Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[PeterJens]

As a Christian we are called to read and believe the bible and obey God through faith and love, not the hypocrisy of legalism and the dead works of the law.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I agree completely. We are not justified by the law, but the law helps us see that we are truly walking in the Spirit.
The reason why people cannot keep the law is because they do not love from the heart. Through failure we learn we have a problem in areas of our life which needs attention. The ministry of the church is to help the body grow and mature, to pick themselves up when they fall, and learn the power of life is the relationship with each other and God through Jesus.
As soon as we think we have arrived we fail, because we rely on what we are and not grace and love working within. I have seen christians who had their lives so worked out, they said they no longer needed the Lord. A tree soon rots within, and the fruit ceases to come. There are no simple rules because you are talking life, relationship and spiritual experience.

 

[PeterJens]

putting law in to context would need the decrees as well. and a temple of stone.(to follow fully) as wrote in the torah. and would be directed to a jewish people, person , nation, and to land.

the pharisees argued that god gave them the law, we are a holy nation, yet how many of them seen a new covenant.

The problem with ignoring the law is ignoring the nature of the Lord and his heart. The law is a picture of how we should live, a guide, not a rule book for us in the new convenant. We no longer need to offer sacrifices, the roles of the tribes has ceased, we no longer live in a nation with penal laws. Our faith is a faith of the individual and the heart, interacting with those we meet. So though the law is no longer binding, it is still a guide of principle and precept, of that which is righteous and that which is sinfull. What I find amazing is christians who can argue with this. Which precepts or ideas do you have problem with?

 

[michael56]

The problem with ignoring the law is ignoring the nature of the Lord and his heart. The law is a picture of how we should live, a guide, not a rule book for us in the new convenant. We no longer need to offer sacrifices, the roles of the tribes has ceased, we no longer live in a nation with penal laws. Our faith is a faith of the individual and the heart, interacting with those we meet. So though the law is no longer binding, it is still a guide of principle and precept, of that which is righteous and that which is sinfull. What I find amazing is christians who can argue with this. Which precepts or ideas do you have problem with?

It is a law of righteousness that has been removed, not the law itself that God requires you to keep. THAT LAW has been transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts

For Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. rOM 10:4

 

[michael56]

The problem with ignoring the law is ignoring the nature of the Lord and his heart. The law is a picture of how we should live, a guide, not a rule book for us in the new convenant. We no longer need to offer sacrifices, the roles of the tribes has ceased, we no longer live in a nation with penal laws. Our faith is a faith of the individual and the heart, interacting with those we meet. So though the law is no longer binding, it is still a guide of principle and precept, of that which is righteous and that which is sinfull. What I find amazing is christians who can argue with this. Which precepts or ideas do you have problem with?

No Christian can ignore the law written on their mind and placed on their heart. Such a thing is not possible

 

[Dan_473]

So though the law is no longer binding, it is still a guide of principle and precept, of that which is righteous and that which is sinful. What I find amazing is christians who can argue with this. Which precepts or ideas do you have problem with?

I'm new to this thread. One precept I don't like is letting the corners of your beard grow... is this the kind of thing you're talking about?

 

[royalscot]

The problem with ignoring the law is ignoring the nature of the Lord and his heart. The law is a picture of how we should live, a guide, not a rule book for us in the new convenant. We no longer need to offer sacrifices, the roles of the tribes has ceased, we no longer live in a nation with penal laws. Our faith is a faith of the individual and the heart, interacting with those we meet. So though the law is no longer binding, it is still a guide of principle and precept, of that which is righteous and that which is sinfull. What I find amazing is christians who can argue with this. Which precepts or ideas do you have problem with?

if your still looking at acts 2, then your problem is you have a context problem all were jewish at pentecoste.
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
who saved you from the prison of the law.
24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.2

so who is our guardian now.

are you being taught by law, or the holy spirit.

do i need to go to acts 15.
when looking at the law from a jewish point of view , when was a gentile to look at law with the same view, so with no temple of stone, you trying to split the decrees away. you already believed in a god through jesus christ if you believe. not a law given to a jewish nation, but a saviour that saved you under the punishment of law.

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

who set you free from law of sin and death.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No Christian can ignore the law written on their mind and placed on their heart. Such a thing is not possible

This is true as no truly born again Christian can ignore the law written on their mind and placed on their heart, as it is the Lord through the Holy Spirit who is working within us to change us for righteousness unto salvation.

The problem that I see debated though is that we have one extreme debating with the other extreme.
Meaning that we have those who believe no standards still apply to born again believers debating with those who believe the whole 613 Mosaic laws is what is placed on our minds and hearts.
God's word in scripture proves both of those are flawed thinking as we do still have standards that follows and shows within a true born again believer because the Lord working in and through us, and not all 613 Mosaic laws apply under the new covenant as Acts 15 and Romans 13:9 shows.

 

[PeterJens]

I'm new to this thread. One precept I don't like is letting the corners of your beard grow... is this the kind of thing you're talking about?

Exactly. How is what you do with the corner of your beard a moral principle. There is a precept about not following fashions etc being natural and not overly controlled. It is interesting exploring what the Lord is getting at.

 

[michael56]

This is true as no truly born again Christian can ignore the law written on their mind and placed on their heart, as it is the Lord through the Holy Spirit who is working within us to change us for righteousness unto salvation.

The problem that I see debated though is that we have one extreme debating with the other extreme.
Meaning that we have those who believe no standards still apply to born again believers debating with those who believe the whole 613 Mosaic laws is what is placed on our minds and hearts.
God's word in scripture proves both of those are flawed thinking as we do still have standards that follows and shows within a true born again believer because the Lord working in and through us, and not all 613 Mosaic laws apply under the new covenant as Acts 15 and Romans 13:9 shows.

Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS Rom 10:4

Christ is not the end of the law full stop!

I agree with you, 613 laws do not apply to the Christian. They are not all written on our minds and placed on our hearts. We know which ones are, for when we fail to keep them we MUST have heartfelt conviction we sin by doing so.

But for me the difference is this. If Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS you cannot be made unrighteous before God for your imperfections concerning those laws, it is not possible. THE PROBLEM IS, SOME THEN SAY YOU WANT A LICENCE TO SIN.
So the real problem to me is, do we all agree on what it means for a person to be born again of the Holy Spirit? Do we agree as to what it means for the Holy Spirit to wrote the law God desires a person to keep on their mind and place it on their heart. To me, that stops grace being used as a licence to sin.

 

[PeterJens]

RoyalScot "are you being taught by law, or the holy spirit"
The problem is reference points. Humans are subjective, biased, easily misslead from within and without.
We are encouraged to test the spirit of a prophecy, to look at the fruit of a teacher, to be on our guard against false teachers etc. This is using your interlect and understanding. The reference point is the experience of people in the bible and through church history. The arguments are subtle and take time to see in context, and with prayer and conviction through the Holy Spirit we draw conclusions. The charismatic movement tend to bypass this with "prophetic words", dreams, revelations which are mainly junk. They have turned a considered world wide faith into a laughing stock of criminal embezzelers, liars, fraudsters, dreamers, deluded idiots, but yet we are called to call this a work of the Holy Spirit.
To walk away from the law completely is to deny Jesus and him being the fullfillment of the law, the ultimate meaning of salvation the the Kingdom of God.
Too many have become peddlers of superstitious spirits who cause sin in peoples lives and not sinful hearts seeking selfish ends. You can deal with evil spirits, it required repentence and spiritual honesty to deal with sin. What a suprise a work not of the Lord blames evil spirits for something that is as old as human being, sin......

 

[royalscot]

This is true as no truly born again Christian can ignore the law written on their mind and placed on their heart, as it is the Lord through the Holy Spirit who is working within us to change us for righteousness unto salvation.

The problem that I see debated though is that we have one extreme debating with the other extreme.
Meaning that we have those who believe no standards still apply to born again believers debating with those who believe the whole 613 Mosaic laws is what is placed on our minds and hearts.
God's word in scripture proves both of those are flawed thinking as we do still have standards that follows and shows within a true born again believer because the Lord working in and through us, and not all 613 Mosaic laws apply under the new covenant as Acts 15 and Romans 13:9 shows.

true dont need judgement from speculation,
prove its law that is written in hearts and minds. speculation is nothing without proof.
act 15 already told you its a different law, given to a gentile or you cant read , so that again would question, how can you define what is true, if you cant put scripture in context

 

[Dan_473]

Exactly. How is what you do with the corner of your beard a moral principle. There is a precept about not following fashions etc being natural and not overly controlled. It is interesting exploring what the Lord is getting at.

actually, I like that thinking... then the law about murdering is really about hating, and the sabbath laws aren't a certain day of the week, but about living like "the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns."

 

[PeterJens]

michael56 "Do we agree as to what it means for the Holy Spirit to wrote the law God desires a person to keep on their mind and place it on their heart."

I look at things differently. Our hearts at birth are set to love. We love our parents no matter what. Through experience and hurt we shut this love off and close down, creating a defensive outer exterior which we show to the world.
It is this outer exterior Jesus breaks through in being born again, and releases the love we have within. Through consistent communion and support from the Holy Spirit this love works through our whole being. Love is the fullfillment of the law, and its yard stick. It gives direction and intent, but is not like a book of laws. It works by what it rejoices in and what hurts and discourages it. This is the heart we are given and what is meant in the bible.....

 

[royalscot]

RoyalScot "are you being taught by law, or the holy spirit"
The problem is reference points. Humans are subjective, biased, easily misslead from within and without.
We are encouraged to test the spirit of a prophecy, to look at the fruit of a teacher, to be on our guard against false teachers etc. This is using your interlect and understanding. The reference point is the experience of people in the bible and through church history. The arguments are subtle and take time to see in context, and with prayer and conviction through the Holy Spirit we draw conclusions. The charismatic movement tend to bypass this with "prophetic words", dreams, revelations which are mainly junk. They have turned a considered world wide faith into a laughing stock of criminal embezzelers, liars, fraudsters, dreamers, deluded idiots, but yet we are called to call this a work of the Holy Spirit.
To walk away from the law completely is to deny Jesus and him being the fullfillment of the law, the ultimate meaning of salvation the the Kingdom of God.
Too many have become peddlers of superstitious spirits who cause sin in peoples lives and not sinful hearts seeking selfish ends. You can deal with evil spirits, it required repentence and spiritual honesty to deal with sin. What a suprise a work not of the Lord blames evil spirits for something that is as old as human being, sin......

true dont need judgement from speculation, in judgement you will find no fruit in anyone.
prove its law that is written in hearts and minds. speculation is nothing without proof.
act 15 already told you its a different law, given to a gentile or you cant read , so that again would question, how can you define what is true, if you cant put scripture in context.


8 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

you need conviction from god to believe that jesus died for your sins

 

[john832]

It is a law of righteousness that has been removed, not the law itself that God requires you to keep. THAT LAW has been transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts

For Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. rOM 10:4

And again...

Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The word for "end" here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...

New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4

 

[kennethcadwell]

Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS Rom 10:4

Christ is not the end of the law full stop!

I agree with you, 613 laws do not apply to the Christian. They are not all written on our minds and placed on our hearts. We know which ones are, for when we fail to keep them we MUST have heartfelt conviction we sin by doing so.

But for me the difference is this. If Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS you cannot be made unrighteous before God for your imperfections concerning those laws, it is not possible. THE PROBLEM IS, SOME THEN SAY YOU WANT A LICENCE TO SIN.
So the real problem to me is, do we all agree on what it means for a person to be born again of the Holy Spirit? Do we agree as to what it means for the Holy Spirit to wrote the law God desires a person to keep on their mind and place it on their heart. To me, that stops grace being used as a licence to sin.

Yes we don't have a license to sin, but Paul shows over and over again that our free will is not done away with either. We are still given the choice to obey or disobey the Holy Spirits guidance. Why some would not obey does make sense to me, but the scriptures make it clear that some will not, some will fall to false teaching, and others will be drawn away by their own lusts and troubles in their life.
A couple of books I say others need to read is 1st and 2nd Timothy as well as Jude.
Apostle Paul warns Apostle Timothy that he can become impure again do to sin, and Jude speaks of our common salvation of eternal life through Christ. Jude gives examples such as the Exodus of those who were saved by God out of Egypt but then turned their back on God to go back to idol worship (unbelief). Jude says they were destroyed by God for doing this, and Exodus 32:33 shows they were blotted out of the book of Life for sinning against Him.

 

[john832]

actually, I like that thinking... then the law about murdering is really about hating, and the sabbath laws aren't a certain day of the week, but about living like "the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns."

When you round the corners of your head in honor of Ra the sun god, it might become a moral principle. You are honoring another god beside God Almighty. He seems to be concerned with that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

true dont need judgement from speculation,
prove its law that is written in hearts and minds. speculation is nothing without proof.
act 15 already told you its a different law, given to a gentile or you cant read , so that again would question, how can you define what is true, if you cant put scripture in context

The bible tells us what is written in our hearts, as it shows through Paul's words that God's moral laws is what is written in our hearts. Paul shows over and over again how a born again believer will uphold the 10 commandments by walking in love, and Paul was part of the Apostles back in Acts 15 where they all decided by the Holy Spirit what standards of the OT written ordinances still carried over. They only gave a few and not the whole 613 written ordinances.

 

[john832]

i disagree, why would we again return to an action. the problem with all fall short, is god makes up the difference.
we all dont have the same intellect. if grace is depending on an action, how can it be a gift.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

Would somebody please point out where I have EVER said one is justified by the Law? I have continually said that the Law defines sin. It's purpose is to show us right from wrong.

 

[michael56]

And again...

Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The word for "end" here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...

New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4

I'm sorry but your understanding of scripture is very poor. Firstly you say Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian in Rom 7:7-11 now you try to say Christ is not the end of the law unto righteousness. I see no point in continuing discussing scripture with you, there can be nothing worthwhile gained