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What I believe for the most part is in my first post. I believe that when Jesus rose from the dead, He was declared the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead (Romans 1:4). And now, being the Son of God, He truely is God. Just NOT the ALMIGHTY! So now this makes true,Heb.1:8-10:But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
For a long time I could never figure out what the Holy Spirit was. I never believed in the trinity because it doesn't make logical sense when the Bible teaches that God is Spirit. So if God is a Spirit and The Holy Ghost, which most is believed to be God, is a Spirit then that means that there are two spirits who are God! So if Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost and is a seperate spirit then wouldn't that make him Jesus' father and NOT God the Father? I would ask people what is the name of the Holy Spirit and they would reply: "He's called the Holy Spirit." But if I had a dog and another has a dog and that person asks me for the name of my dog; I reply "Ralph" then ask him for the name of his dog, and in return he replies, "He's just dog." That's not a name, it simply states what he is. It frustrated me that in my favorite book of the Bible, Revelation, I couldn't find the Holy Spirit anywhere where he's given recognition for his part in being God. After much research though, I've come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is............ an ANGEL!! And as for the trinity, why is it hard to comprehend when Jesus states that He has told us all things! And again when the Father sends the Comforter, he will lead us into all truth!
D
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4
שׁמע ישׂראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃
Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
There is only ONE God, there aren't two separate God's the Father+ the Son.
There is only ONE (ECHAD) ELOHIM (God).
Echad doesn't mean "one" in a singular sense it is plural, Yachid means "one" singular.
Echad means "UNITED ONE".
שׁמע ישׂראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃
Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
There is only ONE God, there aren't two separate God's the Father+ the Son.
There is only ONE (ECHAD) ELOHIM (God).
Echad doesn't mean "one" in a singular sense it is plural, Yachid means "one" singular.
Echad means "UNITED ONE".
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If that statement is true then you must belive that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit at the same time! Please don't twist my words. The Bible states that "He makes his angels ministering spirits." The Comforter is sent to LEAD US(minister to us) into all truth. By definition that makes the Holy Ghost an angel. Jesus is not an angle. He is the Son of God.
D
Sorry, I didn't mean to twist your words.. I just misunderstood you. Here.. I will show you the Holy Spirit is not an angel.
Acts 5
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.
2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
"lie to the Holy Spirit" ........"You have not lied to men but to God"...
I would conclude Holy Spirit is God, and the Holy Spirit fits into this Godhead.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
What Scripture were you leaning on to conclude the Holy Spirit is an angel? I only see Scripture pointing towards His deity.
Acts 5
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.
2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
"lie to the Holy Spirit" ........"You have not lied to men but to God"...
I would conclude Holy Spirit is God, and the Holy Spirit fits into this Godhead.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
What Scripture were you leaning on to conclude the Holy Spirit is an angel? I only see Scripture pointing towards His deity.
G
Rev. 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and in 5:6.
What are the Seven Spirits of God
"The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord." - Isaiah 11:2
According to Isaiah 11:2, the seven spirits are:
Spirit of the Lord
Jesus Christ creates his own life within us. He gives us life, power and desires. We are guided to be perfect so that our every work becomes a Godly action.
Spirit of Knowledge
Knowledge will enable us to understand the truth. Everyone finds out solutions to work out their problems and worries, where the actual knowledge starts.
Spirit of Understanding
When a person is able to receive the things the way they are, he will proceed to gain wisdom.
Spirit of Wisdom
"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him." - John 14:26. It’s God's wisdom that helps us to judge ourselves.
Spirit of Counsel
God consoles his disciples and shows the right path in making decisions.
Spirit of Power
As a child of God, we get the power of choices. Spirits of power is the inborn talent that one gains by the age and struggle.
Spirit of the Fear of the Lord
Lord empowered us to love all human beings and animals. Try to love your enemies, so that hate will turn into love. This faith in God makes human beings to behave without any sin in their minds. These devotees bend their knees to pray to God for best wishes and care.
What are the Seven Spirits of God
"The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord." - Isaiah 11:2
According to Isaiah 11:2, the seven spirits are:
Spirit of the Lord
Jesus Christ creates his own life within us. He gives us life, power and desires. We are guided to be perfect so that our every work becomes a Godly action.
Spirit of Knowledge
Knowledge will enable us to understand the truth. Everyone finds out solutions to work out their problems and worries, where the actual knowledge starts.
Spirit of Understanding
When a person is able to receive the things the way they are, he will proceed to gain wisdom.
Spirit of Wisdom
"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him." - John 14:26. It’s God's wisdom that helps us to judge ourselves.
Spirit of Counsel
God consoles his disciples and shows the right path in making decisions.
Spirit of Power
As a child of God, we get the power of choices. Spirits of power is the inborn talent that one gains by the age and struggle.
Spirit of the Fear of the Lord
Lord empowered us to love all human beings and animals. Try to love your enemies, so that hate will turn into love. This faith in God makes human beings to behave without any sin in their minds. These devotees bend their knees to pray to God for best wishes and care.
Re 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Re 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.Re 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
When did Jehova Die? When Jesus Christ YHWH God, hung on the cross!!!!!
And even the Father Jehova Said that Jesus was God!
Heb 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Heb 1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.Heb 1:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Re 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.Re 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
When did Jehova Die? When Jesus Christ YHWH God, hung on the cross!!!!!
And even the Father Jehova Said that Jesus was God!
Heb 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Heb 1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.Heb 1:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
C
What we wreastle with is this: that three omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and etrernal being must be united in will and purpose. That some relationships, such as Jesus being the Son and the submission of the Son and the Holy Spirit, these relationships are eternal. That the NT consistantly teaches the diety of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. And we only have words to use in discussing it.
Sorry I took so long. I had to work. Didn't want you to think I was avoiding your question or finding another site to take someone elses commentary. ;-)
Let's start in Ex.3:2-6) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
We see the angel of the Lord in the burning bush and God calling moses out of it. Although this is an angel, he spoke as GOD!
Now let's dig deeper. Ex.23:20-23)
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Now we see that after Israel left Egypt, God sends an Angel to KEEP THEE IN THE WAY, AND TO BRING THEE INTO THE PLACE WHICH I HAVE PREPARED. God tells them to beware of him and obey his voice. the voice of the angel. Provoke him not, for he(the angel) will not pardon your transgressions! But how is an angel able to do this? "FOR MY(GOD'S) NAME IS IN HIM!" God then goes on to say that if they obey his( the angel's) voice and do all that I(God) speak, then God will be an enemy unto their enemies.You should know that Israel rebelled. Is:63:9-10) In all their affliction he(God) was afflicted, and the angel of his(God's) presence saved them: in his(God's) love and in his(God's) pity he(God') redeemed them; and he(God) bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10But they rebelled, and vexed his(God's) holy Spirit: therefore he(God) was turned to be their enemy, and he(God) fought against them.
Now we have 3 titles for the angel that God sent. "The angel of the Lord," The angel of His Presence," and His "Holy spirit!" One might think that this isn't refering to an angel because only God is Holy. But what were we told in Exodus at the burning bush. The angel told moses to take off his shoes because the ground he stood on was holy ground. This angel also spoke as if he was God. Why? Because God's name is in him! Besides, don't forget that angels are ministering SPIRITS! So Israel rebelled against His Angel. They did not obey his voice. So how did God turn to be their enemy?
Judges 2:1-4)
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
2And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? 3Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
How did Israel rebel towards the angel's voice? BY MAKING COVENENTS WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND AND BY NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So how was God turned to be an enemy of Israel? By NOT driving them out of the land and having them as THORNS in their sides; THERE GODS SHALL BE A SNARE UNTO YOU.
Each time the angel spoke it was as if he was God himself! Let's go to the new testament.
Luke1:11-13 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
18-20 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. 20And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.
SO NOW WE HAVE A NAME FOR THIS ANGEL! We see that Gabriel STANDS IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. We also see that because Zacharias didn't believe his WORDS(voice), he was made dumb and unable to speak. Why? Because just as Israel did in the wilderness, he did not hearken onto the SPIRIT OF TRUTH!
Nehemiah 9:18 Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;
19Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go. 20THOU GAVEST ALSO THY GOOD SPIRIT TO INSTRUCT THEM, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Gabriel's purpose is to instruct us in truth!
Daniel 8:15-16 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Once again Gabriel is instructing or teaching. So how was Daniel able to recieve the truth?
Daniel 9:20-23 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
He as we should also, kept the commandments!
Gabriel's job is to lead us and guide us into all truth.
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. Gabriel never shows on his own but is always sent by God.
30-31 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
John 14:15-17 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
24-26 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Just as in Daniel when he kept the commandments, Gabriel was sent to him to instruct him. Now Jesus states that if we keep the commandments, He will send another Comforter, that he may abide with us forever. There was no need for gabriel to be sent at this point because the TRUE LIGHT was sent into the world. And just as the angel had YHWH'S name in him when he was sent, so much more when Jesus states that He comes in His Father's Name!
Before Jesus came the Spirit or angel spoke not of himself, but whatever he was told by YHWH. So now we can get a better understanding of 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Does this point to the trinity? No! John then states the meaning of the context of this verse with heaven's Physical counterpart:
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE. The Father The Son(Word) and the Spirit(angel) are in AGREEMENT! OF ONE PURPOSE! John isn't hinting at a trinity, he's giving us a protocol. This same protocol is in Rev.1-1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED IT BY HIS ANGEL unto his servant John:
What happened to the Holy ghost. He's still there. He's the angel!
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son(Word) of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son(Word).
Who sent record of God's word to man? THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, OR BY HIS PROPER NAME....GABRIEL! This is the same one Rev 2:11 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Remember 1John 5:7? This is the protocol!
Rev. 2-11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. We agree that it was the Holy Spirit that spoke to the the churches. But from there we seperate when one chooses to once again MAKE A COVENANT WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND; NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So again what does God do? He does NOT throw them out of the land and has become a THORN in their side. THEIR GODS SHALL BE A SNARE! I choose to obey the voice of the Spirit. Rev.22:16
I Jesus have sent mine ANGEL TO TESTIFY UNTO YOU THESE THINGS IN THE CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. To whoever reads this I love you! Do not take MY WORD FOR IT OR ANYONE ELSES! YOU WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING! In Judges 2:13 we find out that Israel forsook the Lord and served BAAL AND ASHTAROTH. That's a good starting point. research these names learn what that religion involved. study the different names over the history of man. research christmas and easter. Learn why people cut down trees and decorate it with gold and silver. Learn why people paint easter eggs. I WILL NEVER TELL YOU I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS! I'M HUMBLE AND I AM NOT ASHAMED TO BE WRONG IF IT IS POINTED OUT IN SCRIPTURE. But I take my salvation SERIOUSLY! I BEG YOU TO TAKE YOUR SALVATION SERIOUSLY AS WELL!
G
Jesus Christ and God The Father(YHWH) cannot be one and the same according to what Jesus Himself said:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jesus keeps referring to His Father, why would He speak of Himself in such a way, that would be misleading! Jesus has a Father whom He speaks of and speaks to.
again, Jesus speaking:
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me
speaks for itself really
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory(God the Father's), and the express image of his person(God the Father's) and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
So when Jesus in other scripture states He is Alpha and Omega, First and the Last..must mean something else than saying He is The Father. I think God the Father and Jesus are "I AM" and both are Alpha and Omega..First and the Last in some way that I struggle to understand.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jesus keeps referring to His Father, why would He speak of Himself in such a way, that would be misleading! Jesus has a Father whom He speaks of and speaks to.
again, Jesus speaking:
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me
speaks for itself really
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory(God the Father's), and the express image of his person(God the Father's) and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
So when Jesus in other scripture states He is Alpha and Omega, First and the Last..must mean something else than saying He is The Father. I think God the Father and Jesus are "I AM" and both are Alpha and Omega..First and the Last in some way that I struggle to understand.
I quoted my own post to save time.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
People tend to make it more complicted than what it should be. Are the words we speak seperate beings? Until Jesus was born neither was God's word.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
He didn't say He saw him either but declared Him! Simply put, That which was made flesh came out of the mouth of God so to speak. God said He made heaven and earth ALONE!
In the beginning of the book of John he states that nothing was made without the Word. In Genesis God said "Let there be." From out of His mouth came the Word, that which was spoken came to be! He also spoke to make man in HIS image after HIS likeness. His words will NEVER return to Him void so at HIS appointed time, the words spoken of in Genesis was born flesh! The Word is in the bosom of the Father and now by the flesh the Father is in the bosom of the Son (Jesus). But the protocol NEVER CHANGES! In heaven the Father through the word accomplishes HIS will and good pleasure. And now Through Jesus (the Word made flesh) to acomplish HIS will and good pleasure on earth!
G
but Jesus is now resurrected and sits at the right hand of the Father, besides the worlds/heavens where made by Jesus's hands...so perhaps God spoke the Word and Jesus then made them.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
At first Glance it could seem that way but let's look at the WHOLE of the chapter.
Heb 1: 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son(the Word made flesh), whom he(God) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom(the Word BEFORE flesh) also he(God) made the worlds. Im too tired to look for direct quotes from the bible right now but God he made the heavens and the earth ALONE! I said in one of my posts that one of God's greatest gifts to man is COMMON SENSE! If in heaven before Jesus was born flesh, There existed 2 beings in with God spoke the Word and then the being called the Word executed His commands then that would flat out make God a liar! He said He was ALONE and there was NO OTHER GOD BESIDES HIM! Remember in John the word was with
God and was God. If God said that He made it alone the Logically we have to come to the conclusion that He spoke and thru that spoken word everything came to be.In Rev. it speaks of the one on the throne who made heaven and earth. Then shows where the lamb who was slain took the book out of the hand of the one on the throne. That verse in Heb was taken from the old testament in where the Lord translated means YHWH. The same God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob who raised up Jesus. So why would the author of Heb. start off the chapter stating that by Jesus, the Father made the world. I'm still studying this but from what I understand so far, the original quote does not have an "And." I believe if the author was talking about the Son of "and" in the verse would've made unmistakably clear as to whom he was refering to. But by adding the word defines what the previous verse meant. He is showing the difference between the two God's. He's showing that one God, the Father made all things and there for is the God of God(the Son).
I did not ignore scripture. Again, if you missunderstood the post then please read it again. The one of whom I quoted first, makes a beautiful point in summoning up maybe the whole meaning of the Word in the simplicity of this little, but POWERFUL Statement! Jesus said that He told us ALL THINGS; and again He said that when the Comforter comes He would guide us into REMEMBRANCE of ALL THINGS. So the answer is there for those who are dilligently seeking him! I stated in my previous post that I am learning to understand this verse as well. I don't want people to think that I think I have all the answers. I am continually in a state of correction in light of the scripture. There's only one truth and one meaning and I don't want to fall into the category of my INTERPRETATION of the Bible. I truly want to know ALL THINGS that Jesus spoke about. If in Heb. that's what was really meant. then we then have to look at it like this. In that prophesy the Son was the one accredited with creating All things. In Rev. the One on the throne is accredited with making all things. Is the Son on this throne? No it's the Father. The Identity and meaning of IAM is one of the most discussed topics about the Bible. Jesus says that He of himself can do nothing but by the WILL of the FATHER. So I look at it this way. If I say, "I am taking a walk," the word by itself can do nothing! But by the will of ME that spoke it I get off the couch and take a walk, then by the will of me that spoke "I am taking a walk," the word was accomplished. I used to love asking people this question: One cannot make nothing from nothing so what did God used to make the universe!? The only material to work with was HIMSELF! THE SELF-EXISTING ONE! So in a sense, the proverbial "BODY OF GOD," works the same way.