Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[PlainWord]

When the world's single largest religion representing 1/4 of the world's population (ISLAM) happens to also be a false religion with a replacement God and no Son of God goes around beheading Christians and hating Jews (God's People) and are calling for elimination of Israel, I would think most Christians would take notice. These Christians ought to ask themselves, is it Islam riding the Beast or is it Catholics?

The answer is right out in the open but Satan does a good job of misdirection, focusing people on the wrong target. For those who think one day Priests are going to emerge from the doorway of a Catholic church and start running around with swords looking to behead you, think again. Maybe you should be a little more concerned passing a mosque where such teachings are actually being taught.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson123,



This is Satan claiming to be God.

and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This could be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem but it could also be the Vatican in Rome. Either would fit.



You keep saying this but where are you getting that from? Sure there will be some saved Muslims, but generally speaking, most will NOT be saved. Paul was pretty darn clear about this.

Gal 4:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise. [SUP]24 [/SUP]which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia..

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

The Arab world will NOT be heirs with Isaac (ISRAEL).



As I've said 1,000 times, the Catholic Church has plenty of false doctrine but nothing compared to the false doctrine of ISLAM which replaces God completely and does not even acknowledge that God has a Son (Jesus).

1. rev talking about second beast has horn like a lamb and liar like a dragon is pope brother.

He lie Muslim in the plan or salvation. do you believe Muslim adore the same God with christian.

That is official doctrine of catholic from lumen gentium. II/16

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127)


Muslim, hindu etc replace God and that is not characteristic of second beast.

You agree Antichrist is second beast don't you?


He has 2 horn like a lamb/Christ/ christian but liar like a dragon. It is Pope, Islam leader is dragon but not a lamb.

 

[john832]

When the world's single largest religion representing 1/4 of the world's population (ISLAM) happens to also be a false religion with a replacement God and no Son of God goes around beheading Christians and hating Jews (God's People) and are calling for elimination of Israel, I would think most Christians would take notice. These Christians ought to ask themselves, is it Islam riding the Beast or is it Catholics?

The answer is right out in the open but Satan does a good job of misdirection, focusing people on the wrong target. For those who think one day Priests are going to emerge from the doorway of a Catholic church and start running around with swords looking to behead you, think again. Maybe you should be a little more concerned passing a mosque where such teachings are actually being taught.

false religion with a replacement God and no Son of God

And there is a problem with this...

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This false religion will have a false lamb (a false christ) that deceives the world...

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Now the false Christ(s) will have to be very persuasive to deceive the very elect. I can't see Islam deceiving the very elect.

 

[kennethcadwell]

1. What verse said first beast command/superior to second beast?

2. Second beast exercise authority like first beast, mean second beast have political power, Pope now have political power because he is the leader of the country, remember brother, vatican is a country.

3. the word first mean come/show before second. Mean first beast is the first 3.5 years of tribulation not the second.

My opinion of these verse is, Pope make people worship the first beast. Pope has great power to all nation even before the 7 year tribulation, I remember you believe this as well. But he does it secretly. In the middle of tribulation, he will do it openly.

That answered why second beast make people worship first beast, because second beast /Pope exist now before he install first beast.

1-2) Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


(These two scriptures says he exerciseth the first beast orders, and it says before him and in the sight of him, meaning he is still in around and in power.)


3) Both beast are in power as the first is the main political leader (antichrist/man of sin) and the second is the main religious leader (false prophet/ I believe the pope) because it forces the world to follow and worship the first beast. Two separate individuals both in leadership at the same time, not different times in the 7 year tribulation.


Yes the pope will openly worship the anitchrist/man of sin in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period, which is why so many will be deceived to follow one main political leader. Because of the Catholic churches influence all around the world, this is the only way many will be fooled to follow one political leader that they endorse.
There is another scripture that shows that the first beast and second beast is the antichrist and false prophet as I have stated, and that is;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Look at how this scripture parallels both beasts in Revelation 13, and shows both in power at the same time and both cast into the lake of fire together. Not the same and not both in power at different points in the 7 year tribulation, as the second beast is the false prophet that follows the first beast which is the antichrist.

 

[TrueFire]

Where are you getting the idea that the whole world is deceived? From here?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

From the above? Does it say "THE WHOLE WORLD" is deceived? Does it say, "ALL THOSE who dwell?" NO!! How about here?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Notice the caveat? Those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life will be deceived. Notice Jesus also tells us that the "saved ELECT" will not be deceived.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

We see that the ELECT are not deceived. It is not possible to deceive them. They know their Christ and their God. They will not fall for the deception. There wouldn't be any Christians to kill if they were all deceived and we know Christians are absolutely slaughtered in huge numbers during Satan's Great Tribulation.

Yes, Daniel saw world powers. The final BEAST will be a world power made up of Islamic extremists. If you look at the symbolism in Revelation you will see that it is ISLAM who is riding this world power BEAST.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The woman is ISLAM, the BEAST are 10 terror groups and/or countries who kill in the name of ISLAM.

Some think it will be the rebirth of Rome which would mean that the Catholic Church is somehow going to lead 10 nations against the Christian world and slaughter Christians and Jews in huge numbers. This idea is plain silly. We aren't going to see a bunch of Bishops, Cardinals and Priests running around chopping off the heads of Christians. Islam does this. Islam is doing this now and it is going to get a lot worse before Christ comes back and puts an end to it.

Who are those that dwell on the earth??? The ONLY reason that the elect are "not" is because of the seal of God. They were chosen to carry His message. These being the 144000 which learns a song that "those who dwell on the earth" cannot.

Now again, "Islam" cannot kill anyone anymore than a gun can of itself. They're lifeless names and objects. People kill people. And whoever those people are that are doing these acts were taught and trained to do so.

We cannot defeat a sword/guns with the same no more than hate can conquer hate!

The final beast is a mixture of the ones that came before it. If a nation conquered another due to say, a stronger military might, the people become part of that nation. Now if that nation liked certain ways the one who ruled before it ran things, it wouldn't scrap those methods it would institute these things into what they did as well.

 

[PlainWord]

1. rev talking about second beast has horn like a lamb and liar like a dragon is pope brother.

He lie Muslim in the plan or salvation. do you believe Muslim adore the same God with christian.

That is official doctrine of catholic from lumen gentium. II/16

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127)


Muslim, hindu etc replace God and that is not characteristic of second beast.

You agree Antichrist is second beast don't you?


He has 2 horn like a lamb/Christ/ christian but liar like a dragon. It is Pope, Islam leader is dragon but not a lamb.

Any Muslim who takes the mark of the beast will not enter heaven. This mark of Crossed Swords and Bismillah (In the Name of Allah) will go to Hell, not heaven. If you think ISLAM is closer to God than Catholics, please go ahead. You are free to think as you wish ignoring the location given and all the passages that identify the Harlot and Beast.

Yes, the second Beast is the Man of Sin (who you call AntiChrist) but he is Satan come as a man. Does he come as a Pope? I don't think so. I just don't see a Pope leading 10 Islamic terrorist groups against Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Do you????

 

[PlainWord]

And there is a problem with this...

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This false religion will have a false lamb (a false christ) that deceives the world...

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Now the false Christ(s) will have to be very persuasive to deceive the very elect. I can't see Islam deceiving the very elect.

It says, "if possible" the Elect would be deceived but clearly, it isn't possible. So, no problem here.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Any Muslim who takes the mark of the beast will not enter heaven. This mark of Crossed Swords and Bismillah (In the Name of Allah) will go to Hell, not heaven. If you think ISLAM is closer to God than Catholics, please go ahead. You are free to think as you wish ignoring the location given and all the passages that identify the Harlot and Beast.

Yes, the second Beast is the Man of Sin (who you call AntiChrist) but he is Satan come as a man. Does he come as a Pope? I don't think so. I just don't see a Pope leading 10 Islamic terrorist groups against Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Do you????

First this part I underlined and highlighted makes no sense, as Muslims if they don't accept Jesus as the Son of God will not go to heaven either. Which they do not as they believe Him to be just another prophet that will appear with Mohammed.
So to say only if they don't take the mark of the beast will they go to heaven is false, because if they stick to Jesus not being the Son of God and the Messiah then they will not go to heaven either.

Second the second beast is not the man of sin.
The second beast in Revelation 13 is the false prophet, and I already showed how the first beast parallels the description of the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. And how the second beast parallels the false prophet description given in Revelation 19:20.

 

[Sophia]

It says, "if possible" the Elect would be deceived but clearly, it isn't possible. So, no problem here.

Eh... but it's not even a remote possibility for 99.9% of non-Muslims.
How many Catholics or Mormons are considering joining a militant Islamic group? The whole idea of THIS being called "the great deception" is rather ironic... as it is pretty out in the open as being evil.

 

[PlainWord]

1-2) Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


(These two scriptures says he exerciseth the first beast orders, and it says before him and in the sight of him, meaning he is still in around and in power.)


3) Both beast are in power as the first is the main political leader (antichrist/man of sin) and the second is the main religious leader (false prophet/ I believe the pope) because it forces the world to follow and worship the first beast. Two separate individuals both in leadership at the same time, not different times in the 7 year tribulation.


Yes the pope will openly worship the anitchrist/man of sin in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period, which is why so many will be deceived to follow one main political leader. Because of the Catholic churches influence all around the world, this is the only way many will be fooled to follow one political leader that they endorse.
There is another scripture that shows that the first beast and second beast is the antichrist and false prophet as I have stated, and that is;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Look at how this scripture parallels both beasts in Revelation 13, and shows both in power at the same time and both cast into the lake of fire together. Not the same and not both in power at different points in the 7 year tribulation, as the second beast is the false prophet that follows the first beast which is the antichrist.

Hey Ken, here's my take on this. The First Beast is a group of Islamic Terrorists located to the north (of Israel). They are led by a "mouth" who is the False Prophet. The prophet comes before the object of prophesy. This means the Second Beast is Satan who comes as a man, the MAN OF SIN, who many of you call AntiChrist.

Read the passage like this:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[SUP][c][/SUP] for forty-two months.

The "mouth" continues for 42 months. The mouth of the Beast has already called on everyone (Muslim) to serve the Beast.

By Sylvia Westall
BEIRUT, June 29, 2014 (Reuters) - An offshoot of al Qaeda which has captured territory in Iraq and Syria has declared itself an Islamic "caliphate" and called on factions worldwide to pledge their allegiance, a statement posted on Islamist websites and Twitter said on Sunday.

The move poses a direct challenge to the central leadership of al Qaeda, which has already disowned it, and to conservative Gulf Arab rulers.

The group, previously known as the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and also known as ISIS, has renamed itself "Islamic State" and proclaimed its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as "Caliph" - the head of the state, the statement said.

The spokesman of ISIS is also it's leader al-Baghdadi. He sees himself and ISIS as apocalyptic figures. If I am correct, the 42 month clock started ticking on June 29, 2014.

Satan comes on the scene likely immediately after the 42 months are over. Satan is a man but with god-like powers. It is Satan who does miracles and causes those not saved to "worship" which in this context means "serve and follow" the first BEAST which I think could be ISIS.

The timing is perfect and everything fits. This means Satan should appear in late November to early December, 2017. Actually depending if the 42 months are lunar months or actual months it would give us a span of Nov 20, 2017 to Dec 10, 2017. I am leaning towards the date of the appearance of the Man of Sin to be Dec 2, 2017 because it falls on a Sabbath and comes one day after Muhammad's Birthday and one day before a full moon.

 

[PlainWord]

Eh... but it's not even a remote possibility for 99.9% of non-Muslims.
How many Catholics or Mormons are considering joining a militant Islamic group? The whole idea of THIS being called "the great deception" is rather ironic... as it is pretty out in the open as being evil.

It isn't the whole entire world, it's the Muslim world.

Check this out.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

These "waters" are Muslim peoples, multitude, nations and tongues. They are the followers of the harlot - Islam. They come from all over the world to MECCA for the Haj but they are not the whole world - they are the Muslim world.

This is the same way the original Babylonians of Daniel's day were described.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up...

Again, this isn't the whole world - this is the world under the control of Nebuchadnezzar. These are the "captives." Muslims today are spiritually "captive." We see this used over and over again to describe them.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If anyone has an ear, let him hear. [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Paul also calls them captive in Galatians 4:

For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia...

All the Beasts mentioned by Daniel had one thing in common, they all held Israel in captivity physically and often times spiritually too.

Now we are told that the BEAST wages war with and overcomes the Saints. We know that a great multitude of saints are killed during Satan's great tribulation. Once the Christian world is slaughtered, the BEAST really will have control over the rest of the earth.

 

[PlainWord]

First this part I underlined and highlighted makes no sense, as Muslims if they don't accept Jesus as the Son of God will not go to heaven either. Which they do not as they believe Him to be just another prophet that will appear with Mohammed.
So to say only if they don't take the mark of the beast will they go to heaven is false, because if they stick to Jesus not being the Son of God and the Messiah then they will not go to heaven either.

Second the second beast is not the man of sin.
The second beast in Revelation 13 is the false prophet, and I already showed how the first beast parallels the description of the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. And how the second beast parallels the false prophet description given in Revelation 19:20.

I was trying to be gracious to our friend and Muslim supporter, Jackson. My statement is true. Those who take the mark will go to hell. Those who do not take the mark but still deny God and Christ will also go to hell. But there are saved Muslims. Some will be saved right at the very end when they call on the Name of the Lord.



We disagree on the second part of your position. The prophet does not follow the the one he foretells, he precedes him. The first beast again is not a man, it's mouth is a man. This mouth blasphemes. Nothing in 2 Thes 2 speaks of him blaspheming. 2 Thes 2 speaks of the Man of Sin claiming to be above all called God.

This is the False Prophet:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.

This is the Man of Sin:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Now notice in Rev 13 that the False Prophet wages war with AND overcomes the Saints BEFORE the Second Beast is revealed. Why is this important? Because if the world is filled with Christians, they would expose Satan. Therefore the Christian world must be killed.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


So the Christian world is preventing Satan from coming. Daniel teaches the very same thing:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, [SUP]22 [/SUP]until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High...

 

[Jackson123]

Any Muslim who takes the mark of the beast will not enter heaven. This mark of Crossed Swords and Bismillah (In the Name of Allah) will go to Hell, not heaven. If you think ISLAM is closer to God than Catholics, please go ahead. You are free to think as you wish ignoring the location given and all the passages that identify the Harlot and Beast.

Yes, the second Beast is the Man of Sin (who you call AntiChrist) but he is Satan come as a man. Does he come as a Pope? I don't think so. I just don't see a Pope leading 10 Islamic terrorist groups against Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Do you????

I never said islam close to God than Catholic. Both of them are dragon worshiper. But Catholic more cunning than Muslim.

Every body know Islam not worship the same God with Christian but catholic lie to us and said Islam share the same God with Abraham. that is lie and show the characteristic of the Antichrist. has 2 horn like a lamb/christ but lie like a dragon.

Let me repeat one more time, Muslim is a dragon but not like a lamb. Catholic is a dragon but like a lamb.

 

[Jackson123]

1-2) Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


(These two scriptures says he exerciseth the first beast orders, and it says before him and in the sight of him, meaning he is still in around and in power.)


3) Both beast are in power as the first is the main political leader (antichrist/man of sin) and the second is the main religious leader (false prophet/ I believe the pope) because it forces the world to follow and worship the first beast. Two separate individuals both in leadership at the same time, not different times in the 7 year tribulation.


Yes the pope will openly worship the anitchrist/man of sin in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period, which is why so many will be deceived to follow one main political leader. Because of the Catholic churches influence all around the world, this is the only way many will be fooled to follow one political leader that they endorse.
There is another scripture that shows that the first beast and second beast is the antichrist and false prophet as I have stated, and that is;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Look at how this scripture parallels both beasts in Revelation 13, and shows both in power at the same time and both cast into the lake of fire together. Not the same and not both in power at different points in the 7 year tribulation, as the second beast is the false prophet that follows the first beast which is the antichrist.

1 I don't see any sentence in these verse that said first beast commanded second beast what to do.

Second beast exercise all the power of the first beast before, mean he have the same power but did not said command by first beast. Mean if the first beast have political power, the second has political power (same power)

The word before him mean First and second not come in the same time. I come before you, mean when I come, you not come yet.


2. Look this verse.


5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[a]for forty-two months.



If you believe this authority for seven years, why in this verse said 42 months

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Mystery Babylon is where religion began. Nimrod was first king on the earth, he rebelled against God and started the paganism and built the tower of Babel.

Babylon was conquered eventually and the Pagan ways of Babylon were revived by Rome at a later date. Roman emperor Constantine created a church to combine both paganism and Christianity, which you can't do. It became the religion of Rome, as a way to control people both politically and religiously.

Rome is the whore of Babylon. John wrote Revelations from the Isle of Patmos and was using Babylon to describe Rome, the whore, that was responsible for the blood of the saints at that time. The saints suffered persecution from the Romans. John had escaped death and was writing about what had just happened as well as his vision of the future, where Rome would be involved.

Rome is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.

All religion came from Babylon, which was revived by Rome.

Rome has put up a fight. She has survived to the current day, is here, will remain here until she meets her end as God has mentioned in the book of Revelations.

God's true church is described as the bride. The counterfeit bride is described as a prostitute, an impure church teaching false doctrines. This will be a church that many believe to be Christian but it is a counterfeit of Christianity.

The enemy is always attacking Israel. God has hardened the hearts of the Jews temporarily and offered salvation to us gentiles. Once all chosen gentiles are saved God will then focus on Israel. They will go through the tribulation and many will be saved through it. The Jews are definitely not the counterfeit prostitute because they are God's chosen people whereas Babylon is the abomination.

Yep, the enemy, Satan, is always attacking Israel. The promises of God are given to Israel and through Israel to bless all the families of the Earth. The enemy always wants to destroy all Jews because as long as one of them is alive, it is proof of God's promises being kept. Today the veil remains over Israel so they can't see Jesus is their Messiah. After the tribulation, when Jesus returns with ten thousands of His saints (Jude), He will sit on His throne on Mt. Zion and we will reign with Him 1000 years. Christians who try to say Israel is displaced and denied from God's promises given to them though Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are helping the enemy by fueling anti-semitism. There are something like 200 thousand Coptic Christians in the Egyptian army who feel the same anti-semitism as many protestent christian groups in other places around the world. Those Coptics in Egypt hate the Jews as much as ISIS does, and eventually they will join in attacking Israel again. When real persecution comes, then we find out who the real Christians are. Real Christians should always side with Israel and the Jews. They always have been and always will be the apple of God's eye, and He will always punish those who mistread Israel, even if He uses those ungodly nations or people as instruments of chastisement for correction against Israel.

 

[Sophia]

It isn't the whole entire world, it's the Muslim world.

Check this out.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

These "waters" are Muslim peoples, multitude, nations and tongues. They are the followers of the harlot - Islam. They come from all over the world to MECCA for the Haj but they are not the whole world - they are the Muslim world.

This is the same way the original Babylonians of Daniel's day were described.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up...

Again, this isn't the whole world - this is the world under the control of Nebuchadnezzar. These are the "captives." Muslims today are spiritually "captive." We see this used over and over again to describe them.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If anyone has an ear, let him hear. [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Paul also calls them captive in Galatians 4:

For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia...

All the Beasts mentioned by Daniel had one thing in common, they all held Israel in captivity physically and often times spiritually too.

Now we are told that the BEAST wages war with and overcomes the Saints. We know that a great multitude of saints are killed during Satan's great tribulation. Once the Christian world is slaughtered, the BEAST really will have control over the rest of the earth.

Weren't the Jews among that group referred to by Nebuchadnezzar? Yes. Which is why 3 got thrown into a furnace.
Islam is not Babylon. It is simply one daughter of the Harlot, and I think you can see that yourself. I'm not sure why you persist in this tangent, because it is obvious that you have not convinced even yourself.

Hagar is Jerusalem, and all those who are under the Law given from Mt Sinai.
Sarah is the New Jeruselem, and all those in Christ, who are freed from the Law.

Who are the children of Hagar? Primarily the unsaved Jews. Secondarily the sons of Ishmael (Arabs), thirdly all those who are unsaved. The whole point of Paul's speech in that section of Galatians was comparing unsaved Jews to being the same as Arabs.

 

[MarcR]

To answer the question of who is the harlot (who makes a sham of true faith)

Who showed her love of true believers by burning them as heritics?

Who demonstrated her blessing of God's Chosen People with an inquisition?

Who puts the teachings of men above fhe cannon of God?


I know of only one such 'church'

 

[PlainWord]

Weren't the Jews among that group referred to by Nebuchadnezzar? Yes. Which is why 3 got thrown into a furnace.
Islam is not Babylon. It is simply one daughter of the Harlot, and I think you can see that yourself. I'm not sure why you persist in this tangent, because it is obvious that you have not convinced even yourself.

Hagar is Jerusalem, and all those who are under the Law given from Mt Sinai.
Sarah is the New Jeruselem, and all those in Christ, who are freed from the Law.

Who are the children of Hagar? Primarily the unsaved Jews. Secondarily the sons of Ishmael (Arabs), thirdly all those who are unsaved. The whole point of Paul's speech in that section of Galatians was comparing unsaved Jews to being the same as Arabs.

spoken by the clueless...

 

[Sophia]

spoken by the clueless...

I'm just saying... You have narrowed your vision to the point that you are not seeing the whole picture.
We are all deeply affected by the violence of Islam... but that does not make them important in the grand scheme. They are a minimal nuisance compared to what is coming.

 

[john832]

To answer the question of who is the harlot (who makes a sham of true faith)

Who showed her love of true believers by burning them as heritics?

Who demonstrated her blessing of God's Chosen People with an inquisition?

Who puts the teachings of men above fhe cannon of God?


I know of only one such 'church'

The Vicar of Christ means one who is in place of Christ.