21 Christians reported to be beheaded by ISIS

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Viligant_Warrior said:
Do you think this means no one can utter those words without being saved? Because you would be very, very wrong.
1 Corinthians 12, NASB
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed "; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. ​

Experience tells us that unbelievers are capable of saying the three words, "Jesus is Lord." This has led people to conclude that it must be talking about a sincere profession of Jesus as Lord. It is argued that while anyone can say the words "Jesus is Lord," only a believer could say that with sincerity.

That view, however, also seems to be flat-out wrong. Experience tells us that there are many moral, religious unbelievers who are capable of sincerely saying and believing that Jesus is Lord. Certainly most there are many "churches" and "denominations" that sincerely believe in and profess that Jesus is Lord, but by their doctrines prove they do not know the God of the Bible.

If this verse isn't saying that unbelievers are incapable of sincerely saying Jesus is Lord, then what is it saying? It is important to note that Paul does not say, "No one can say that Jesus is Lord unless he is born again." Instead he says, "No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

In Matt 7:21 Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven … " In context the profession of those unbelievers who say "Lord, Lord" appears to be genuine. That is, they sincerely believe that Jesus is Lord and expect Him to grant them kingdom entrance on the basis of their works (see v. 22).
Similarly, in Phil 2:10, 11 we learn that someday everyone – including all the unbelievers who have ever lived! – will "confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." The ultimate question, then, is what Paul means by the limiting phrase, "except by the Holy Spirit." It most naturally means that whenever anyone sincerely acknowledges Jesus' Lordship he or she does so as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit in his or her life.
It is mistake of the first order to think that the Holy Spirit can only work in the lives of believers. If that were true, no one could be saved.

It is also a mistake to think that the Holy Spirit is only revealing saving truth to unbelievers. The Holy Spirit is moving unbelievers to believe (and even to profess) the truths of creation, the Trinity, the Lordship of Christ, inerrancy, Jesus' virgin birth, His resurrection, etc.

This also sheds light on the flip side of the question. If a person is unwilling to say, "Jesus is Lord," it does not prove conclusively that he is unsaved. A Christian could even be so out of fellowship with God that although he believed in Jesus' Lordship, he was unwilling to profess it. In 1 Corinthians 12:3, Paul is not giving us here a litmus test of true Christians. Instead, he is giving us a litmus test of the work of the Spirit in one's life-and that is all.
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Matthew 7:21-23 is not people who thought they could get into heaven based on their works.

[h=1]Matthew 7:21-23[/h]21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Reading the whole context of these three verses in scripture shows that the Lord is telling them because they tried to serve flesh with Him is why they were not given salvation. He says they still practiced iniquity, lawlessness, sins of the fiesh. In other words they lived an unclean lifestyle even though they professed to believe in Him and do things in His name. These people in Matthew 7:21-23 fit the description given later in Titus;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate


They profess to know God, but continue to live a sinful lifestyle as well, making them disobedient to His way. Only those who are truly lead by the Holy Spirit can make a true profession of faith in the Lord, all others fall short and are not a true profession. Paul gives a clear list in Galatians 5 of what the fruits of the Spirit are, and that they will be in a true believers life. And just prior to that he gives a list that if you are still continuing in such things you are not in Christ and hince therefore not saved.
 
kennethcadwell said:
Matthew 7:21-23 is not people who thought they could get into heaven based on their works.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Reading the whole context of these three verses in scripture shows that the Lord is telling them because they tried to serve flesh with Him is why they were not given salvation. He says they still practiced iniquity, lawlessness, sins of the fiesh. In other words they lived an unclean lifestyle even though they professed to believe in Him and do things in His name. These people in Matthew 7:21-23 fit the description given later in Titus;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
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It amazes me you persist in proving your ignorance.

The word "practice" is the Greek ergazomai -- transliterated ergazomai -- meaning "work." These "work" lawlessness, and Jesus' examples are of doing what would otherwise appear to be good works in His name: prophesying, casting out demons, other wonders. What makes them anomia -- (anomia),"lawlessness", or "the condition of being without Law"? Since Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, then doing anything outside the Law is doing something without Him. They claim His name, but do the work in their own power.

Therefore, your insistence that these are saved people who "lose their salvation" based on their bad acts is just more of your B/S nonsense in this same vein. Ignorance is not bliss, it is heresy.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
How can my interpretation of that verse be erroneous, when I gave no interpretation of it, only scripture?

Have you heard of being a false accuser, or bearing false witness?
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How about you just state simply, "I don't believe this verse means only the saved can proclaim 'Jesus is Lord'?" Are you capable of doing that?
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
How bout you take a hike? Are you capable of doing that? :)
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So we can safely assume you do believe the passage teaches that only Christians can proclaim "Jesus is Lord," right? So, in other words, you "protesteth too mucheth" over my original post to you. Thanks. Thought so. Clears up a lot about you. Not that most of us didn't think it already anyway.
 
Viligant_Warrior said:
It amazes me you persist in proving your ignorance.

The word "practice" is the Greek ergazomai -- transliterated ergazomai -- meaning "work." These "work" lawlessness, and Jesus' examples are of doing what would otherwise appear to be good works in His name: prophesying, casting out demons, other wonders. What makes them anomia -- (anomia),"lawlessness", or "the condition of being without Law"? Since Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, then doing anything outside the Law is doing something without Him. They claim His name, but do the work in their own power.

Therefore, your insistence that these are saved people who "lose their salvation" based on their bad acts is just more of your B/S nonsense in this same vein. Ignorance is not bliss, it is heresy.
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No it is your twist to think these people tried to earn their way into heaven by their works when the scripture says no such thing.

They were surprised because they professed Him as Lord, and did the good works mentioned within the bible that believers would do. But they also continued to live by the flesh, walking and giving into their fleshly desires. That is what being lawlessness means, as it refers to those who do not think God's morals apply to them, and who believe no matter how they live they are already forgiven of it so they can just do what they want with no consequence.

Read again the epistle of Jude;

(1:3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

(1:4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

*(1:5) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

*(1:13) Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

(1:21)Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


*This is what God said about those who were saved by Him out of Egypt, and then turned their back on Him to worship the golden calf instead putting themselves back in unbelief;
(Exodus 32:33) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
 
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