Tired of the Big LIE

[endtimes]

True, but you misunderstand what this "born of water" actually is.

John 4, NASB
13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again;
14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."​

Jesus is the "living water" by which one is born again. He never says "Believe and by baptized" for salvation. He says only "Believe."

dcontroversal: No doubt an amen to this.....water immersion is a picture and public testimony of something that has already taken place by faith.......too bad many cannot understand the words LIKE FIGURE.............!

Congratulations, BOTH of you have now changed John 3:5

From: "...Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

To: "...Except a man be born of Spirit and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."



The way to receive the "living water" (which is spirit) is to obey Peter...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1. Death - repent
2. Burial - water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection - Holy Ghost


Notice the baptism of water H20 AND receive the Holy Spirit (Burial AND Resurrection).


God bless!

 

[dcontroversal]

Congratulations, BOTH of you have now changed John 3:5

From: "...Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

To: "...Except a man be born of Spirit and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."



The way to receive the "living water" (which is spirit) is to obey Peter...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1. Death - repent
2. Burial - water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection - Holy Ghost


Notice the baptism of water H20 AND receive the Holy Spirit (Burial AND Resurrection).


God bless!

Congratulations as you seem blind to the fact that the water is indicative of being born of the flesh and then of the spirit...

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit.....keep reading and go study (LIKE FIGURE).........

 

[dcontroversal]

scripture does not teach what you are implying
usually a picture or representation comes first ...before the real thing....if you have the real thing why do you need a picture????

it is clear that the flood is referred to as a figure of baptism...look at what he says..... eight souls were saved by water....The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

1 Peter 3:18-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21[/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

This just shows and reeks of ignorance, and I see your working for salvation buddies joined you in liking heresy.....

Jesus was THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH BEFORE HIS IMMERSION

The (assembly) of the firstborn in the wilderness were delivered by BLOOD before the collective picture of immersion in the red sea

The later generation LOOKED to the LIFTED SERPENT and were preserved BEFORE collective immersion in the JORDAN

So...keep trusting into your watered down blood and works for NO SALVATION and wait and see......

Baptism is a PICTURE and PUBLIC TEASTIMONY that you have believed and IDENTIFIED yourself with the resurrection of JESUS..........

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<---NO WATER AND OR WORKS HERE!

 

[dcontroversal]

And what of people who receive the Word faithfully but die before being baptized? They are damned?

The scripture you shared does not say, he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned, it says, he that believeth not shall be damned. Faith is all you need.

Amen to this as well...not to mention ALL of the scriptures that teach a grace/faith based eternal salvation.....what can you expect from people who have trusted into a gospel that has no power to save......like the Pharisees...blind to the truth they are!

 

[dcontroversal]

YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS ALL.....

AMEN to that....too bad they will not find out until the day they are bragging about their works and right to enter to only be cast from his presence because they trusted into themselves and their wonderful works............!

 

[dcontroversal]

so?
just as the body without breath is dead,
so is faith without works dead.
doesn't matter if you are saved by faith or not, if there's no works, since faith without works is dead.

Well, Paul said a man is JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS>>>>>so it is evident that you do not understand the word JUSTIFIED!

 

[3Scoreand10]

However we have scriptures like the thief on the cross who came to the Lord at the last minute, who the Lord will have mercy on.
.

So now you are saying baptism is necessary EXCEPT----
It is not necessary for those who don't have time to be baptised.
Since you always like to use scripture to prove what you say, where can I find thid in the bible?
TWO plans of salvation now!

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

Acts 26:20 English Standard Version
"but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

 

[endtimes]

Congratulations as you seem blind to the fact that the water is indicative of being born of the flesh and then of the spirit...

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit.....keep reading and go study (LIKE FIGURE).........

You now have Jesus telling Nicodemus, something like this...

"Nicodemus, you must be born of a natural birth of a woman (because water does not mean water), so-as to grow up and live out your life until this moment, that I now give you this great revelation: You must be born of a natural birth from a woman, therefore all you need do is nothing but to receive the Holy Spirit."


Lets take a look at John 3:5, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[SUP]G5204[/SUP] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


Thayer Definition:
G5204

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea


Lets look at an example: water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


Jesus said, "Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."



God bless!

 

[notuptome]

You now have Jesus telling Nicodemus, something like this...

"Nicodemus, you must be born of a natural birth of a woman (because water does not mean water), so-as to grow up and live out your life until this moment, that I now give you this great revelation: You must be born of a natural birth from a woman, therefore all you need do is nothing but to receive the Holy Spirit."


Lets take a look at John 3:5, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[SUP]G5204[/SUP] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


Thayer Definition:
G5204

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea


Lets look at an example: water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


Jesus said, "Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."



God bless!

Are you suggesting that Jesus needed baptism to have a Spiritual birth?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

This just shows and reeks of ignorance, and I see your working for salvation buddies joined you in liking heresy.....

Jesus was THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH BEFORE HIS IMMERSION

The (assembly) of the firstborn in the wilderness were delivered by BLOOD before the collective picture of immersion in the red sea

The later generation LOOKED to the LIFTED SERPENT and were preserved BEFORE collective immersion in the JORDAN

So...keep trusting into your watered down blood and works for NO SALVATION and wait and see......

Baptism is a PICTURE and PUBLIC TEASTIMONY that you have believed and IDENTIFIED yourself with the resurrection of JESUS..........

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<---NO WATER AND OR WORKS HERE!

answers are found in scripture...my friend ...after Jesus was baptised and filled with the HS and tempted by the devil....
are you contending that Jesus did not receive the HS at baptism????
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 4:10-29King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

[SUP]19 [/SUP]To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

 

[newbirth]

And what of people who receive the Word faithfully but die before being baptized? They are damned?

The scripture you shared does not say, he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned, it says, he that believeth not shall be damned. Faith is all you need.

but it says exactly who will be saved...why do you separate what God has put together...the word says believe and is baptised ...you say believe alone...do we believe you or the scripture????


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Jeff_56]

if someone is willing, they will (yahweh willing) find that yahshua was called son by yahweh before his birth.

also,
before then,
as is well known in scripture,
yahweh and yahshua dwelt together/ shared the same glory, for eternity before anything was even created.

almost no one is ready for this yet.... but with time, yahweh willing.... well, yahweh knows.

 

[newbirth]

if someone is willing, they will (yahweh willing) find that yahshua was called son by yahweh before his birth.

also,
before then,
as is well known in scripture,
yahweh and yahshua dwelt together/ shared the same glory, for eternity before anything was even created.

almost no one is ready for this yet.... but with time, yahweh willing.... well, yahweh knows.

but it is only as Jesus he was born in the flesh....(the only begotten of the Father) God also being the Father of that body ...that is referring to the flesh/ body...but he Spirit is from everlasting(the Word that was with God... the Word that was God...the Word that was made flesh)...at baptism the body was filled with the Spirit of God...which is the same Word of God......
Hebrews 10:5

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[Utah]

but it says exactly who will be saved...why do you separate what God has put together...the word says believe and is baptised ...you say believe alone...do we believe you or the scripture????


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

There you go asking me questions again without answering my question to you twenty pages ago. Typical condescending Pharisee shutting out the Kingdom of Heaven against man. You're adding to John 3:16 by stating baptism is necessary. The thief on the cross wasn't baptized. Why do you discredit the glory of Jesus Christ by shutting out the Kingdom of Heaven against man? Silly Pharisee.

 

[Utah]

The way to receive the "living water" (which is spirit) is to obey Peter...

Obey Peter? Obey Peter?!!!

You do what you're led to do; I'll obey Jesus, my Lord and Savior.

 

[dcontroversal]

You now have Jesus telling Nicodemus, something like this...

"Nicodemus, you must be born of a natural birth of a woman (because water does not mean water), so-as to grow up and live out your life until this moment, that I now give you this great revelation: You must be born of a natural birth from a woman, therefore all you need do is nothing but to receive the Holy Spirit."


Lets take a look at John 3:5, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[SUP]G5204[/SUP] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


Thayer Definition:
G5204

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea


Lets look at an example: water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water[SUP]G5204[/SUP]: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


Jesus said, "Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."



God bless!

I suggest you read down 1 (ONE) more verse and put it in context....you would have water baptism come before SPIRIT and BLOOD.......THE BLOOD before water and water is a picture of what the BLOOD has done by the resurrection of JESUS...not to mention that immersion is a WORK of righteousness and we are not saved BY WORKS....

Again...what exactly does LIKE FIGURE MEAN from the GREEK.........?

Nice try...but no cee-gar! Our salvation rests secure in Christ by faith void of water and works.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

answers are found in scripture...my friend ...after Jesus was baptised and filled with the HS and tempted by the devil....
are you contending that Jesus did not receive the HS at baptism????
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 4:10-29King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
[SUP]14[/SUP]And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

[SUP]19 [/SUP]To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

I suggest you study very hard and open your eyes.......Jesus was BORN OF GOD'S SPIRIT almost 29 to 30 years before his immersion, was called HOLY and the SON of GOD from birth and did not receive the SPIRIT by measure......

OPEN YOUR EYES......BAPTISM is an IDENTIFIER just as CIRCUMCISION was and both were/are the result of FAITH and SONSHIP BEFORE either one of them of them are administered........

Wake up to the truth!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can't go to the epistles to get saved, they were written to those already saved, telling then how to stay saved.

1. The four gospels introduce us to Christ.
2. The Book of Acts tells us how to get saved.
3. The epistles were written to those already saved, telling then how to stay saved.


God bless!

why would you even do this. Paul told timothy he knew as a young child how to be saved, and all he had was the OT scripture.

did God add to the gospel things in the NT, he did not have the OT believers who trusted him do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mark 16:16


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



The baptizing here is baptizo which carries a meaning of immersion in water, and the Lord Jesus clearly puts it here with a belief for being saved. Showing a true belief will not separate the two. The being saved is not talking about a timely salvation of physical life in the flesh. It is speaking of ones eternal life.

No. Baptizo does not mean an immersion in water. It does in the greak to be immersed. but Mark does not tell us what we are immersed into. It is obvious that it is the HS. Because as paul again said, Timothy had enough scripture as a child to be saved completely. all he had was the OT, no water baptism in the ot (except for a gentile wanting to convert to judiasm, and a priest being consecrated as priest)

Nice try though.