First, what is your proof of the validity of your charts?
They're from an international panel at the WHO.
Second, I was in the national health system of England for over 2 years when I lived in Manchester; but it was long ago -- things may have changed since then. As I recall one's wages were taxed at about 5 percent then for the "free service."
Never heard of this. We get taxed about 20% (most of us), and money gets given to the NHS. Your payslip doesn't include where you taxes go, but we pay less percentage of our taxes for the NHS than you guys do for Medicaid or Medicare.
I went to a dentist at the U of Manchester to get me teeth cleaned. He counted me teeth and remarked how I had them all. He didn't want to clean them as it would traumatize my gums! But failing to clean traumatizes gums, not the very minor hurt done during cleaning. My explanation: If your doctor does not get paid for doing procedures, but just has a list of patients to take care of with a salary, the doctor will not want to do procedures. On the other hand, if the doc gets paid for procedures, he will be eager to do them even if not needed.
So, you base your opinions on the merit of salary and socialized medicine over pay-at-point-of-contact medicine because what, you visited a University Dental School to get your teeth cleaned once and had a crap experience?
I knew this guy at Needham Hall where I was a resident who was studying to be a doctor, fully paid for (I think) by the British taxpayers. He started right away at his doctoring training & would have 3 bachelor's degrees when he finished a 5 year study. In the USA you have to do a 4 year bachelor's degree (not 3) before you even start medical training & they get a doctor of med here. Interestingly enough, as i understand it if they get a doctor's degree in England & become a specialist, they are now called "mister" instead of doctor!
That's just false. They're called ''doctor'', and aren't ''doctors'' until they finish education. Our combined Bachelors with Honours/ Masters in medicine is usually 6-7 years (that's for graduate qualification) in which time work experience will be taken at NHS institutions, then after completion of the degree course around four years of medical onsite foundational and specialism training will be taken.
It takes around ten years to become a fully qualified doctor. As such, a full length programme in UK medicine is notoriously the most sleep-depriving, most taxing qualification in UK education.
At any rate, this bloke studying medicine at the U of M/ch was planning as soon as he was trained & had his British credentials to emigrate to the USA!
Money talks, I suppose.
I was told that in England if you had some serious problem that required a specialist, you could be put on a very long waiting list -- who knows, maybe a year. In the USA, you can often just go right direct to your specialist without wasting time on a GP.
It depends on the problem. If it's urgent, it's urgent. If it's not, it can wait. But here's the thing, in the UK, the percentage of our taxes spent on the medicine sector is less than half that of the US, per capita. And if we really want to, we can go to a private doctor and get treatment by a specialist with NO waiting list, paying out of our pockets a fraction of what surgical or medical procedures cost in the US.
Private doctors and surgeries do exist here, but for those who can't afford it, the NHS is sufficient.
I went to the doctor's office once in England. It was like an old Victorian house (no resemblance to an American doctor's office). There was an incredibly long waiting time and many people in the queue. The examination table seemed to be a not-new couch.
Doctors have offices in many different types of buildings, it's up to them really, when they opne their practices. The everyday doctors (general practitioners) are paid by the NHS per patient. I don't really see your point though, my GP's practice is well organized, and smells like cleaning fluids -- like a doctor's should.
There are waiting times, but there are waiting times at practically every medical place -- dentist, doctor, hospital. It's the case all over the world, as far as my experience goes. It's the case in Spain, France, Germany, Turkey, anywhere I've been.
Penicillin was freely given without any test for its need.
I really have never experienced anything like this. It sounds like nonsense. Doctors really aren't this thick.
IMHO, American medical treatment is the best in the world. But it has gotten too expensive. Obama's solution was to force everyone to get medical insurance or fine them for disobeying. It is a welfare system for insurance companies and doctors.
In your opinion, maybe. But polls and studies say otherwise. In fact, it is, by the studies I have given you, far from the best in the world.
Before ObamaCare & existing alongside of it now is a huge county hospital system, for which the tax payers (that may be like your rate-payers -- real estate tax) pay large taxes to support. Anyone can walk into the emergency room of a county hospital. People may not be refused care there. They will send you bills asking you to pay. But you can't get blood out of a turnip. You may have to wait a long time to see a doctor at the county hospital.
Okay.
When I was there doctors were still making house calls for sick children. This doctor came out on Christmas day to see my daughter -- he didn't seem very happy about it. There would not be a need for that in the USA. We "all" have cars & can take our kids to the doctor's office or the paramedics will come rapidly if there is something really serious that demands it.
We get housecalls in the UK, too. if requested.
IMHO, governments do not run things well. And if some such service is run by a government, it is not likely to be efficient or excellent.
My experience, and most of the British public's experience, as per ''State of the Nation' reports, is contrary. Most Brits are proud of the NHS.
Actually I like the old USA system (as I understand it):
where hardly anyone had insurance, but doctors were expected to do some pro bono work with poor people. The doctor treated you & then sent you a bill. When I sent to the doc as a young child, the doc would hand you the medicine himself. Now there is a second company to support, the Pharmacy (the Chemist for you).
Doctors sometimes do give medicines, but it's simply much easier to have a place a person can go with a script (prescription) and get their medicine.
Insurance or govt system, created another set of mouths to feed -- the insurance company has to make a profit & pay an army of persons to handle insurance. This comes out of the patient's hide.
Exactly. The pursuance of profit means higher cost.
If a government system runs it, then you have a bunch of bureaucrats to pay & that comes out of the taxpayer's hide.
That's true, but our expenses,per capita, from taxes, are less than yours, even though you don't have socialized healthcare. The reason for this is that the government don't try to profit from the NHS, and can haggle with pharmaceutical compaies and other suppliers simply because they are the arbiters of medicine and anyone who wants to do business in medicine in the UK must gain the support of those in charge of the NHS. The government also facilitate manufacture and self-reliance in various medical aspects.
In the USA we also have an army of lawyers to pay who siphon a huge amount of money from health care via tort suits, attorneys paid on contingency, like 30-40 precent of whatever they win. This drives up the cost of malpractice insurance and thus the cost of treatment.
I know. In the UK, we sign waver forms for surgery that mean we are unable to sue the government for ''fair inconveniences'' and such. Basically, if they hospital are genuinely negligent (they leave a scalpel in my stomach or something ridiculous) I can sue. But if my wound leaves a scar or something stupid, I can't.
Last I knew Canadians with their health service had difficulty getting access to certain procedures like MRI's & crossed the border to the USA for things.
MRI's are expensive, so the way it works here is that if you need one, you'll be able to have one within a few weeks. However, if you WANT one on request, you'll have to go to a private docs and pay for it.
At any rate, I choose freedom. Spare me the Big Brother.
This seems to be like, some blanket argument you Americans shout out that trumps anything else lol I don't feel any less ''free'' for having the NHS, in fact I feel more free, and less worried. I can go to a doctors or hospital an get treatment at any time without worrying about the cost.
I can also go the a private doctor or surgeon and pay if I so wish. I don't have to worry about medicines, because scripts are free. I had my eyes tested a few weeks ago by a professional ophthalmic specialist, absolutely for free. I've had several life-saving surgeries from the NHS ad I've never encountered a problem. The staff were helpful and polite, the premises were well cleaned and well kept, the surgeons were humorous and professional, the procedures went fine and I recovered okay.
