Tired of the Big LIE

[Jason0047]

We are talking about salvation - are we not? But you believe and are teaching that God lives in us - then God leaves us - God lives in us - then God leaves us . . . . . .
Since Kenneth won't answer these questions - maybe you will.

So again - you do not believe that a person is actually born again of Spirit?
And that birth is permanent?
And you believe that when one is born again - that "seed" implanted in them can be corrupted?
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life - NOT a promise we can depend on but an "only if" promise?
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved - Is IF attached to this? only if, if, if, if . . . . .

No. I believe a person is born again of the Spirit and is changed spiritually whereby they will not live a life of habitual sin anymore. If there is no change in their life spiritually, then they were never born again. They didn't truly repent of their sins and accept Jesus for real.

As for the status of our new life in Christ: It is like comparison to our physical life. A physical birth is related to the spiritual birth. But how can a person stop being physically alive? They would need to die. It is the same with the new spiritual birth. A person is born by the Spirit can also die spiritually by either backsliding into sin or apostatizing (Which the Bible speaks about at great length).

Also, I do not believe the Word of God can be corrupted. God's written Word cannot be corrupted if I sin and the Living Word cannot be corrupted if I sin. The seed of the Word cannot be corrupted regardless if a person sins, or falls away from the faith. God is Holy regardless what men do. Where does it say in the Bible that the incorruptible seed makes the believer forever incorruptible no matter what they do?

As for the if, if, if, if statements: There are many "IF" statements in the BIble in relation to your right standing with God. How can you not know about them?

 

[Jason0047]

This whole response doesn't make any sense to me. Who said anything about immortality? Who said anything about the wicked having eternal life?

I know you more than likely believe Gehenna is eternal and that the wicked will live there eternally. They will be alive eternally in fire. They will have eternal life according to you. Being alive and having life eternally in the Lake of Fire. Yes?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First, there is no lie I bought into. I have talked with many online and some in person who believe they can sin and still be saved. Many churches believe this way. They believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine.

So because they believe in it, it makes it a real gospel? And people will actually get to heaven because they believe this?

You joking right, Again, Paul, James and Jude condemned it. In fact jude said this about them.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God[SUP][b][/SUP] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

your telling me that this is a true gospel? When Jude said it is not?

There have been folks who have committed suicide believing in OSAS. So the fruit of OSAS is not good fruit but bad fruit. Many have come out of OSAS used to be a slave to their sin. Yes, I am aware of OSAS Lite that teaches you have to be penitent and holy in order to be a true believer. But this is not the major version of OSAS. Also, the problem with the OSAS Lite proponents here (If they truly are OSAS Lite) is that they only tell half the story. They say all your future sin is forgiven and yet say NOTHING of the fact that you have to live a holy life and repent of your sins in order to be classified as a true believer.

Your wrong, Legalism is more damaging, Because a person who has seen and experienced grace, sees their sin, and knows it, A person like you and the pharisees, think they are ok, but excuse there sin, They just do not call it sin, and deny it is sin, because otherwise you would have to condemn yourself.

I grew up in your gospel. and seen people fall because they hid their sin for so long, and could not get healed. or denied they had any or much sin, and were hypocrites, and not people I desired to be around.

Just because faith based gospel CAN CAUSE people to do what you claim it does (as Jude said, they creep in unnoticed, and tear the church apart0 does not mean the faith gospel is a lie.

Second, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I am saved right here and right now by God's grace because I repented of my sins and accepted Jesus as my Savior. If I sin again, I confess that sin to God and forsake it with God's help. I also do not believe the Law of Moses exists anymore. But I don't think you can ignore the moral law, though. We are not talking about if you will not mess up again or not. Christians are not perfect. But, we are talking about whether or not you live in sin habitually or not with the thinking you are saved. Some believe you can sin habitually and still be saved. And if you don't say anything about how a true believer must repent and live holy when you say future sin is forgiven, then you are sending the wrong message to people.

Your the one sending the wrong message, Your denying your own sin, and saying others who sin with sins which you can see are unrighteous,

Those people can get help. You on the other hand, like the pharisee, can not find help, because your denying your own sin.

You do preach works , you preach that salvation must be earned, thus it is a reward, or wage, which one earns, and not the gift God said it is.

if it is not of grace, it is works, You do not teach grace and mercy, you teach works and self promotion

Third, Regeneration leads a person to be changed and different whereby God lives within you and does the good work within you. The answer is not you. You don't do the works all by your lonesome. It is God that will get the ultimate credit for the good work He does in you. For Christ deserves all the glory, honor, and power.

Hey we are finally getting somewhere, Your right, it is not our good deeds, it is Gods one good deed, and his work in you.

That is why John said anyone who sins has never seen or known god, Yet you say a person can have seen God, and known him (as in once being saved) and then turn back to sin, Which would call john a liar, because he said they have NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN HIM..

Just like jesus said, Depart from me, for I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU.

they were never saved to begin with, thus they could never have lost it, they NEVER HAD IT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Carnal mind means you always set your mind and ways on the flesh.
The bible also states that you can not live both giving into the lust of flesh constantly/habitually, and belong to Him and serve Him both. This would be the luke warm person that He says He will spit out, you either chose to serve Him or you chose to serve flesh.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(For those who believe the death here is only in reference to physical death in the flesh, Paul gives you your answer in a previous scripture of the flip side of what the obedience unto righteousness leads to/is.)

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

You think this scripture proves you right?

You need to practice as you preach, and use scripture to interpret scripture.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him

1 John 3:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Eternally Grateful:

You gave a "like" to Peaceful Believer's Post #548. You told me that you do not believe in a licentious gospel. Yet she just said recently Post #553 that forsaking sin is not a requirement for salvation. I am saying this because there are OSAS proponents around you who do not believe like you do (And you don't even know it). I say this because the OSAS message is rarely taught with holiness. at least this is my experience when I debate OSAS over the many years. In fact, I usually have to twist people's arms to get them to admit they living holy and that they repent is a requirement for a true believer. I mean, Jesus said if you don't forgive, then you will not be forgiven. How on Earth can OSAS be read into that verse? Salvation is Conditional it is not locked in once you believe.

You do not know her very well. She does not believe a person does not have to admit they are sinners, and need to change their lives.

Forsaking sin is a legalistic term. I can not forsake sin before I come to God, that is impossible. I can admit I am a sinner, dead because of that sin, and can not change myself. But to say, OK God. save me and I promise to stop sinning. is not possible, and anyone who says it is a fool..

1. You can not stop all sin
2. You have no power to even change from your sin
3. Yo will never be perfect. so why would you make a promise you can not keep?


then again, You want to make God, who promised eternal life to ALL WHO BELIEVE, go back on his promise, and take the thing he calls eternal away.

So tell me, Why do you demand people make a promise they can not keep?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Use scripture to interpret scripture;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


When Paul is talking about life, he is referring to eternal life as we can see here by this comparison I just gave you.
And I saw how you put that forsaking/abstaining from sins is not needed for salvation in #553, sorry but that is what repentance, baptism, and confession is all about. In order to receive remission from sins and to turn and walk properly, if you are not walking properly then you are not obeying His commands and therefore do not receive remission of your sins. Because if you are not abstaining from your sins then you are not producing works or fruit worthy of repentance, and if you do not receive remission you will still perish is a clear teaching of the bible.

Just to make it clear to anyone reading - From post #553 - "Salvation is based on our belief in Jesus Christ - God's grace through our faith in Christ is what brings about salvation.

God knew we would not be "perfect" that is why Jesus Christ is our advocate - our defense attorney - and is why we have provisions such as 1 John 1:9. It is why we needed a Savior in the first place. Forsaking sin is NOT a requirement for salvation.

Jesus Christ came to save sinners - we do not clean ourselves up first - that is what I am meaning by "Forsaking sin is NOT a requirement for salvation. We come to Christ just as we are - sinners in need of a savior. The so-called cleaning up comes AFTER salvation although spiritually before God - I am righteous, I am justified, I am sanctified, I have been redeemed, I have been sealed with the holy Spirit. Where? In the flesh - NOPE but in that new man that God has created in me when I was born again. The flesh part is WORK - during my walk, my fellowship - there are things that I will have to work on and some things may not come easy while others will just drop away. I will not be perfect until Christ returns and rids me of this body of death.

repentance, baptism, and confession - And to me that is all rolled up into one because I would never have come to Christ in the first place if I didn't fall on my face as a sinner in of a savior.

I hope there are some that do understand what I meant when I said "forsaking sin is NOT a requirement for salvation."

Just as I am without one plea . . .
But that thy blood was shed for me and that thou bidst me come to thee
O Lamb of God, I come . . . I come.

 

[Jason0047]

So because they believe in it, it makes it a real gospel? And people will actually get to heaven because they believe this?

You joking right, Again, Paul, James and Jude condemned it. In fact jude said this about them.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God[SUP][b][/SUP] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

your telling me that this is a true gospel? When Jude said it is not?



Your wrong, Legalism is more damaging, Because a person who has seen and experienced grace, sees their sin, and knows it, A person like you and the pharisees, think they are ok, but excuse there sin, They just do not call it sin, and deny it is sin, because otherwise you would have to condemn yourself.

I grew up in your gospel. and seen people fall because they hid their sin for so long, and could not get healed. or denied they had any or much sin, and were hypocrites, and not people I desired to be around.

Just because faith based gospel CAN CAUSE people to do what you claim it does (as Jude said, they creep in unnoticed, and tear the church apart0 does not mean the faith gospel is a lie.



Your the one sending the wrong message, Your denying your own sin, and saying others who sin with sins which you can see are unrighteous,

Those people can get help. You on the other hand, like the pharisee, can not find help, because your denying your own sin.

You do preach works , you preach that salvation must be earned, thus it is a reward, or wage, which one earns, and not the gift God said it is.

if it is not of grace, it is works, You do not teach grace and mercy, you teach works and self promotion




Hey we are finally getting somewhere, Your right, it is not our good deeds, it is Gods one good deed, and his work in you.

That is why John said anyone who sins has never seen or known god, Yet you say a person can have seen God, and known him (as in once being saved) and then turn back to sin, Which would call john a liar, because he said they have NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN HIM..

Just like jesus said, Depart from me, for I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU.

they were never saved to begin with, thus they could never have lost it, they NEVER HAD IT.

While I do not agree with Legalists or Works Salvationists, I would rather trust them to watch my children than an OSAS proponent who thinks they that they can sin and still be saved.

You are repeating a lot of what I already believe in regards to salvation and you think I believe in Works Salvationism when I have argued with others over the years against such a concept. But what I do not tolerate is telling half the story. You can't say future sin is forgiven and then leave out the part about right living. That is what many here have done. Even OSAS Lite Teaching (When you don't tell the whole story) leads a person to think they have a license to sin. Pure and simple. In fact, it is only until recently that I had gotten you to admit about how a believer should live holy. Why is that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You completely misuse all of 1 John, because the context is if you are in Christ then you do not sin.
This is because if you are walking in complete and total love for Him and others you would not want to do wrong to others, and would obey all that He taught. If you are still wronging others in how you speak to them, act toward them, and even by your actions the bible makes it clear that you are not in Christ.
Why does Paul give a command to cast a member out of the church if they are walking in a willful sin if like you say we can not sin ? Obviously John is not saying there that we can't sin and future sins can not be imputed on us, or that would contradict other scriptures. What John is saying is that as long as you walk in total love you will not sin, because of course you would have no urge to do wrong. When you take this and put this with other scriptures you see that when you see it is because you have been drawn away from God by your own lusts, and if you give into them and continue to obey them they become your master again leading you to death; Unless you repent !!!

You saying we are worthy of condemnation every second, every minute, and everyday is a bad and sad way to live.
My faith and trust is in the Lord, and not on myself as I have no need by Him being my Lord to walk in fear as your statement here speaks of. If you believe you deserve to be condemned everyday, you need to pray to God more and ask for more guidance and peace through the Holy Spirit. Because it is obvious by this statement you do not have peace in the spirit yet.

I don't place myself above others, nor do I judge them as that is your false allegation. What I do is give the same warnings to believers that Paul gave to believers back then. I think Dconn would be upset with some of you, because he started this thread to disprove that it is a lie that OSAS believers teach they can live however they want, including in willful sins. Some of you are proven the this lie to be truth, by stating things like we can live carnal minded and still be saved and we will sin every second, every minute, everyday. When will you surrender your total self to God ?
If you have you would not be thinking this way about sins, and would realize as a believer you can put them off and not walk in them any more. That it is possible to go hours, days, and weeks without sinning......

No, You make John say something he did not say.

He said whoever is born of God can not sin, because he has been born of God.

Now you want to twist what he said, and turn that back to mean something else.

Sorry bro. Take john at his word, or make him a liar. thats up to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This whole response doesn't make any sense to me. Who said anything about immortality? Who said anything about the wicked having eternal life?

You do because you teach OSAS.. lol.. (rolls eyes)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal life or Immortality is a property of God. It is not a super power. No God = No life or salvation. 1 Timothy 6:16 says Christ alone has immortality. Yet folks here say people will burn for all eternity. So the wicked have eternal life, too? Everyone just naturally has eternal life? Doesn't make any sense to me. Only God has eternal life and we can only possess it by abiding in Him. The wicked will be destroyed like a branch being cast into the fire.

Christ says I come to give you life, and to give it to you more abundantly.

eternal life is eternal life.

As jesus said in John 6, Whoever eats the bread he came to give will never hunger, never thirst, never die, live forever, and be risen on the last day (have eternal life)

He was not speaking of physical death here, Thats what the people thought, and why they left him.

He was speaking of passing from death to life, (being born again) and this life being eternal in nature,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

While I do not agree with Legalists or Works Salvationists, I would rather trust them to watch my children than an OSAS proponent who thinks they that they can sin and still be saved.

Yet you do believe them, you are just like them.

You would? I would not. I want my kids to come to me and confess their sins to me, because they know I love them unconditionally. And not HIDE THEIR SIN, because they are afraid they will be judged, or worse yet, excuse their sin, because they are not as bad as the evil person across the street. so they must be ok.

You are repeating a lot of what I already believe in regards to salvation and you think I believe in Works Salvationism when I have argued with others over the years against such a concept. But what I do not tolerate is telling half the story. You can't say future sin is forgiven and then leave out the part about right living. That is what many here have done. Even OSAS Lite (When you don't tell the whole story) leads a person to think they have a license to sin. Pure and simple. In fact, it is only until recently that I had gotten you to admit about how a believer should live holy. Why is that?

here is a fact.

If you do not believe in the eternal security of the eternal soul based on the blood of Christ, and a persons faith in him (as a gift) which some people call osas.

You believe in a works based gospel. You can deny it till your blue in the face. it will never make it fact.

I can call a dog a child of God all I want, But a dog is still a dog. he may try new tricks, and stop some habits for a few days, weeks or even months,

But a dog will always return to his own vomit. because he is a dog, no matter what you try to call him,

 

[Angela53510]

The problem is with your statement though is that not all OSAS believers follow what you say.
I have gone and visited and been apart of some OSAS believing churches from the 80's to now days that do believe you can live however they want which includes willful sins and still be saved. They taught a mere believism gospel that belief only saves, and there is no need to follow and obey what the Lord said which is completely false biblical teaching. There was a big wake up call to the churches in the late 80's through the 90's on this errant teaching.

To say all OSAS believers believe this is a lie, however there are OSAS churches that do still believe and follow this lie that a person can live however they want and keep salvation. To deny that their are is also a lie.
Just like Baptist churches can not all say they believe the same way, as there are some Southern Baptist churches that will not let men come to church unless they are in a suit and tie, and women in a dress. They try and state that you are defiling the temple if you don't come nicely dressed like that. But other Baptist churches teach the true bible stance of come as you are, as we are not to discriminate by outer appearance.

It is amazing that people still think all people of the same denominational belief system all believe the same thing. You do realize that not all Catholics even follow the same principles, as some Catholic priests have even came out and spoken against the pope.

Now as for the other thing you mentioned that I seen on another posting in your blog about the results of our sins. I side with you on the fact that there is consequences for sins as conviction, chastening, diseases, unhealthy lifestyle, and so on.......However I will disagree with you on the physical death part, as we are all appointed to physical death in the flesh from Adams sin, not our own. The death that we are appointed to keep from facing by our faith, which consists of believing in Him and following what He said is the second death; spiritual death in the lake of fire.

If in our faith if we continue to obey and follow Him/His teachings then we will be part of the 1st Resurrection (eternal life), in which the 2nd Resurrection has no power over us (spiritual death).

This suit and tie business is a red herring. I have my degree from a Southern Baptist Seminary, and I have attended many Southern Baptist churches. I have never seen a suit and tie being worn, and dresses also seem to be out of vogue. Southern Baptists, and other Baptists are concerned with the heart, not outward appearance.

In fact, the only time I hav seen a suit and tie being worn was one time we let the Pentecostal Church use our church in Sunday afternoons, because they had been flooded out. It seemed rather odd to me, but we still gave them building to use, despite their formality, and believing you can lose your salvation, because it was the Chrisitian thing to do!

It is amazing the kinds of ignorant and totally irrelevant arguments people use against eternal security.

Kenneth, although you are not a Catholic, your soteriology had been heavily informed by their works + faith doctrines.

Personally, I do believe we are instructed in the Word to obey God, and walk with Christ. But losing your salvation either means that God didn't save you, you did by your works, and that God is not omniscient, that he saves people and then lets them slip through his fingers, not realizing they would turn away from hm. And that is a very small God.

 

[Jason0047]

You do not know her very well. She does not believe a person does not have to admit they are sinners, and need to change their lives.

Forsaking sin is a legalistic term. I can not forsake sin before I come to God, that is impossible. I can admit I am a sinner, dead because of that sin, and can not change myself. But to say, OK God. save me and I promise to stop sinning. is not possible, and anyone who says it is a fool..

1. You can not stop all sin
2. You have no power to even change from your sin
3. Yo will never be perfect. so why would you make a promise you can not keep?


then again, You want to make God, who promised eternal life to ALL WHO BELIEVE, go back on his promise, and take the thing he calls eternal away.

So tell me, Why do you demand people make a promise they can not keep?

Finally. The cat is out of the bag.

On one hand you just admitted that we cannot live any way we like.

But on the other hand you say,

"1. You cannot stop all sin."​

Yet Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus believed that you cannot stop all sin, then he would have never said this. No man can be perfect as the Father according to you. But Jesus says otherwise.

You also say,

"2. You have no power to even change from sin."​

Ezekiel 36:26-27 essentially says "I willl give you a new heart and a new spirit I will put within you ... And cause you to walk in my statutes."

Who am I going to believe? You or the passage in Ezekiel?

As for number 3, you are saying I will never be perfect, but as I said before, Jesus tells us to be perfect and Scripture says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

 

[Jason0047]

eternal life is eternal life.

As jesus said in John 6, Whoever eats the bread he came to give will never hunger, never thirst, never die, live forever, and be risen on the last day (have eternal life)

He was not speaking of physical death here, Thats what the people thought, and why they left him.

He was speaking of passing from death to life, (being born again) and this life being eternal in nature,

Eternal life is one that involves spiritual life now, but it will also continue on for all eternity one day in a new resurrected body.

 

[Jason0047]

Yet you do believe them, you are just like them.

You would? I would not. I want my kids to come to me and confess their sins to me, because they know I love them unconditionally. And not HIDE THEIR SIN, because they are afraid they will be judged, or worse yet, excuse their sin, because they are not as bad as the evil person across the street. so they must be ok.





here is a fact.

If you do not believe in the eternal security of the eternal soul based on the blood of Christ, and a persons faith in him (as a gift) which some people call osas.

You believe in a works based gospel. You can deny it till your blue in the face. it will never make it fact.

I can call a dog a child of God all I want, But a dog is still a dog. he may try new tricks, and stop some habits for a few days, weeks or even months,

But a dog will always return to his own vomit. because he is a dog, no matter what you try to call him,

Do you even hear yourself? I have told you I don't believe in Works Savlation and yet you are saying I am just like them. Let me ask you a question. Are you angry right now? I say this because discussing the truth should not get you upset. You should be at peace in your discussion and you should desire to love me even if you disagree with me. But I can't see how we disagree because you just repeated the same thing I agreed with in other posts. But because I am against OSAS, I believe you cannot see straight, my friend. I say this not to get you upset even more, but I say this for you to pray about it.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

What evidence do you have that Paul was using "historical present"? What I'm getting at is why don't you believe Paul meant exactly what he said?

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh serving the law of sin puts one out of covenant with Christ, fallen from grace.

Those like Paul who were formerly ruled by the law of sin could not possibly have the righteousness of God.

Paul was convincing them of the folly of going back to that instead of living by the law of life in Christ.

Instead of hanging your eternal destiny upon two verses out of context, read all of Romans 6, 7, and 8. The truth is there.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

1. . . . you do not believe that a person is actually born again of Spirit?

No. I believe a person is born again of the Spirit and is changed spiritually whereby they will not live a life of habitual sin anymore. If there is no change in their life spiritually, then they were never born again. They didn't truly repent of their sins and accept Jesus for real.

born again - Ever wonder why God chose to use the word born when talking about salvation? There are three different words that refer to our new birth - anagennao - from the Greek prefix ana meaning "again" or "up" and gennao meaning "to give birth". It means to be given birth to again, or to be born again. (1 Peter 1:3, 23); paliggenesia - from palin meaning "again" and genesis meaning "genesis" or "origin". It means to have an origin again, a new genesis. (Titus 3:5); and apokueo - from apo meaning "away from" and kueo - meaning "to be pregnant". It means "to give birth to". (James 1:18)

2. And that birth is permanent?
As for the status of our new life in Christ: It is like comparison to our physical life. A physical birth is related to the spiritual birth. But how can a person stop being physically alive? They would need to die. It is the same with the new spiritual birth. A person is born by the Spirit can also die spiritually by either backsliding into sin or apostatizing (Which the Bible speaks about at great length).

There is only one thing that is permanent and that is our birth. Death isn't even permanent because for Christians we know that Christ will raise us up and that some Christians will not even die. Our birth to our earthly parents can not become undone. There is nothing we can do can change the fact that our parents are our parents. That is who we came from through "corruptible" seed but we are born again of God's "seed" which is incorruptible. That birth cannot become undone any more than our birth from our earthly parents.

3. And you believe that when one is born again - that "seed" implanted in them can be corrupted?

Also, I do not believe the Word of God can be corrupted. God's written Word cannot be corrupted if I sin and the Living Word cannot be corrupted if I sin. The seed of the Word cannot be corrupted regardless if a person sins, or falls away from the faith. God is Holy regardless what men do. Where does it say in the Bible that the incorruptible seed makes the believer forever incorruptible no matter what they do?

Well, if you were reading 1 Peter 1:23 correctly - you would see the contrast of corruptible seed and incorruptible seed -
Being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible [seed] by or through [Gk word carries the same meaning as through] the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever. Our first birth is of corruptible seed - We are born again - not of corruptible seed - a seed that can perish and does perish but we are born again of incorruptible seed (not liable to corruption or decay) from hearing the word of God.
4. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life - NOT a promise we can depend on but an "only if" promise?
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved - Is IF attached to this? only if, if, if, if . . . . .

As for the if, if, if, if statements: There are many "IF" statements in the BIble in relation to your right standing with God. How can you not know about them?

There are NO if's attached to the verses I quoted - they can be implied but they are NOT in those verses. Christ completes my right standing before God - Christ has made me righteous. It is Christ in me the hope of glory - It is Christ in me that God sees when he looks at me.

 

[Utah]

While I am commanded to love everyone (Including my enemies), we are also told not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to rather, reprove them. So if you believe you can sin and be saved, then I am afraid for you. If this is the case: Then I would welcome you to repent of your sins for real. This means confessing and forsaking your sin and walking with Jesus Christ uprightly. For this would be the embrace of the true goodness of God's grace. For if you believe you can sin and still be saved, then what makes you think you can do evil in God's name and be rewarded with God allowing you into Heaven? Is it narrow path that leads unto life or is it the wide gate path? What is easier? To believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine or to be humble before God and confess and forsake sin? How do you know the good guys from the bad guys when you turn on the news or watch a movie? Is not a person's actions proof in what type of person they are? Was not Hitler considered evil because of what he did? Think about it.

Then don't have fellowship with me, that's on you. Jesus has fellowship with me and that's the only thing that matters.

In my two months here I have been blessed to make the acquaintance of some wonderful children of God, in fact, God willing, one brother and I will be meeting for worship and a baseball game this Summer. Imagine that, two sinners in fellowship together in the midst of many other sinners, both in worship and at the game. And what did Jesus say about two or more gathering in His name? That's right, Jesus will be with us also.

And for the record, what do you think is more humble, to admit you're a sinner in need of God's grace and guidance or telling the world you're not a sinner and not in need of God's grace and guidance? That's actually a rhetorical question.

 

[KJV1611]

The flesh serving the law of sin puts one out of covenant with Christ, fallen from grace.

Those like Paul who were formerly ruled by the law of sin could not possibly have the righteousness of God.

Paul was convincing them of the folly of going back to that instead of living by the law of life in Christ.

Instead of hanging your eternal destiny upon two verses out of context, read all of Romans 6, 7, and 8. The truth is there.

Word_Swordsman where does "the flesh serving the law of sin puts one out of covenant with Christ" come from?

 

[posthuman]

Finally. The cat is out of the bag.

On one hand you just admitted that we cannot live any way we like.

But on the other hand you say,

"1. You cannot stop all sin."​

Yet Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus believed that you cannot stop all sin, then he would have never said this. No man can be perfect as the Father according to you. But Jesus says otherwise.

so...

are you perfect, Jason?

are you completely without sin? ready and qualified to 'cast the first stone' ?

i confess i'm not. daily.