Seeker Friendly, vs tradition vs modernization vs distorted gospel

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Ah the Calvinist unconditional election answer..

How can you lead anyone to Jesus as his disciple, if you cannot even state the assurance of your own salvation, which the Bible clearly teaches?
I can and know beyond question the assurance of my own salvation. I can't know yours. Don't you get it? You could be a tare and I certainly would not know that. If I could know, Jesus wouldn't have said to leave them for the harvesters.

And by the way, I have to get up, fall to the floor, and laugh my butt off every time you try to call me a Calvinist.
 
@Sophia

Btw, I really liked your OP and where you're coming from there.

Sorry if I sounded sharp in the last post, too - it was not my intent... This teaching of striving does not lead towards God and never will, no matter what people tell you... I've tested and proven it in my own life, out of love, or out of fear, it doesnt matter, striving never brings the works of God about. Whenever I was delivered of a habitual sin it's been by grace and faith in God that I will be delivered... if I did something good, it was surely not because I strived... because when we strive we "know" a record of our good works like the pharisee, and that's something God hates (Luke 18:12)... Many on here teach and believe striving is the way, I'm sorry it appears that I replied specifically to you - I know there are other threads where this is taught too... the only reason I replied is because it was said explicitly to strive... my post is not against your person, you are precious on this forum <3, but I'm warning against this teaching that is so contrary to God's rest...
 
I can and know beyond question the assurance of my own salvation. I can't know yours. Don't you get it? You could be a tare and I certainly would not know that. If I could know, Jesus wouldn't have said to leave them for the harvesters.

Sorry friend, you admitted in your little jokey summary with Brother Peter at the Gate, what you believe.....and you caught up in the moment and are now self-exposed for the TULIP growing Calvinist you are...

Furthermore the Bible Teaches the Holy Spirit will show you all things...something you obviously do not believe in either...

The Bible says the meat of the word is for those of full age, who have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil...it seems you cannot do either, so keep on eating all that powdered milk...
 
Sorry friend, you admitted in your little jokey summary with Brother Peter at the Gate, what you believe.....and you caught up in the moment and are now self-exposed for the TULIP growing Calvinist you are...
rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif

Only one thing to say after that ...

[video=youtube;hxGgnI6kCrs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxGgnI6kCrs[/video]

I'll leave you to your wild-eyed "prophetic" fantasies from here on out. Enjoy!
 
We are called to go and do good works... ones that were even prepared in advance for us to do.
Working for the Kingdom does not equate to "striving for salvation".
We are called to resist the flesh, pursue righteousness, and strive for the sake of the Gospel and for the sake of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Mitspa... are you striving?
What are you fighting against? and is it presented on this thread, or are you just pretending that someone said something legalistic?
No Im not striving at good works...they are a "fruit" and a work of grace. We are not told to strive at good works but to maintain good works...

A tree does not "strive" to bear fruit.

Lu 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
 
A preacher telling the audience to repeat a prayer 'asking Jesus into your heart' and declaring them saved without telling them that Jesus died on the cross or rose from the dead, is a messed up 'gospel' if you ask me.
 
Striving is opposite to resting in faith of Christ which is commanded to us. Striving is my own work not God's works.
This teaching of striving is so unspeakably damaging, especially to young Christians... and there are many who just browse forums. And no resting in faith of Christ does NOT mean do whatever you want. Because it's impossible to do whatever you want when you're Resting In God and communing with God without ceasing. We cannot focus on ourselves, God is the focus. No "striving out of love" either as many say. Another trap taught in attempt to drag Christians into self-induced, worthless works. Nothing could be farther from God and less successful in defeating demons. What works is GOD and relationship with Him, setting our mind on Him always, renewing our minds with His Word. Striving, out of love, or fear, does not ever produce fruit. Resting in God and running to Him in faith is the only way that produces fruit and sets us free, when we trust like a little child. If we are striving we cant be resting at the same time. So where is that long promised rest of God?

I truly appreciate most of your posts on here Sis... but on this one I'll have to say it is damaging... We all start in the same spot, "having begun in the Spirit", and all goes fine, we get free from addictions and bondages, walk more and more with God, until the day when some people come and tell us that we need to "strive" as if God will not continue His work if we only keep trusting and abiding... that moment the Christian falls down into the flesh trying to induce "good works" himself... this has destroyed so many, myself in the past included... writing this because of young Christians who browse the forums so it does not happen to them as it did to me... set your eyes and mind on God always not on yourself... wish people just knew how actually damaging and unfruitful this "striving" teaching is. And no grace is not cheap...
I understand fully, as I have seen and felt that same damaging mentality,
But going to the opposite extreme is a serious issue too.

Paul tells us to run the race. He tells us to pursue holiness and good work.
Being active for the Kingdom is something we are called to, and putting off the distractions and affairs of this world is a major part of that.

I see so many, in my own congregation, who are stuck in a spiritual rut.
They are either overcome by sin: fighting against it by their own strength, and failing, and getting depressed over it.
Or they are consumed with "Christian culture", distracted by worldly affairs of politics, conspiracy theories, wars and rumors of wars, or just trying to look the part of a "good Christian".
Or they are in a rut of self-focused spirituality, where the personal experience is all that matters, and things like doctrine are not important, and ministering/sharing with others is not a focus.

Some people push doctrine away, as if Truth is relative to their experiences,
Others push spiritual things and experiencing God's love away, as if God's love and grace is supposed to be scholastic only.
And still others push cultural things as the focus, as if looking the part and voting the part somehow make us real Christians.

There is a balance, and it is found in the Word. We are to be confident in Christ, humble of self, and active for the Kingdom. The rest we have is spiritual, eternal, and an amazing blessing. This rest in Christ is not in opposition to us being active hard working laborers for the Kingdom.

But you are right in your assessment that meat can choke those young in Christ, and that they need milk first.
However, many of the groups I mentioned aren't just giving milk. They are giving milk mixed with poison.
 
@Sophia

Btw, I really liked your OP and where you're coming from there.

Sorry if I sounded sharp in the last post, too - it was not my intent... This teaching of striving does not lead towards God and never will, no matter what people tell you... I've tested and proven it in my own life, out of love, or out of fear, it doesnt matter, striving never brings the works of God about. Whenever I was delivered of a habitual sin it's been by grace and faith in God that I will be delivered... if I did something good, it was surely not because I strived... because when we strive we "know" a record of our good works like the pharisee, and that's something God hates (Luke 18:12)... Many on here teach and believe striving is the way, I'm sorry it appears that I replied specifically to you - I know there are other threads where this is taught too... the only reason I replied is because it was said explicitly to strive... my post is not against your person, you are precious on this forum <3, but I'm warning against this teaching that is so contrary to God's rest...
Striving is not to get TO God, but is what we are called to do once we already are in Christ.
We are secure in our salvation... and given a job to do now that we are there.
 
Striving is opposite to resting in faith of Christ which is commanded to us. Striving is my own work not God's works.
This teaching of striving is so unspeakably damaging, especially to young Christians... and there are many who just browse forums. And no resting in faith of Christ does NOT mean do whatever you want. Because it's impossible to do whatever you want when you're Resting In God and communing with God without ceasing. We cannot focus on ourselves, God is the focus. No "striving out of love" either as many say. Another trap taught in attempt to drag Christians into self-induced, worthless works. Nothing could be farther from God and less successful in defeating demons. What works is GOD and relationship with Him, setting our mind on Him always, renewing our minds with His Word. Striving, out of love, or fear, does not ever produce fruit. Resting in God and running to Him in faith is the only way that produces fruit and sets us free, when we trust like a little child. If we are striving we cant be resting at the same time. So where is that long promised rest of God?

I truly appreciate most of your posts on here Sis... but on this one I'll have to say it is damaging... We all start in the same spot, "having begun in the Spirit", and all goes fine, we get free from addictions and bondages, walk more and more with God, until the day when some people come and tell us that we need to "strive" as if God will not continue His work if we only keep trusting and abiding... that moment the Christian falls down into the flesh trying to induce "good works" himself... this has destroyed so many, myself in the past included... writing this because of young Christians who browse the forums so it does not happen to them as it did to me... set your eyes and mind on God always not on yourself... wish people just knew how actually damaging and unfruitful this "striving" teaching is. And no grace is not cheap...
It's as though God eased up to you and whispered this directly in your ear. Grace does seem so difficult for some people who insist on somehow paying for it.
 
No Im not striving at good works...they are a "fruit" and a work of grace. We are not told to strive at good works but to maintain good works...

A tree does not "strive" to bear fruit.

Lu 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
I agree with you, except that Paul tells us to labor for the sake of the Gospel and the Kingdom.
Your issue with the word "striving" is unfounded.

We don't strive to get saved, or strive to maintain salvation,
but strive because of what He has already done for us.
Faith is to be put into action, not hidden under a bowl.

Encouraging people unto righteousness is a basic part of being a Believer, and not to be neglected.
 
I understand fully, as I have seen and felt that same damaging mentality,
But going to the opposite extreme is a serious issue too.
I'm not going to any opposite extreme. I only say that focusing on God daily and abiding in Him is how we grow. And also you dont fix the opposite extreme by going into the opposite extreme of the opposite extreme.

Paul tells us to run the race. He tells us to pursue holiness and good work.
Being active for the Kingdom is something we are called to, and putting off the distractions and affairs of this world is a major part of that.
...
This rest in Christ is not in opposition to us being active hard working laborers for the Kingdom.
Laboring in the Kingdom does not come by striving, even "in love", it comes by seeking God first... and His yoke is gentle, right? The Holy Spirit brings you to that spot by changing who you are in Jesus. We are on the receiving end but this is so hard to people to accept...

But you are right in your assessment that meat can choke those young in Christ, and that they need milk first.

No, sorry, it's not what I said. I said that man cannot strive and produce good works as a result... it's not how good works come and it will never be... I'll leave it there... I agree we disagree. P.S. sorry for snipping your post, it's because I wanted to clarify and not turn this into debate
 
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I agree with you, except that Paul tells us to labor for the sake of the Gospel and the Kingdom.
Your issue with the word "striving" is unfounded.

We don't strive to get saved, or strive to maintain salvation,
but strive because of what He has already done for us.
Faith is to be put into action, not hidden under a bowl.

Encouraging people unto righteousness is a basic part of being a Believer, and not to be neglected.
It could be a matter of what words mean to you and words as used in scripture ...but yes we labor in the Word...and grace empowers us unto good works...but you enter into grace by ceasing from your own works and into the rest of God.
 
I don't know where the word "strive" got such a bad wrap, but it's not through Scripture.
1 Timothy 4
6If you put these things before the brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10For to this end we toil and strive,[SUP]b[/SUP] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.11Command and teach these things.

Colossians 1
9For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
---
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.
 
Romans 15:30
1 Corinthians 14:12
Hebrews 12:14
Phil 1:27

And the clincher, which explains how rest and striving coincide: Hebrew 4:11
 
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The point of 'striving' in the context of this as far as I can tell is simply to do what Scripture teaches. It is all well and good to say we should focus on God daily (and indeed we should, because he is the source of everything we have and will have), but that is not the end point of the Christian life, or the mission life. That is not what grace entails at all.

At the beginning of Acts, the disciples spend several days doing little else but prayer and in contemplation of the Scriptures. When the free gift of the Holy Spirit comes upon them, they do not continue in the upper room. They leave, they preach, they call to repentance, they proclaim grace in Christ, they go out as sent ones (apostolos) to do the work that God has given them to do. This does not undermine grace, but flows from it - their efforts do not create salvation, and indeed their work is ineffectual if it is not the work that God has sent them for. But that does not mean they do not work, suffer, labour for the gospel in what they do.

I feel like people arguing against 'striving' in this thread are arguing against something no one is really arguing for. No one (at least not the OP) is suggesting you receive grace by works. But it is by grace that we can do the works that God has given us. In fact, it is precisely for good works that we are created in Christ .
 
The point of 'striving' in the context of this as far as I can tell is simply to do what Scripture teaches. It is all well and good to say we should focus on God daily (and indeed we should, because he is the source of everything we have and will have), but that is not the end point of the Christian life, or the mission life. That is not what grace entails at all.

At the beginning of Acts, the disciples spend several days doing little else but prayer and in contemplation of the Scriptures. When the free gift of the Holy Spirit comes upon them, they do not continue in the upper room. They leave, they preach, they call to repentance, they proclaim grace in Christ, they go out as sent ones (apostolos) to do the work that God has given them to do. This does not undermine grace, but flows from it - their efforts do not create salvation, and indeed their work is ineffectual if it is not the work that God has sent them for. But that does not mean they do not work, suffer, labour for the gospel in what they do.

I feel like people arguing against 'striving' in this thread are arguing against something no one is really arguing for. No one (at least not the OP) is suggesting you receive grace by works. But it is by grace that we can do the works that God has given us. In fact, it is precisely for good works that we are created in Christ .

Its always like that everywhere, one side favors one thing (gets word nuts, and it becomes strifes of words) and the other side is like, "look, this is not against grace" and then everything you quote in the NT becomes Moses (suddenly)
It just seems really retarded, theres actually more effort output needed to even have a discussion here then Moses even require in all the law

(lol) Okay, I couldnt resist, all thats ever done here is striving, its just weird to be against a word that so defines the actual enviroment we post in (ironically)
 
I don't know where the word "strive" got such a bad wrap, but it's not through Scripture.
1 Timothy 4
6If you put these things before the brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10For to this end we toil and strive,[SUP]b[/SUP] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.11Command and teach these things.

Colossians 1
9For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
---
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

Like I said maybe its a word issue?

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
 
Like I said maybe its a word issue?

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
It's a doctrinal issue, and a heart issue.
We are called to run the race,
not sit idly on the side line pretending that the finish line will come to us.
He gives us strength, and we are to use it.
 
Like I said maybe its a word issue?

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

lets put things into context of the whole counsel of God...

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 
It's a doctrinal issue, and a heart issue.
We are called to run the race,
not sit idly on the side line pretending that the finish line will come to us.
He gives us strength, and we are to use it.

Ok ...but the flesh cannot run a spiritual race..."works" are dead if they are based on the flesh and legalism. Now true "works" are from the Spirit and will of God...not the carnal mind of man.

And again a person who knows the true grace of God will always outrun those in mixture of law and grace...always!
 
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