Seeker Friendly, vs tradition vs modernization vs distorted gospel

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Sophia said:
But what about being teachers of righteousness, and instructing others in the ways of holiness?
Am I to be considered a legalist for encouraging others to not forsake their calling?
Our faith is not a "sit back and relax, you're saved now", but a "get up and move! You have been made free! Show others."

The groups I am referencing in the OP have a general attitude of self-center spirituality.
The rebuke goes to those all of those who are stuck in self-centered/culturally centered spititual ruts.
Both traditionalists, and "emmergent".
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Don't encourage others to pursue righteousness and holiness until you are ready to be persecuted for righteousness sake lol.

"Legalism" is far more dangerous when the term is misunderstood. Atleast in my experience
 
WheresEnoch said:
Don't encourage others to pursue righteousness and holiness until you are ready to be persecuted for righteousness sake lol.

"Legalism" is far more dangerous when the term is misunderstood. Atleast in my experience
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I dont even know what it is, I cant find it in the scripture and people are always calling other folks after various strange names and ISMS, theres alot of ISMS, I think over 20 of them but I never once learned them, just left off. People make stuff up at other people most the time, sum you up under a thing.

Im always like, "whatever" lol
 
DesiredHaven said:
I dont even know what it is, I cant find it in the scripture and people are always calling other folks after various strange names and ISMS, theres alot of ISMS, I think over 20 of them but I never once learned them, just left off. People make stuff up at other people most the time, sum you up under a thing.

Im always like, "whatever" lol
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I have never heard of ISMS
 
DesiredHaven said:
They are words folks call other groups that end in ISM, I just call them ISMS

Like they would lump you into this category of some kind of ancient heresy of some sort
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I'm guilty of the ISMS calling.
Arminianism, Calvinism, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Legalism, Antinomianism, Stoicism, Platonism, etc...
I like the labels because they make things easier to organize... but their inherent flaw is that they cause divisions by making definitional dividing lines.
 
Sophia said:
I'm guilty of the ISMS calling.
Arminianism, Calvinism, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Legalism, Antinomianism, Stoicism, Platonism, etc...
I like the labels because they make things easier to organize... but their inherent flaw is that they cause divisions by making definitional dividing lines.
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Those are it! Yeah I think I have been called quite a few of them over the last 10 years, and a couple of times earlier on I thought, "I got to see what the heck this is", so I go off to wiki and and couldnt even grasp half the words (because Im honestly not that intelligent) but if I was "whatever that was" I certainly wasnt feeling it.

Like your reading your supposed definition and couldnt relate to it.

Some words I needed a dictionary for but I had better things to do then look that many of them up.

I like retardism lol
 
What is your stance on OSAS? Does that only apply to good soil? lol
I don't think I can agree with OSAS
 
WheresEnoch said:
What is your stance on OSAS? Does that only apply to good soil? lol
I don't think I can agree with OSAS
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Who me? Because I had to even ask what those letters stood for not so long ago, I dont hear of these thing except online. I just dont use other words outside of scripture for things. I dont study these words, where they originate what they mean, I try to stay away from them because they only seem to breed divisions and debates.

If its not words in scripture, its not for me.
 
WheresEnoch said:
What is your stance on OSAS? Does that only apply to good soil? lol
I don't think I can agree with OSAS
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I don't like the phrase OSAS, because it is abused.
But I do believe in our eternal security in Christ.
And also in predestination (which is hard to disagree with, because it is written about so many times and in so many different passages by different writers).
 
WheresEnoch said:
Anyone, sorry I'm not good at staying on topic at times
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It's okay. Your questions may be "off-topic", but they are generally very relevant to the implications of the discussion, and show that you are really trying to gain understanding.
 
Sophia said:
I'm guilty of the ISMS calling.
Arminianism, Calvinism, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Legalism, Antinomianism, Stoicism, Platonism, etc...
I like the labels because they make things easier to organize... but their inherent flaw is that they cause divisions by making definitional dividing lines.
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Things or people?
 
Sophia said:
I'm guilty of the ISMS calling.
Arminianism, Calvinism, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Legalism, Antinomianism, Stoicism, Platonism, etc...
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...and guilty of using big words. :p
Us dumb folk, need a dictionary handy when reading one of your posts.

Just a joke Sophia. :p
 
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Sophia said:
"Cheap grace" is understood by asking two questions.

1.Are you striving?
- If a person says "no", then they are living as if the grace given to them doesn't mean enough to them to change their ways. They can claim Grace and claim to be a new creation, but without real change, their words are just lip-service. That is the primary meaning of "cheap grace": someone saying or living a way that displays Grace as not powerful enough to encite real attitude, motivation, and behavioural change.

- If you answer "yes", then move on to question 2.

2. Why are you striving?
- If it is to earn Grace, or maintain salvation, then you are calling Grace insufficient.

- If you are striving out of appreciation for the grace you have been given, and and out of love for your saviour, and submission to the one who bought you,
then you have a RIGHT attitude.

We are saved by Grace, and called unto good works. Neglecting either side of that is to view Grace as being cheap.
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Where not supposed to be striving at salvation, we are called to "rest" in the finished work of Christ and receive the grace to labor in good works through faith and love.

Those who call grace "cheap" do not understand the price that was paid.

Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Those who teach the abundance of grace, are those who teach believers to reign with Christ. Those who teach dead works are teaching people to become slaves of their own flesh.
 
The real problem with the "seeker" movement, the "emergent" church, the "social gospel" churches isn't so much their lack of truthful preaching, though that is certainly a major problem they should correct, or abandon the idea of calling themselves a "church."

The real problem is they all try to draw the sinner into the last place on Earth a sinner is going to go willingly so they can hear the Gospel. It isn't the church's job to convert sinners! It is the church's job to equip their members to convert sinners!

People are fond of saying "The church isn't a place for saints, it's a place for sinners." But that isn't true! The church is where the imperfect believers worship, fellowship, study God's word, praise His holy Name, and learn how to make disciples of their friends, co-workers, and family.

To do that, the church has to preach the Gospel, teach the life applications of the Gospel, and do so in such a way that people can take the message out into the world.

We can't approach the problem of sin and redemption from a human perspective. As long as those churches cling to the idea of making themselves "less of a threat" to sinners, they are going to invite sin into the church, instead of inviting Christ into the sinner.

The Gospel is a threat. It is a "stumbling block" for those in the world. If it wasn't, then Satan wouldn't hate it so much, and try to get his own into churches to turn them into entertainment galleries rather than worship centers.
 
Mitspa said:
Where not supposed to be striving at salvation, we are called to "rest" in the finished work of Christ and receive the grace to labor in good works through faith and love.

Those who call grace "cheap" do not understand the price that was paid.

Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Those who teach the abundance of grace, are those who teach believers to reign with Christ. Those who teach dead works are teaching people to become slaves of their own flesh.
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We are called to go and do good works... ones that were even prepared in advance for us to do.
Working for the Kingdom does not equate to "striving for salvation".
We are called to resist the flesh, pursue righteousness, and strive for the sake of the Gospel and for the sake of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Mitspa... are you striving?
What are you fighting against? and is it presented on this thread, or are you just pretending that someone said something legalistic?
 
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Seeker friendly places. In the evangelical world where everything is perfect, everyone is saved, they have repented, believed on Jesus and are born again, what more is there to do. Just walk into heaven.
Evening after evening repent and believe sermons would be given to believers, while the lost stayed lost. Unfortunately the lost were often in the congregations, because love had not taken root, only social convention to the group they belonged to. The answer was to change the gospel, and the message, dilute it all, and fill the churches with people who understood nothing. Emotionally what worked was uplifting praise, so this became the agenda.

The problem is love is dynamic, it challenges change, it causes you to be exposed, it asks you to take risks, it wants reality. So often we want just the first steps, because anything more shocks us to the core, and asks too much.
But that is Jesus and his message. Its power is love conquering sin, but without christians living this, it is just hypocracy, as the sin stays hidden and just spreads..........No wonder why the church is in such a difficult place at the moment....
 
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