Tired of the Big LIE

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

Look I'm not going to join the back and forth, but it's not a matter of Him taking it back, it's a matter of YOU throwing it back in His face. Why is that so hard to understand. With what you are saying right here, you are suggesting to me that you believe that it’s impossible for me to decide I don't want God anymore. Are you saying that if I decided right now that I no longer wanted to be a Christian anymore and did everything I could to show God I don't accept your gift anymore, that no matter what I'm stuck with it. You seem to think we are saying God will kick us out when that's not what’s being said AT ALL. I can do the same thing with what you're saying and say, "oh, you just think we get a "get out of jail free" card from Jesus and can now live however we want. Make your promise verbally in church and then you are free to live just how you have been", like Christ came here to free us from all law so we can do whatever we want from now on? See, I know good and well you don’t think that, but that is what I can make OSAS mean to me.

So it’s really perspective and how you look at it that makes all the difference. Another example of perspective I could use against you right now that would make as much sense as your point is, “I think you just like to find me and argue, and I feel this way because the kid on your avatar keeps looking at me with a mean face and with his fist up. You must love confrontation huh? I don’t because the kid on mine is raising his hands to give the Lord glory. This must mean that you are mean and I am Godly. I’m much more peaceful than you, and wiser at half your age“. Does this argument hold any water? I would like to ask you how it is you know exactly what each one of these guys believe? I say we are all brothers, you take us and divide us into 2 groups without so much as 1 question asked to the other side to try to understand what exactly they are saying at all. Whatever makes you happy with yourself. I am also wondering if I get to look forward to you disagreeing with everything I write now in every thread I comment in? I hate using ignore but if you’re going to make this a habit let me know so I can just add you.

It's not about throwing it back in His face.
I person that is truly saved would not do that.
Any person that could do that WAS NEVER SAVED !
A true believer will strive to live for Christ because he is saved not to keep his salvation.
Any person who claims he walked away from Christ, or CHOOSES to live a life in sin after saying he was saved was NEVER saved to begin with.

What many don't understand is the fact that many who claim salvation have a false assurance because they have believed a lie.

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

some of you make it sound like all that happened was that the bus slowed down enough for you to get your sleeve caught on the fender, and it's up to you to keep running at 55mph or get dragged to death.
that just doesn't seem to me like much to be thankful for ...

Jason0047 · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

First, being penitent would involve confessing your sins. Confessing and repenting of your sins is not a work. It is throwing yourself done before God's mercy. For you did not do nothing when you came to the faith. You had to take action. Did your action to receive Christ save you? I can label your action to accept and believe in Christ as a work too. For it is something that you do, right?

Second, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I am saved right here and right now by God's grace. If I slip up, I confess and forsake my sin with God's help. I don't continue to live in sin as a way of life or minimize sin. Sin is very serious. It put Jesus Christ on the cross. I believe good works are not done so as to be saved but they are merely the proof in the pudding that God lives within you (Who is.the source of your salvation).

Third, I don't claim to be perfect, either. There are times I make mistakes. The difference between us is that your OSAS Teaching minimizes sin because you tell only half the story. For if you say your future sin is forgiven, and don't say a true believer must live righteously and with a broken heart before God, you are telling people that they have a license to sin (Whether you agree or not).

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

Word_Swordsman said:

Paul confronting Peter over that issue -- is he saying Simon Peter & Barnabas had lost their salvation?
or lost sight of it ?

secularhermit · Feb 9, 2015

Whatever thing God said about me it will be OK.
His trusting is what counts, not my ideas or faith.

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

Jimbone said:

All I can do is answer for myself, but I know I am saved because the Holy Spirit came into me regenerating me and making me an all NEW CREATURE, just like everyone else who's saved. It also changed a lot of my behaviors OVERNIGHT, and since then people can unmistakably see the change in me from how I now live my life before to how I live it in Him now. I don’t think the same way, I don’t want the same things, I am COMPLETELY different than I was before. I did not change to keep my salvation up to date, the change was All due to Him living inside me and changing me, I did NOTHING. I acted one way in the flesh lost, and once He saved me I was changed (by Him) into something all new. Did you not go through this change? If so are the changes He made in your heart and behaviors just you trying to “earn” salvation? That is ALL I’m talking about, and every day I try to draw closer, not to “keep” salvation, but in loving and complete gratitude for it. It has nothing to do with my salvation status, and all to do with my love for our Lord. Understand?

Brother , I agree totally with what you just said.
It is not about keeping salvation, it is because we are saved.
A person who is truly saved will sin daily, but he will NEVER live in continuance dosibedience to God.
Any person that continues to live in sin is not saved and NEVER was saved.

Jason0047 · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

Yes, my point exactly. Folks make it sound like it is an evil thing to do good in surrendering your heart to God. If we did it when we accepted the Lord, why would such a thing stop? Surrendering one's heart is not a work and it is not in reference to the Law of Moses. It's the basic foundation of one's faith. The parable of the Tax Collector tells us that the Lord justifies those who are humble and cry out to Him so as to have mercy on their life.

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

if i could run a thousand miles at 55mph i have no idea why i would have been sticking out my thumb at the side of the road in the first place, lol!

#i-need-a-ride

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

What I underlined is not a biblical statement, as if you continue to sin daily then you are living in disobedience.
You can not have it both ways, as that is the carnal mind that Paul speaks of in Romans 8 that leads to death. We can not give into and walk in the flesh, and walk in the spirit both.
Will we mess up and back slide here and there, yes we will as we are not perfect, but to say we continue to sin daily. As in every single day we continue to sin, and even more then once a day at that is completely unbiblical. This is why the Holy Spirit was sent to us, to help us refrain from sins and letting them control your life. If you continue to do that same sin/s everyday it still controls you and is your master...

Jimbone · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

I actually do believe this "I person that is truly saved would not do that." personally, but the bible tells us in Revelation that even the Elect can be deceived.

Rev 13:12- 14
12He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

To be honest I would like to know with what exactly you disagree with me on? I think you see disagreement where there is none. I feel the same way you do, all I'm saying is these that are truly saved show that by the way they live, that's it, period. If you disagree with that then you have to be suggesting that you can be saved and live the exact same way as before salvation. Which puts them right in this group to me, "many who claim salvation have a false assurance because they have believed a lie". Where exactly is the disagreement, or what have I said you think is wrong? To be honest I think you just like to argue.

I read your last comment after this, I think we're on the same page now. Disregard any questions. Thanks.

RickyZ · Feb 9, 2015

The thing to remember on both sides is, that as a Christian, if you never plan to stick it in God's face, it's a moot issue.

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

That is true, but it still comes down to when the bus stops to pick you up do you get on and go where it goes or do you not get on and continue to do your own thing and go your own way. If you get on the bus you are choosing to go the same way it will take you.
Same way with the Lord, if you choose to accept Him as your Lord and Savior. Then you are choosing to follow His path of living a life of love, forgiveness, and mercy. If what one is doing does not fall in those categories then they are still walking their own path, and have not fully jumped into the faith in Him.

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

so what does it mean:

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(1 John 1:8-10)

?

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

i guess i always have the 'option' of jumping out the window..
i'd be a pretty insincere hitch-hiker if i did that though, wouldn't i?

either case, i'm not 'driving my own car' to get there.

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Whatever.....everyone can see....!

Here I will break it down for you to the simplest terms possible....

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

.., as we are all appointed to physical death <---notice the word ALL

MY REPLY
1. The word ALL is not found in the text<---It is appointed to men once to die<===BIBLE
2. NOT ALL WILL die....WE which are ALIVE AND REMAIN<---BIBLE

Kenneth<---ALL DIE

BIBLE<--ALL not used and some will not die

Rather simple...instead of admitting your error, you attempt to throw off the yoke by an explanation that does not JIVE with your original statement<---This is exactly what you do on a regular basis........

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I do not minimize sin, nor does anyone I know that believes in eternal security minimize sin.
No doubt there may be some false teachers that do.
Sin is a very serious matter that destroys fellowship with God and should be avoided.
Any person that claims salvation, but returns to a life of unconfessed sin, does not lose his salvation, He was never saved to begin with.
I don't MAKE MISTAKES at times, I sin daily, I confess daily, and I am forgiven daily.
While you say you do not believe in works for salvation, you do teach that works are necessary to keep salvation.

RickyZ · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

Yes you would. Do you assume there are no insincere Christians out there?

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

RickyZ said:

not at all!

the Bible tells me so --

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us;
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
(1 John 2:19)

"crept in unawares" as it were

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

This verse in 1 John does not state or point to believers continue to sin day in and day out, as in verse 2:1 he states that the writings were given so that we would not sin. Then he follows it up with if we do sin again we have an advocate in Jesus, so that when we confess that screw up we will be forgiven and cleansed of unrighteousness.
Then he follows it up in chapter 3:6 that as long as you abide in Christ you will not sin, because love will not want you to do wrong of any kind, which is what sin is. Nowhere in the bible does it give the born again believer the right to sin day in and day out everyday, as that would be walking in darkness/disobedience. Jesus, Paul, and John all make clear statements that a believer in Christ can not continue constantly in sins. Paul even mentions more then once a true born again believer will learn to have self control. If you have not learned that self control yet, it does not mean you won't, but it just shows an area that is still being worked on in you.....

posthuman · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

through all this he's encouraging the people he's writing to to abide in Christ -- presupposing that they may not always be doing so, right?
admitting that you do fall short doesn't mean you're licensing yourself to do so, right? it's confessing your need for Him in humility, i thought -- and when John tells me i'm a liar if i say i don't have sin, i believe he means i'm a liar if i say i don't have sin.
i don't believe i can look back at a single day of my life and say "i was perfect that day in every way" - if i do, i'd just be demonstrating my ignorance of the Perfect One and His way. if this is true, then it's true that every day, i sin - until that day that He returns and the work He began in me is complete.
if i take that as license to go on sinning merrily, as though i'm making His grace more perfect, what confusion i have! i would be undoing the work He is doing in me.

thank God we have such an advocate before the throne!!

Tired of the Big LIE

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