Can a Christian be sinless, perfect?

michael56 · Feb 14, 2015

Jeff 56 wrote

'''Hizikyah, thank you for replying to his/her/its reply . but as you saw, his reply did not make sense at all. he is not learning truth or faith or from yahshua.... it's like a bot replying by programming without being able to learn.... whether it's the same as the sin that leads to death, i don't know, so if we can pray for him, her or it, we pray.... replying has seemed like the right thing to do, but it doesn't listen and doesn't learn... its replies make no sense at all.. and indeed cannot, for when truth is rejected, nothing is known, nothing at all.'''

You wrote the above post. Is that an example of you living a sinless lifestyle? Just wondered

Jeff_56 · Feb 14, 2015

absolutely , speak as the father speaks in all things, reproving whom he reproves, encouraging when he encourages, calling out when he says call out. and repenting if ever tricked into sinning or for any reason at all sinning. (these all apply to us all who are immersed in yahshua, abiding constantly through all things in him).

do you want to have life ? or death ? to remain in error, in sin, or to have truth, joy, and peace AND righteousness in yahshua hamashiach (the gifts of yahweh in him that he says all ekklesia have)
as it is written in torah (scripture).

Jeff_56 · Feb 14, 2015

as far as the abomination, if that's what you were thinking of falsely defending ,

this simple testimony from ekklesia serves enough to make the point : (that rcc is antichrist)

"Several months ago that young lady went to confession. While there, the priest asked her where she was working. She told him that she was working for the American Bible Society. He said, "You'll have to stop that." She inquired why adding that she thought it was wonderful to spread God's Word. His answer was that such furthers Protestantism. If the distribution of Bibles and Testaments free from anything other than the Word of God furthers Protestantism, what can you say for Catholicism? Could there be any stronger indictment of the Catholic Church as a man-made religious organization than that?...."

the young lady was soon after that free of the antichrist religion of the rcc, and immersed in a true ekklesia in yahshua's name.

Elin · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

Agreed. . .Ro 1:18--3:20 establishes the unrighteousness of all mankind,
beginning with Ro 1:18-32 which establishes that the pagan Gentiles are all unrighteous for suppressing the truth about God by their wickedness.

Correct. . .the NT epistles are addressed to believers in Jesus Christ.

But in these epistles, the sin of the world and God's judgment on that sin is sometimes discussed,
as it is in Ro 1-3.

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

michael56 said:

you are missing the point God says it is attainable so it is and he helps us to attain....and that is our goal....you are saying we cannot do it so there is no need to try...he will help us anyway...

michael56 · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

We are works in progress all our lives, but biblical perfection is not perfection according to perfectly upholding the entire law of God. For example:
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:27

Elin · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

Not talking about old sins which were forgiven when I came to faith.

Talking about sin since then.

Am talking about that. . .confessing any sin after I came to faith when my past sin was forgiven.

Jeff_56 · Feb 14, 2015

remember someplace yahweh says that simply bringing back a sinning brother to the right path(to not be sinning)
covers a multitude of sins for the one bringing the brother back to the right way of living (instead of sinning).

so just by restoring brothers who are sinning against yahweh, a man can cover a multitude of his own sins (they are gone forever, yahweh declares)....

that helps and leads to life instead of judgment.

yahweh never says to just let a brother go on sinning if you see him, unless or except when it's a sin that leads to death (as yahweh reveals this),
and then to not even pray for such a one.

in fact, to let a brother go on sinning without warning him, his blood may be on your hands (however yahweh or yahshua choses to adjudicate this);

and to continue in fellowship with any brother who keeps on sinning without repenting, is directly opposed to yahshua's instructions to true believers who are immersed in him.

so yahweh's instructions must mean something that those who want to keep on sinning don't want to comply with,
OR even those who don't want to sin (who want to be true followers of yahshua, real and not just fake christian lives), just don't understand, since yahweh's word is true.

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

Elin said:

you insist that pagan gentile are suppressing the truth...Jesus Christ is the truth pagan gentile do not have Christ in them...it is a general statement even to those who know Christ....God will not tolerate any unrighteousness...

at least we agree on something...

God's Judgement is against sin/disobedience/unrighteousness...which cannot happen in Christ.....if you say you are in Christ and commit sin God calls you a liar...liars do not inherit the kingdom...God has given us a sure way to rid ourselves of sin...
first he says don't sin...if it were not possible he would not have said it...so we must try not to....and if we do sin....
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Elin · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

That is not its meaning in Ro 1:18-32.

The truth to which Ro 1:18-32 is referring is explained in Ro 1:19-23.

In context, that is not what it is stating.

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

Elin said:

well when God forgave you of all your past sins were you not perfect and sinless....or did he leave some unforgiven??? it is the only way one can enter the kingdom....and he has provided you with all things that pertains to life and godliness....so why would one be rolling around in sin calling them self a sinner....because they lack the knowledge of Christ
2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

newbirth · Feb 14, 2015

Elin said:

and what does vs 21 say???...you are contending a pagan gentile knew God.....

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

what then is it stating????
are you saying ignorant pagan gentile have Christ in them???
are you saying God gave up the ignorant pagan gentile...????God sent his word to the ignorant pagan gentile....it is those who after knowing God when he revealed himself to them and they rejected him ...it is those who are given up...

gotime · Feb 14, 2015

michael56 said:

Friend I am sorry but I disagree, and I repeat that anyone who does not believe that we can cease from sin does not know the power of God.

gotime · Feb 14, 2015

michael56 said:

now now, that is not for you to say. You do not truly know if this person obeys or not.

michael56 · Feb 14, 2015

gotime said:

If
you become perfect in the flesh, then you will know if your belief on this matter is correct. Let that be your proof

gotime · Feb 14, 2015

Friends the Gospel is simple and powerful.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

how do we escape our past sins?

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How do we escape future sins?

Well first where does sin come from?

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Sin is in me, that's not good where exactly is it in me?

Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

My heart, but I can't change that how can I be free if sin is in my heart?

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

That's it David, who better to help than the creator of the world. For if He created us once in His image then surely He can do it again. But will He?

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Praise be to God He gives us a new heart and his Spirit so that we can keep his judgments and walk in His statutes.

God does not give us an evil heart but a good one with the law written on it. Heb 8:10.

This is called new birth, First birth had the evil heart, new birth has a brand new heart.

This is the work of God and thus can only be a reality by faith.

Let me ask you, if we broke the law/sinned with the old evil heart, what will we do when God transform's us by His own great power? Gives us a new heart?

Can salt water come out of a pure spring? Can a good tree produce bad fruit?

Elin · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

Only 'cause I luv ya'. . .you little twit.

Read the text:
"what may be known about God is plain to them, because God made it plain to them,"
in creation (vv. 19-20).

This is the pagan knowledge of God to which v. 21 is referring, the knowledge made plain
in creation (v. 20), which leaves them "without excuse" for not glorifying God, not giving thanks
to him, and instead worshipping idols.

No, Paul is establishing the unrighteousness of all mankind in Ro 1-3,
beginning with the Gentiles in Ro 1:18-32,
then going to the unrighteousness of the Jews in Ro 2:1-3:8,
and concluding with the unrighteousness of all mankind in Ro 3:9-20,
to establish the spiritual condition of all mankind as sinners and in need of salvation.

He then introduces that salvation in Ro 3:21, which has been provided by God through Jesus Christ
and his redemptive work on the cross. However, God's provision must be received by faith--the
principle by which God has always dealt with mankind, as the example of Abraham (Ro 4) shows.

And then he moves on to the Christian doctrine of Christian righteousness in chps 5-8,
the vindication of God's righteousness in the rejection of unbelieving Israel in chps 9-11,
and practice of righteousness by the believer in chps 12-15.

Elin · Feb 14, 2015

newbirth said:

I won't be sinless until I no longer have a fallen nature, until I have a sinless disposition.

And that is not this side of glory.

I am, however, complete (perfect) in Christ now.

Elijah19 · Feb 14, 2015

It isn't a contradiction for Jesus to say "be perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" then say "No one is good accept God". Jesus is talking about the heart. We cannot be perfect in action, but our souls can be clean in God's book. In this way, it is perfectly possible to "be perfect even as the Father is perfect" in terms of our spiritual condition, yet have "no one is good except God" because we will always be carnally attached to this world and able to sin until we pass on.

But to answer your question... No and Yes. Christians cannot be sinless in this world, but will be in the next.

gotime · Feb 14, 2015

michael56 said:

Friend Faith does not wait till it sees to believe, for it will never see until it believes.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Faith comes by the word of God:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I do not need to attain to believe, I do not say to God Ill believe it when I see it. No rather I plant my faith firmly on His promises and push forward to the High calling we have in Christ. Knowing that He is able to do all that He has promised.

God Has promised to direct our very thoughts:

Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

and again:

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

He has promised to give me a new heart and His Spirit:

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He has promised to make a way out of every temptation that comes to me:

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

He has promised that though I am weak His strength will manifest.

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

He has promised to direct my paths to not look at the impossibility but to look to Him:

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

He has promised to keep me from falling/sin:

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

You say it is impossible to cease form sin, I say how can we fail if our faith is planted in the promises of His word?

I say its impossible to walk on water, yet Peter did it as he followed the example of Jesus. And as long as his eyes were on Jesus he was able to do the impossible in Gods power not His own.

Peter fell when he looked at the problem, could it be that you are doing as Peter did? focusing on the impossibility instead of the promises of our God. Its time to get out of the boat friend, all things are possible with Jesus in our gaze.

Can a Christian be sinless, perfect?

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