God is not Mysterious

[MyLighthouse]

And not a single one in a newspaper? Or national news? This sort of thing would turn the world upside down if it really happened.

I'm sorry, either things arent quite as your making them out to be, or your wrong.

Care to go into more detail?

No I don't mind. What details are you wanting?

It's quite normal, that happens in the church and on mission a lot, and probably not big because it happens in the medical field quite often. I'm surprised you haven't seen or heard? What about body parts growing on peoples bodies or bones, or the most common ones such as cancer, wheel chairs, deaf, and blind being healed? Is my church and family the only ones who experience this really? I wouldn't think so, it's common I thought Maybe it's denomination, what one do you attend? Maybe Church of Christ?

 

[ColinCat]

Case closed!

Of course I'll want proof, its a rather substantial claim to make, and a claim like that requires substantial evidence.

Things like that don't just go on without it making international news.

 

[ColinCat]

No I don't mind. What details are you wanting?

It's quite normal, that happens in the church and on mission a lot, and probably not big because it happens in the medical field quite often. I'm surprised you haven't seen or heard? What about body parts growing on peoples bodies or bones, or the most common ones such as cancer, wheel chairs, deaf, and blind being healed? Is my church and family the only ones who experience this really? I wouldn't think so, it's common I thought Maybe it's denomination, what one do you attend? Maybe Church of Christ?

Show me proof of these limbs being restored and blind people seeing and the deaf hearing etc. Because I honestly don't believe it. And that's not just me being argumentative. I genuinely think you are making absurd claims and they need to be backed up with evidence.

 

[Reborn]

Case closed!

You're right.

I demanded the same for the "speed of light" theory.
How?
I switched on a lamp, and had a cop use his LiDAR gun to clock it.

They lied,
It was slightly under 186,000 miles per second.

Since they can't prove to me, that light does one of the things they claim it does........
I threw it all out....

I don't believe in light anymore.

So Colincat, if you say to me that "you can see light, Reborn"

Tell me how would you prove to a blind person that light existed?

Bet you can't.

 

[Reborn]

Here let me help you bro.

God is all around us...EVERYTHING around us, screams a Creator.
It's obvious to us. We see the light.
You choose not to see it....you remain blinded. (by your choice and free will, btw)

I ask again.

How can you prove to someone who is blind (an Atheist) that light (God) exists?
You can't.

BTW, is your PS4 fixed yet?

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Show me proof of these limbs being restored and blind people seeing and the deaf hearing etc. Because I honestly don't believe it. And that's not just me being argumentative. I genuinely think you are making absurd claims and they need to be backed up with evidence.

What proof do you expect to find on an internet forum? Where do you get all your proof from? Fox News, CNN, Youtube, the U.N., Charles Darwin, the History Channel, CERN, Trinity Broadcasting Network, Pope Francis, Stephen Hawking, Michelle Obama, Corporations and the scientists hired by them, Governments, Hollywood, Church of Scientology, George Bush?

Show me proof of anything on this forum. Truth and proof are hard to come by.

Show me proof the Bible isn't the Word of God, show me proof God doesn't answer prayers and that people haven't been healed

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

I haven't witnessed any healing miracles myself, but then again I don't really know more than a couple Christians and Ive never met any Christian with enough faith and that walked close enough with Christ to even attempt such things. We only see the frauds in the media, giving Christ and Christianity a bad name while becoming wealthy because Satan and his human minions would never allow such things on their masses brainwashing network.

 

[JimmieD]

Skeptics often challenge Christians to prove that prayers are answered, and we often hear the same thing: "God's ways are mysterious". This is said so that scientific experiments that disprove the power of prayer are discounted as having an extra variable that can't be accounted for -- God's will.

But why should that be "variable"? Christians claim that God's nature is consistent and doesn't change over time. In fact, this perfect consistency ought to make God the most predictable being in existence, and not even slightly mysterious. If God answered someone's prayer for healing but not another person's, then the reason should be discoverable in principal if not also in practice.*

Maybe God's will is to, at least sometimes, act utterly freely and so, apparently to us, act unpredictably? Why restrict God's nature to that of a cosmic computer?

*On the topic of healing, the New Testament is extremely consistent. Jesus healed everyone who asked for it, never once citing a greater need for someone to remain sick or to die from sickness. If prayer is actually answered, then prayers for healing ought to never be answered with a "no" if Jesus' nature hasn't changed.

What do you think "nature" means in this context? Why do you think a choice to act or not-act change an object's nature? I don't think it would. Maybe it's God's nature to be free, and so he's not constrained to always do one thing or another?

 

[stabbo]

I see what your saying here and I guess if your looking at it in that way it would sound like I'm wanted to be noticed. That's definitely not the case, I was just expressing the hurt my heart (fasting in the OT was closely related to times of grief, or great need or repentance, etc.), because unlike in person to person, one can't see the concern online. The scripture in the NT about fasting is showing that their hearts were wrong, this is related to the scripture in Isaiah about fasting also.

I apologize to you and anyone who took that as a self-righteous thing!

The hurt in your heart? When I was a christian I used to have that feeling for the lost. But after I deconverted that hurt for lost people left me. Sometimes I still feel hurt over how lost people are, but I know thats just a fault with my understanding

 

[stabbo]

No I don't mind. What details are you wanting?

It's quite normal, that happens in the church and on mission a lot, and probably not big because it happens in the medical field quite often. I'm surprised you haven't seen or heard? What about body parts growing on peoples bodies or bones, or the most common ones such as cancer, wheel chairs, deaf, and blind being healed? Is my church and family the only ones who experience this really? I wouldn't think so, it's common I thought Maybe it's denomination, what one do you attend? Maybe Church of Christ?

A faith healing test all christians should take.

If you feel and broke your leg and you were in tremendous pain, say a christian friend was there and wanted to drive you to the hospital. Knowing God can heal you do you,

A. Ask your christians friend to drive you to the hosptial.
B. Ask your christian friend to pray with you and dont drive to the hospital.
C. Ask your christian friend to drive you to the hospital and pray along the way.

Your answer will demonstrate how much you depend and trust on the healing power of faith

 

[ChristInUs]

A faith healing test all christians should take.

If you feel and broke your leg and you were in tremendous pain, say a christian friend was there and wanted to drive you to the hospital. Knowing God can heal you do you,

A. Ask your christians friend to drive you to the hosptial.
B. Ask your christian friend to pray with you and dont drive to the hospital.
C. Ask your christian friend to drive you to the hospital and pray along the way.

Your answer will demonstrate how much you depend and trust on the healing power of faith

If your leg is broke then start praying on the way to the hospital and if you are still in pain ask for morphine while you are praying. God gave us doctors for these events. Never, never, sit at home in pain waiting. God will say well I gave the doctor and the drugs to stop the pain but you didn't use it.

Flood came and as the water starting rising aman came by with a wagon and said join us we are going to higher ground. The man said no God will deliver me. Water rose and a man came by on a horse wading through the water as He sitting on top of his house. The man said no God will deliver me. The water rose and man came by on a boat and said come with me, the man said no God will deliver me. The water rose and he drowned and heavens gate he said Lord why did you not deliver me. The Lord said I sent you a wagon, and a horse, and a boat.

When you are in pain you will say doc do whatever to make it stop.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

A faith healing test all christians should take.

If you feel and broke your leg and you were in tremendous pain, say a christian friend was there and wanted to drive you to the hospital. Knowing God can heal you do you,

A. Ask your christians friend to drive you to the hosptial.
B. Ask your christian friend to pray with you and dont drive to the hospital.
C. Ask your christian friend to drive you to the hospital and pray along the way.

Your answer will demonstrate how much you depend and trust on the healing power of faith

I think this is a good idea honestly. Not as a test, because then it won't work (from what I read in the Scriptures). Just go to the hospital and heal people out of love in the name of Christ. The Bible makes it clear that those who walk with Christ will be able to do miraculous things through prayer.
My wife had stage 3 ovarian cancer, I did pray for her to be healed, but I don't know if God answered that or not to be honest. She was afraid to get it taken care of and put if off for a couple years. When she finally went back in to see how far it progressed, they said it was completely gone. I guess I thought that if God truly did heal her, that I would actually know that it was Him or not. Plus, I prayed it in private, I guess part of me feels like I should have done it out loud in front of her to be answered. Like an act of faith instead of wishful thinking behind closed doors. But these are all just fleshly thoughts not really based off of Scripture.

I have always felt like the church and the Christians I have known have a form of godliness but deny its true power. They just run around, living by the worlds rules, bound by their worldly reality as if God was not powerful, as if He didn't say all the things He really said (He said some crazy, supernatural stuff lol). They "just try to get by" instead of walking boldly in faith. I always intended to be different, I always wanted to be the Christian that I always wanted to be able to look up to, a true man of God whose faith was not swayed by anything. Who understood that reality is not just what we see with our eyes. Who did not check his bank account to figure out whether or not he could just "go" and start doing the work of the Lord. In Acts, the early Christian would simply sell all their possessions and their properties and give as was needed. Try finding a Christian in America who has such faith. I still intend to get to that point with Gods help. It just became more difficult to figure out once I had children

 

[stabbo]

I think this is a good idea honestly. Not as a test, because then it won't work (from what I read in the Scriptures). Just go to the hospital and heal people out of love in the name of Christ. The Bible makes it clear that those who walk with Christ will be able to do miraculous things through prayer.
My wife had stage 3 ovarian cancer, I did pray for her to be healed, but I don't know if God answered that or not to be honest. She was afraid to get it taken care of and put if off for a couple years. When she finally went back in to see how far it progressed, they said it was completely gone. I guess I thought that if God truly did heal her, that I would actually know that it was Him or not. Plus, I prayed it in private, I guess part of me feels like I should have done it out loud in front of her to be answered. Like an act of faith instead of wishful thinking behind closed doors. But these are all just fleshly thoughts not really based off of Scripture.

I have always felt like the church and the Christians I have known have a form of godliness but deny its true power. They just run around, living by the worlds rules, bound by their worldly reality as if God was not powerful, as if He didn't say all the things He really said (He said some crazy, supernatural stuff lol). They "just try to get by" instead of walking boldly in faith. I always intended to be different, I always wanted to be the Christian that I always wanted to be able to look up to, a true man of God whose faith was not swayed by anything. Who understood that reality is not just what we see with our eyes. Who did not check his bank account to figure out whether or not he could just "go" and start doing the work of the Lord. In Acts, the early Christian would simply sell all their possessions and their properties and give as was needed. Try finding a Christian in America who has such faith. I still intend to get to that point with Gods help. It just became more difficult to figure out once I had children

If God wont let his believers test their faith, how will they ever know how much they have and if they can do anything with it?

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Let me rephrase that last part of my post. It didnt get more difficult to figure out, the stakes just got higher for that level of faith. But every part of my being is constantly screaming that I do not need to fear. I just need to spend more time in prayer with God. My walk with the Lord has been a progressive thing, I feel like everything in my life has been teaching me and leading me to something greater. Since I was young I prayed that God would do whatever was necessary to mold me to be useful, to make me a person "after His heart". And my life has been crazy, I have learned to love people who have hurt me so deeply that words could never express. I have learned to trust God in ways that most people could never imagine. When I tell people what I have experienced and the events of my life and how I still trust God, they think I am crazy and deceived, even Christians.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

If God wont let his believers test their faith, how will they ever know how much they have and if they can do anything with it?

I don't know. But I don't think its all up to us alone. I think God has a part in the creation of such faith. There have been many many many people greater than me, who have given up everything to follow Him. Maybe there are even some on this website. Let them answer and maybe we both can learn something

 

[stabbo]

Let me rephrase that last part of my post. It didnt get more difficult to figure out, the stakes just got higher for that level of faith. But every part of my being is constantly screaming that I do not need to fear. I just need to spend more time in prayer with God. My walk with the Lord has been a progressive thing, I feel like everything in my life has been teaching me and leading me to something greater. Since I was young I prayed that God would do whatever was necessary to mold me to be useful, to make me a person "after His heart". And my life has been crazy, I have learned to love people who have hurt me so deeply that words could never express. I have learned to trust God in ways that most people could never imagine. When I tell people what I have experienced and the events of my life and how I still trust God, they think I am crazy and deceived, even Christians.

First i'd like to say, didnt jesus say "even faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains" do any christians have faith that much? and if they do why are us non believers never seeing "mountains being moved"

Second, in the matters of love and inner transformation, everything a beliver can do a non believer can also do.

 

[JimmieD]

Where's the body. There was enough people that hated jesus. Why didn't they produce the body to shut it down?

Rather than talk about just the stolen body theory, which will inevitably be shot down by saying that the disciples wouldn't have suffered and died for what they knew to be a lie, what about discussing the possibility that the women followers removed the body? The women followers had the means, motive, and opportunity. They are even admittedly at the scene of the "crime."

 

[stabbo]

I don't know. But I don't think its all up to us alone. I think God has a part in the creation of such faith. There have been many many many people greater than me, who have given up everything to follow Him. Maybe there are even some on this website. Let them answer and maybe we both can learn something

Ok ill wait for what other people say.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

First i'd like to say, didnt jesus say "even faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains" do any christians have faith that much? and if they do why are us non believers never seeing "mountains being moved"

Second, in the matters of love and inner transformation, everything a beliver can do a non believer can also do.

That's impressive. You can lay down your life for those who hate you without fear of death for no reason other than love? You can have your children stolen from you for no reason at birth and have them cause continual problems with your family and have them teach your children to call you by your first name and still love them? You can love a woman who gives your children away to everyone but you, even though you desired to be a great father since you were old enough to know what one is. You can be married to someone who steals your money while you sleep to spend on themselves, who is too immature to watch her own children, or doesn't let you use the families only car to work, who flips out and gets cops called if you try to talk to her about anything important, who does not let you go to church, or talk about God or buy organic vegetables lol or talk about health or a million other things. I have 3 children and none of them have my last name, my son is being raised between a man who is in a cult (who raped my wife when she was 14 and he was 19) and my wifes mother. They do whatever they can to keep me away from 2 of my children. (i have no legal right to them) I only have my youngest daughter. It's all a very long story and there is so much craziness that it would take a book to tell it all.

Even when my youngest daughter was born, this man in the cult was in the delivery room with me and my wife the entire time, holding my wife and I prayed for them and loved them. (She wasn't my wife then) My mother didn't even get to meet her grandson until the day my youngest daughter was born. I have been made out to be a "bad" person from the start, I never did anything wrong except to want to be the father to my own children since day one. But they had other plans and my wife is not capable of dealing with literally anything. Just like when she had cancer, she would rather have it kill her than go to the doctor and deal with it. She would rather attack me, than deal with the situation with our children. But I will love her and everyone and hold on to my faith because I believe that this crazy situation was an answer to prayers to conform me to Christ and I believe it has more than anything else could have. Like I said, my walk has been a progression. God is bringing about change, I can see it. And I have faith that God will continue to answer my prayers and my wife will turn to God, and be healed from the things that torment her and finally decide to be a mother to all her children

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Love is easy when you only have to love those who love you back. But can you love your "enemies"? Do you even have any?