Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[john832]

In Rom 7:7-11 Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee pre conversion to Christianity

Of course the law reveals your sin, the law placed on your heart and written on your mind by the Spirit reveals your sin.

I don't mean to be unkind, but this is the basics of the new covenant

Now you are twisting scripture...

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

is written in the present tense. So is this...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The verb "am" is in the present tense.

The past tense of the verb 'am' is 'was' or 'were.' The verb 'am' is derived from the verb 'to be.

Now you can call it anything you wish but misrepresenting scripture is a serious offense.

 

[john832]

Well clearly that is lust, not agape! Agape prays for others and their marriage and helps restore things....Agape don't take from others.....Just one question John...are you born-again of the Spirit of God? Because you have to have no understanding of the Spirit of God that is supposed to be in a believer.

Hold it a minute, how do you define lust? Lust is the breaking of the tenth Commandment.

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I think most legalism comes from those who don't know if the really have the Spirit of God....as Paul would ask "KNOW YE NOT THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU"

 

[Mitspa]

Hold it a minute, how do you define lust? Lust is the breaking of the tenth Commandment.

For those under the law of moses....for those under the law of Christ its breaking the commandment to love.

 

[john832]

I think most legalism comes from those who don't know if the really have the Spirit of God....as Paul would ask "KNOW YE NOT THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU"

Pretty hard to define sin other than what the Bible says, isn't it?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

God's Word says sin is the transgression of the Law.

Mitspa says that a Christian knows what sin is without Law.

I gotta go with the Word on this one.

 

[john832]

For those under the law of moses....for those under the law of Christ its breaking the commandment to love.

Really, so if I don't commit adultery, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

If I don't steal, I am breaking the Law of Christ.

If I don't kill, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

 

[michael56]

Now you are twisting scripture...

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

is written in the present tense. So is this...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The verb "am" is in the present tense.

The past tense of the verb 'am' is 'was' or 'were.' The verb 'am' is derived from the verb 'to be.

Now you can call it anything you wish but misrepresenting scripture is a serious offense.

Do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian in Rom 7:7-11

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


When did the commandment first come to Paul? As a Pharisee or as a Christian?

Paul had not known sin but by the law. When did Paul know ''Thou shalt not covet'' was one of the Ten Commandments? As a Pharisee, or not until he became a Christian?

Was Paul the Pharisee or Paul the Christian slain by sin through the commandment?

Did sin use the commandment Thou shalt not covet to condemn him as a Pharisee or as a Christian?

Did sin work all manner of concupiscence in Paul through his knowledge of the commandment Thou shalt not covet' when he was a Pharisee or when he was a Christian?

Come on

 

[Mitspa]

Really, so if I don't commit adultery, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

If I don't steal, I am breaking the Law of Christ.

If I don't kill, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

What? John are you really trying to have a honest discussion...If your in Christ, you keep HIS commandment of Love...and you will not commit adultery or steal, but you will look to give and help others through His love.

 

[Mitspa]

Pretty hard to define sin other than what the Bible says, isn't it?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

God's Word says sin is the transgression of the Law.

Mitspa says that a Christian knows what sin is without Law.

I gotta go with the Word on this one.

Right and it also says that believer in Christ cannot sin against the law of moses.... Why? Because a believer in Christ is not under the law.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

 

[Lynx]

For all the talk about love in this thread, I have seen none. But you folks sure do like to question the christianity of anyone who disagrees with you. Two pages of insults since I last checked this thread a scant hour ago.

 

[PeterJens]

1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

"Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." Luke 9:26
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:48

Jesus put great emphasis on His words, emphasising that the Holy Spirit would remind the apostles after the resurrection what he had said, and it would now be in context. There is no such thing as a christian faith outside the Bible......

 

[michael56]

For all the talk about love in this thread, I have seen none. But you folks sure do like to question the christianity of anyone who disagrees with you. Two pages of insults since I last checked this thread a scant hour ago.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone

 

[Mitspa]

For all the talk about love in this thread, I have seen none. But you folks sure do like to question the christianity of anyone who disagrees with you. Two pages of insults since I last checked this thread a scant hour ago.

Thanks for coming by to insult everyone

 

[Grandpa]

Really, so if I don't commit adultery, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

If I don't steal, I am breaking the Law of Christ.

If I don't kill, I am breaking the Law of Christ?

Hebrews 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Yeah, it looks like you are still missing something.

Your not killing, not stealing, and not committing adultery isn't making you perfect.

Your carnal understanding and carnal "keeping" of the law is not what perfects you.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal mind isn't subject to the law of God because it thinks it can perform it. It thinks it must perform it. It doesn't realize that it can't perform the law because it isn't subject to it, neither indeed can be.

Ephesians 2:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Lynx]

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone

Forget throwing stones, I'm eating popcorn and watching the show.

 

[Mitspa]

"Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." Luke 9:26
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:48

Jesus put great emphasis on His words, emphasising that the Holy Spirit would remind the apostles after the resurrection what he had said, and it would now be in context. There is no such thing as a christian faith outside the Bible......

Right...its called the New Testament written in His Blood....obedience to faith and love, not legalism!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[PeterJens]

As a christian you have to put the law into context. Some of the law was specific to ceremonies around the temple, what went on and who could perform various actions. Some law is to do with the state of Israel and how various civil and penal laws were executed. There is finally moral law, or law to do with actions which reflect attitudes. Jesus emphasis constantly that loving your neighbour as yourself is the fullfillment of the law itself, its ultimate intent. Without the power of Jesus and the cross, that love working through your life, there is no power to live up to the standard. We are no longer judged by the law as justified, but we still have to walk in righteousness because that is our birth right as children of God.

Those who argue against this are carnal, in reality, claiming the precepts are too hard to live up to. This is why Jesus came to transform your soul, not as a slave but as a free man who is empowered by the Holy Spirit to overcome.

The Pharisees knew they were defeated spiritually and morally, but taught as if they obeyed the law while breaking it all the time.

 

[Mitspa]

As a christian you have to put the law into context. Some of the law was specific to ceremonies around the temple, what went on and who could perform various actions. Some law is to do with the state of Israel and how various civil and penal laws were executed. There is finally moral law, or law to do with actions which reflect attitudes. Jesus emphasis constantly that loving your neighbour as yourself is the fullfillment of the law itself, its ultimate intent. Without the power of Jesus and the cross, that love working through your life, there is no power to live up to the standard. We are no longer judged by the law as justified, but we still have to walk in righteousness because that is our birth right as children of God.

Those who argue against this are carnal, in reality, claiming the precepts are too hard to live up to. This is why Jesus came to transform your soul, not as a slave but as a free man who is empowered by the Holy Spirit to overcome.

The Pharisees knew they were defeated spiritually and morally, but taught as if they obeyed the law while breaking it all the time.

As a Christian we are called to read and believe the bible and obey God through faith and love, not the hypocrisy of legalism and the dead works of the law.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[royalscot]

If the Ten commandments are written on the mind and placed on the heart of the convert, why would they need to read the literal words of the Ten Commandments to know how God wants them to live?

i disagree, why would we again return to an action. the problem with all fall short, is god makes up the difference.
we all dont have the same intellect. if grace is depending on an action, how can it be a gift.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

 

[royalscot]

As a christian you have to put the law into context. Some of the law was specific to ceremonies around the temple, what went on and who could perform various actions. Some law is to do with the state of Israel and how various civil and penal laws were executed. There is finally moral law, or law to do with actions which reflect attitudes. Jesus emphasis constantly that loving your neighbour as yourself is the fullfillment of the law itself, its ultimate intent. Without the power of Jesus and the cross, that love working through your life, there is no power to live up to the standard. We are no longer judged by the law as justified, but we still have to walk in righteousness because that is our birth right as children of God.

Those who argue against this are carnal, in reality, claiming the precepts are too hard to live up to. This is why Jesus came to transform your soul, not as a slave but as a free man who is empowered by the Holy Spirit to overcome.

The Pharisees knew they were defeated spiritually and morally, but taught as if they obeyed the law while breaking it all the time.

putting law in to context would need the decrees as well. and a temple of stone.(to follow fully) as wrote in the torah. and would be directed to a jewish people, person , nation, and to land.

the pharisees argued that god gave them the law, we are a holy nation, yet how many of them seen a new covenant.