Tired of the Big LIE

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2015

You need to get some understanding bro.......will not rehash your works for salvation heresy as you and your working for salvation buddies refuse to hear the word of God when it comes to biblical salvation.....good luck with your works and your abilities when you stand before God.....many will come before Jesus bragging on their right to enter based upon their works and he will say...I never knew you.....

newbirth said:

Word_Swordsman · Feb 13, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Romans was written by Paul from Corinth about 59AD, to Christians in Rome about the fundamentals of Christianity. It isn't about unbelieving Israel, though that's covered as an example to Gentiles.

You believe Romans 10:9 (KJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

is all one needs to do to be saved? I disagree, for Paul takes the whole of Romans to set out the full conditions of God for salvation, that verse being but a sentence of a book about being saved. Hence, we immediately come to more context in Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We need to always focus on appropriate context, else folks get he idea it's only a mental acceptance of Jesus.

What gospel was preached that Paul referred to that "we" preach? You find out by reading the New Testament. Romans 10:17 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

No apostle or modern day minister would deliver a single verse like Rom 10:8 alone. People who had not heard the gospel would likely leave and not think about that again. There's much to the death and resurrection of Jesus, which knowledge leads to the gift of faith to follow Jesus like his disciples did.

If we love Jesus we will keep his commandments, pointing to something more than simply believing the Calvary part of the gospel, that is followers love Jesus. John 14:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

What words did Jesus give from the Father? Was it all about his death and resurrection? He had little to say about that. My point is believing is far more than any one verse, the details listed throughout the Bible, which by the way are not "the fine print", but quite explicit terms God still requires.

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2015

Sirk said:

newbirth said:

How do you know dcon hasn't "done" many things today out of a grateful obedient heart? What have you done.... did you visit orphans and widows? Lemme guess, you don't want to boast.[/QUOTE\]

One thing for sure...anything that has been done in my life that is righteous and godly has been done by Christ through me by the H.S>all glory to God......and I will boast in the faith of Christ and the salvation, justification and sanctification that is found in HIM, BY HIM, THROUGH HIM all according to FAITH......It is all about JESUS....as far as being a man....I fail the Lord on many levels, but acknowledge HIM as Lord, savior and God!

Utah · Feb 13, 2015

gzusfrk said:

Yes, I have a comment, and it's easy enough for everyone to understand:

Having Faith = Building
Your Life = House
Jesus = Rock

Now backwards for all you dyslexics.

Building = Having faith
House = Your Life
Rock = Jesus

Placing your faith and eternal state of being into the hands of Jesus = building your house on Rock.
Building your house on Rock = placing your faith and eternal state of being into the hands of Jesus.

Any more comments?

Sirk · Feb 14, 2015

Utah said:

Yes, I have a comment, and it's easy enough for everyone to understand:

Having Faith = Building
Your Life = House
Jesus = Rock

Now backwards for all you dyslexics.

Building = Having faith
House = Your Life
Rock = Jesus

Placing your faith and eternal state of being into the hands of Jesus = building your house on Rock.
Building your house on Rock = placing your faith and eternal state of being into the hands of Jesus.

Any more comments?

I'd say that pretty much sums it up.....at least for me.

endtimes · Feb 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Well lets take a look at the book of John, as per your own advice and see if you can follow your own advice.

Lets turn to the Book of John for SALVATION...

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

What is "Born Again?" ...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born again is of water and spirit, which is exactly what Peter proclaimed in the Book of Acts when asked, "what shall we do?" ...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1. Death - repent
2. Burial - water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection - Holy Ghost

You still do not believe? Here is the summation of the Death, Burial, Resurrection...

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

God bless!

royalscot · Feb 14, 2015

endtimes said:

acts 15
repent would you need a law to repent from. (acts 10 peter said you know it is unlawful for a jew,(jewish law given to them via moses) to talk to a gentile. yet god has shown me , don t call anyone from this point in time unclean.).

so peter got a vision from god, at a guess around 1-2 days before going to the gentile home. (i have no idea of the travel time it would take to get to the gentile home.)

time place acts 2 at 32 ad, yet act 15 is around 48ad.

time placement put peter in between again saying i went to a gentiles home because god shown me what is clean in his eyes(gods) not what the law of moses was telling the non christian jews. who would never talk to a gentile or enter in to a gentile home.

god bless you.

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 14, 2015

endtimes said:

True, but you misunderstand what this "born of water" actually is.

John 4, NASB
13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again;
14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

Jesus is the "living water" by which one is born again. He never says "Believe and by baptized" for salvation. He says only "Believe."

dcontroversal · Feb 14, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

No doubt an amen to this.....water immersion is a picture and public testimony of something that has already taken place by faith.......too bad many cannot understand the words LIKE FIGURE.............!

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

and exactly what part of what I wrote is do you disagree with...

salvation is in Christ...you are contending a man who is not abiding in Christ still have salvation????(are you saying salvation is not in Christ??)

Hebrews 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;(do you disagree with this scripture??)

which is faith without works....
you need to talk to James...faith without works is dead...you are contending you are saved by believing but not obeying... (are you saying you need not obey God ...simply believe...as James describe the devils???)

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

the understanding is if you believe you will be baptised....if you don't believe you will not be baptised...

the water Christ gives to drink is referring to the Spirit .....the water one is baptised in is literal water... notice he said born of water and of the spirit...to enter onto the kingdom

kennethcadwell · Feb 14, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The baptizing here is baptizo which carries a meaning of immersion in water, and the Lord Jesus clearly puts it here with a belief for being saved. Showing a true belief will not separate the two. The being saved is not talking about a timely salvation of physical life in the flesh. It is speaking of ones eternal life.

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

scripture does not teach what you are implying
usually a picture or representation comes first ...before the real thing....if you have the real thing why do you need a picture????

it is clear that the flood is referred to as a figure of baptism...look at what he says..... eight souls were saved by water....The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

1 Peter 3:18-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Utah · Feb 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

And what of people who receive the Word faithfully but die before being baptized? They are damned?

The scripture you shared does not say, he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned, it says, he that believeth not shall be damned. Faith is all you need.

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Sirk said:

newbirth said:

this is your quote bro you are the one who brought up works...now you are the one boasting of your works...

I posted salvation is in Christ....you seemed to disagree....and responded with a babble about my works for salvation....now you post salvation is in Christ..(in blue) and imply that I have no works...(in brown)and you still have not addressed Heb 5:9 because when I obey Christ you call it works for salvation....what do you call it when you obey??? it seems clear you need to obey him to attain salvation....

look at my post

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

royalscot said:

one must repent from their sins...not from the law...and what of this man ...he was not a Jew...so was this before Peter vision or after
Acts 8:27
And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

kennethcadwell · Feb 14, 2015

Utah said:

That is called circular reasoning to leave it off the second half just because it is not mentioned in the second part of that scripture which leads to issues and problems. However we have scriptures like the thief on the cross who came to the Lord at the last minute, who the Lord will have mercy on. But we also have scriptures from Paul where he says just because we are under grace and under the perfect law of liberty, we are not to use that as a n excuse to be disobedient and continue a sinful life giving into the lust's of the flesh. Paul strictly warns about that, and nowhere in the bible does it tell a person who has accepted Jesus as Lord to wait and hold off on doing what He said.
The scriptures say the opposite that to not hold off on doing His will and obeying His teachings. If you are in a church that tells you to hold off, or that you have to wait to do those things move away from them. Jesus clearly says in Luke 12 not to hold off on doing His will, because if He comes and finds you being disobedient He will cut you in two and appoint you a place with the unbelievers.

The_highwayman · Feb 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

That is called circular reasoning to leave it off the second half just because it is not mentioned in the second part of that scripture which leads to issues and problems. However we have scriptures like the thief on the cross who came to the Lord at the last minute, who the Lord will have mercy on. But we also have scriptures from Paul where he says just because we are under grace and under the perfect law of liberty, we are not to use that as a n excuse to be disobedient and continue a sinful life giving into the lust's of the flesh. Paul strictly warns about that, and nowhere in the bible does it tell a person who has accepted Jesus as Lord to wait and hold off on doing what He said.
The scriptures say the opposite that to not hold off on doing His will and obeying His teachings. If you are in a church that tells you to hold off, or that you have to wait to do those things move away from them. Jesus clearly says in Luke 12 not to hold off on doing His will, because if He comes and finds you being disobedient He will cut you in two and appoint you a place with the unbelievers.

YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS ALL.....

Jeff_56 · Feb 14, 2015

so?
just as the body without breath is dead,
so is faith without works dead.
doesn't matter if you are saved by faith or not, if there's no works, since faith without works is dead.

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

Yes, and it is Living Water -- Jesus -- that "springs up into eternal life." The only thing liquid water can do is make you wet.

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins. Do not add to the Gospel of Jesus Christ (and hint: That's what you're doing).

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