need help opening my heart to......

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Or, guard it if warranted as the case may be.

yes!

i can close my lips -- but i need God to help me open my heart

** prays **