S
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Look if I use the term "legalist" and it convicts you...then maybe you need to ask God if you have some issues to resolve?
S
Sophia
Guest
M
Mitspa
Guest
When I see the term greasy grace...I know Im dealing with a person who really don't understand the truth of the gospel.
M
Mitspa
Guest
No, I see someone who is probably a legalist and should be reproved according to scripture
S
Sophia
Guest
I never have used that phrase,
however when people cheapen grace to the point of it being insufficient to entirely cover our sins,
or to the point of it not being worth any response from us,
I call it "cheap grace".
S
Sophia
Guest
"Probably a legalist".No, I see someone who is probably a legalist and should be reproved according to scripture
Obviously you don't read anything I post.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Oh ok maybe I have failed to see your points? But maybe you have failed to see my points?
I think when I come on this thread I was looking at the last few post.
What would grace be, to you, if we didn't perform what you might consider sufficient effort in responding to it?
M
Mitspa
Guest
You know what Sophia...I surrender to you on this issue and I think I was wrong in how I seen what you was trying to say...Forgive me please in the Name of the Lord?
S
Sophia
Guest
S
Sophia
Guest
Sufficient response? None of us can respond sufficiently.
But it is certainly worth response to it.
Then how can you or I make a statement like this?
Personally, I would see the first person mentioned here, as simply not understanding grace.
And, I have never seen anyone who called themselves a Christian do what you seem to see people doing in the latter part of your post. "Yes", I do see people judging them, and accusing them of either not responding, or not doing enough. (Didn't you just do that, here?), however I don't really know WHAT they are doing as they go through life, nor can I say what their heart's response is to the things Jesus has done for them
But, I am reminded of the Widow's Mite. To possible "judging" onlookers, it might seem she was being stingy, and shorting the Lord in skimpy giving. But, we forget that, just like in that instance, no one except Jesus knows the actual facts of a Spiritual matter.
I also happen to think that all those "examination" verses we like to quote to justify us labeling others were meant for us to judge ourselves, not to go bird-dogging others, and then go putting them into our little classification boxes.
So, truthfully, what business is it of ours to claim what other people are, or aren't? Do we think we are religious Paul Reveres?
Last edited:
So we can have some sort of agreement on the point of the Widow's mite: The point is not whether or not someone responds and gives and serves or not - clearly, all the people in the story give of their money, the rich more than the widow. There is no one simply sitting on their backside.
The POINT of the story is that the widow gives much out of what she has, which is very little, as opposed to the rich, who give very little out of what they have much of. Clearly, Jesus commends the widow for giving. The point is what is given compared to your capacity to give, not out of the real size of the gift.
I don't see this thread as judging specific people - certainly, I think we as Christians should be looking to exhort and correct each other, and I don't think we should forgo correction just because "we don't know what the Lord is doing in their life." Jesus didn't, Paul didn't, Peter didn't, the fathers didn't. If the criticism is mislaid, then in a spirit of brother/sisterhood, that can be dealt with.
But I think the problem in the wider church this thread is addressing is not to do with people not giving a lot in real terms. It is criticism of the whole ideology of what we should be 'giving' or 'working towards'. Certainly, Jesus in the Widow's Mite seems prepared to criticism those who have much and give little of it, and commends the one who has little and gives little. Why does Jesus calls attention to the whole event, and the treasury in Mark 12:43, and what is he trying to teach his disciples?
My experience is that many of us Christians in Western countries tend to have lots. Every now and then we need to consider carefully what it is that we are 'giving'. That goes for me, and is not aimed at anyone in particular here.
The POINT of the story is that the widow gives much out of what she has, which is very little, as opposed to the rich, who give very little out of what they have much of. Clearly, Jesus commends the widow for giving. The point is what is given compared to your capacity to give, not out of the real size of the gift.
I don't see this thread as judging specific people - certainly, I think we as Christians should be looking to exhort and correct each other, and I don't think we should forgo correction just because "we don't know what the Lord is doing in their life." Jesus didn't, Paul didn't, Peter didn't, the fathers didn't. If the criticism is mislaid, then in a spirit of brother/sisterhood, that can be dealt with.
But I think the problem in the wider church this thread is addressing is not to do with people not giving a lot in real terms. It is criticism of the whole ideology of what we should be 'giving' or 'working towards'. Certainly, Jesus in the Widow's Mite seems prepared to criticism those who have much and give little of it, and commends the one who has little and gives little. Why does Jesus calls attention to the whole event, and the treasury in Mark 12:43, and what is he trying to teach his disciples?
My experience is that many of us Christians in Western countries tend to have lots. Every now and then we need to consider carefully what it is that we are 'giving'. That goes for me, and is not aimed at anyone in particular here.
O
oldthennew
Guest
T
The_highwayman
Guest
No, I see someone who is probably a legalist and should be reproved according to scripture
You know what? The sooner you realize you are not the Holy Spirit, is the moment the spirit of truth will come upon you...
T
The_highwayman
Guest
I really like your thoughts here Sophia and they are dead on....Jesus told us we are not of the world, and so many so called Christians fear what is going on in the world and how it impacts them...Jesus also said that he told us things to give us peace and that in the world there will be tribulations, sorrows and trials, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
Sons and daughters of God are overcomers, but this is never taught or preached at all....and when it is even mentioned, we re usually attacked for being works based salvation believers or worse...Jesus had a lot to say about his sons and daughters overcoming the world....you are on the right track, kudo's for your bravery in posting it all
FWIW it is not even milk its powdered milk....
T
The_highwayman
Guest
Knowing what God's Grace did for us and then bearing fruit in our calling is not paying for grace....
M
Mitspa
Guest
T
The_highwayman
Guest
This is where you and warrior fail...Grace is not God's righteousness. By stating you enter into Grace, you are stating you have to perform something of yourself to enter in God's rest.
Grace is God's love and unmerited favor period. Grace is not a position you enter into, righteousness is.
Grace is not the position of rightoeusness that you obtain through faith in what Jesus did on the cross.
It is not...
For God was so righteous for the world that he gave his only begotten son
IT IS....
For God so loved and God had so much unmerited favor towards us that he gave his only begotten son
Until you properly understand grace, you will never understand the Position of righteousness, that is given by God's grace[love, unmeritied favor] and he imputes to us by our faith for believing what Jesus did on the cross for you. This is the gospel.
Whenyou tell people you enter into grace, you are telling us that you have to earn God's grace, therefore you teach a false works based salvation...
You do nothing to earn or enter into God's grace. His grace is there for you to receive....
Your head will explode reading this, because you and warrior are TULIP Calvinists and this goes against the very ideas of predestination and unconditional election....
You shout at others for stating they are works based and then out of the other side of your mouth demand we enter into grace....so who is talking works based salvation!?!?
Yeah, you are....