Legalism empowers DEMONS in your life!

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Jan 25, 2015
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I am one of the strongest ADVOCATES that SALVATION IS ONLY BY GRACE ALONE. What you seem to misunderstand, is that SALVATION and Sanctification are two different things. I was NOT talking about Salvation, but rather our Sactification of the body and our CHRISTIAN WALK.
I agree with you that salvation is by grace alone because everything we have is grace. Where we could disagree is that you believe that grace is a new concept where as I believe it to be there from day one and I will explain myself with the following verses:

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Ex 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it [is] a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Ezra 9:8 And now for a little space grace hath been [shewed] from the Lord our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

Pss 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Pss 84:11 For the Lord God [is] a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good [thing] will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

And so we can continue with more and more verses showing that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow regarding grace and every other aspect in the Bible.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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I agree with you that salvation is by grace alone because everything we have is grace. Where we could disagree is that you believe that grace is a new concept where as I believe it to be there from day one and I will explain myself with the following verses:

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Ex 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it [is] a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Ezra 9:8 And now for a little space grace hath been [shewed] from the Lord our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

Pss 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Pss 84:11 For the Lord God [is] a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good [thing] will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

And so we can continue with more and more verses showing that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow regarding grace and every other aspect in the Bible.
Can I ask, what do you believe is the difference between the old and new covenants? The essential core difference/s
 
Jan 25, 2015
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The core difference is the redemption plan:

1) In the Old Testament we had the blood of the lamb
2) The New Testament we have the blood of the Lamb

This is over simplified but you get the picture.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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The core difference is the redemption plan:

1) In the Old Testament we had the blood of the lamb
2) The New Testament we have the blood of the Lamb

This is over simplification but you get the picture.
l would say there is more to it than that, but thank you for your opinion.

For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:24-26
 
Jan 25, 2015
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l would say there is more to it than that, but thank you for your opinion.

For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:24-26
Michael, where did I say we should keep on crucifying Jesus? The offer was made, the blood was spilled.

If you want to get a Jew going ask him why they don't sacrifice animals anymore. Just make sure you are outside his house with a getaway car waiting...
 
Feb 5, 2015
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Michael, where did I say we should keep on crucifying Jesus? The offer was made, the blood was spilled.

If you want to get a Jew going ask him why they don't sacrifice animals anymore. Just make sure you are outside his house with a getaway car waiting...
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

You only mentioned one of the two core components of the new covenant. That is, unless you do not accept the above is the core of the new covenant, you may not
 
Jan 25, 2015
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You quoted Jeremiah 31:33 earlier today. Do you believe you are Israel?
 
Feb 5, 2015
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You quoted Jeremiah 31:33 earlier today. Do you believe you are Israel?
Could you answer the question, then I will answer yours. Do you believe the following is the core of the new covenant, yes or no:

“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Could you answer the question, then I will answer yours. Do you believe the following is the core of the new covenant, yes or no:

“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
Yes, I believe this is important for the new covenant.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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Yes, I believe this is important for the new covenant.
Then you believe that though in Jeremiah 31, and Heb 8 it was stated specifically concerning '' Israel'', you believe it is the core(or important) to the new covenant the Christian is under. Thank you for explaining that.

The reason I initially quoted it, was because when I asked you the difference between the old and new covenants, you only mentioned one of what you term important things, not the other
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Then you believe that though in Jeremiah, and Heb 8 it was stated specifically for Israel, you believe it is the core(or important) to the new covenant. Thank you for explaining that.

The reason I initially quoted it, was because when I asked you the difference between the old and new covenants, you only mentioned one of what you term important things, not the other
I believe that I am Israel else Yeshua didn't came for me, and we know He is not a liar :) therefore I can also read this verse and understand that I will be part of the bride.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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A reminder of another teaching from the epistles, Ephesians.


ph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 2:4
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Why does it teach we are no longer walking in disobedienc?
 
Feb 5, 2015
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I believe that I am Israel else Yeshua didn't came for me, and we know He is not a liar :) therefore I can also read this verse and understand that I will be part of the bride.
Under the new covenant there is only one sacrifice for sin. As the quote in Hebrews 9 stated, the high priest had to enter the most holy place for the sins of all the people each year, who were under the old covenant, under the new covenant such sacrifices do not have to be made. For Christ's sacrifice was a once and for all time sacrifice for those who would come to the Father through him. Therefore, our sins are covered by Jesus death for us at Calvary under the new covenant.

And by that sacrifice the Christian has been made perfect forever even while they are being made holy Heb 10:14.

In order for grace not to be used as a licence for sin, there had to be more to the new covenant than Jesus simply dying for your sins, there had to be another part of it to stop this happening.
By the law being placed on the heart and written on the mind of the convert, they have been changed into someone, in effect who wants in their heart to live as God desires them to. Such a person can and does commit sin, for none are perfect, but they cannot wilfully sin without conscience, that is not possible, the law on their heart does not allow for that. And the longer someone commits wilfull sin, the more their conscience will hurt them until they come before their Father in Heaven and asks his forgiveness for their folly. They come as a child does to a parent and seeks their forgiveness, not because their position in the family is threatened, but because they love their parent, and can have no rest or peace until they seek their forgiveness
It is on the point of the law being placed on the heart and written on the mind, you and I may disagree.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hi, thanks for the input. I agree that the Messiah is the center of our faith. My journey started with Him and continues with Him. I look to how He lived His life, how He walked, and I aim to do the same. Here are some things to consider, friend...

The Messiah righteously accused the Law teachers and Pharisees of setting aside commands of God found in the Torah-Law, now some of us stand on the side of those He accused.
And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! -- Mark 7:9 (NIV)


They falsely accused Him of breaking the Law (in many places in the gospels) or seeking to change it, now some of us stand on the side of the Messiah's accusers in agreement with them.

For we have heard him [Stephen] say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us.” -- Acts 6:14 (NIV)


They falsely accused Stephen of speaking against the Torah-Law, now some of us stand on the side of Stephen's accusers in agreement with them.

They produced false witnesses, who testified, “This fellow [Stephen] never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law." -- Acts 6:13 (NIV)


They falsely accused Paul of teaching Jews to turn away from Moses and of living in disobedience to the Torah-Law, now some of us stand on the side of Paul's accusers in agreement with them.

They [Jewish believers in Jerusalem] have been informed that you [Paul] teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs." -- Acts 21:21 (NIV)

They [some Jews at the Temple] stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, shouting, “Fellow Israelites, help us! This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place." -- Acts 21:27b-28a (NIV)


And what was Paul's response to these false accusations? At the request of James, Paul makes a public display of his obedience to the Torah-Law.

"What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them. -- Acts 21:22-26 (NIV)


He defends himself to Felix against the false accusations.

"And they [Paul's accusers] cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. -- Acts 24:13-15 (NIV)


He defends himself to Festus against the false accusations.

Then Paul made his defense: “I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar.” -- Acts 25:8


He defends himself to local Jewish leaders in Rome against the false charges.

Three days later he called together the local Jewish leaders. When they had assembled, Paul said to them: “My brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our ancestors, I was arrested in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. -- Acts 28:17 (NIV)


As for the Scriptures you brought, I've seen these discussed in detail in previous posts on this board, so I'll keep my response short and we can go into further detail, if you like.

Acts 2 -- Sorry, I'm not sure what you want me to look at here. Can you please clarify?

Acts 10 -- Peter's vision is in regards to people only. Specifically, he was to understand from the vision that the Gentiles with the Holy Spirit were to be regarded as clean. There is no lesson about eating unclean meats here. When Peter retells the story twice on different occasions in the following chapters, he never mentions anything about unclean meats. He interprets the vision only with regards to Gentiles, so I'm going to stick with Peter's interpretation and not insert an interpretation that is not presented in the text. A revelation of this magnitude regarding unclean meats would have been monumentally life-changing in the Jewish community, but there's absolute silence on the matter, no one says a peep about it because no one understood any change having occurred.

Acts 15 -- The four commands to the Gentiles are simply a starting point. No one agrees that these are the only four things Christians must keep. The expectation is they would learn more as they grew. The lesson here is that ritual conversion by circumcision is not a requirement for salvation for Gentiles. After their confession of faith, the Holy Spirit cleanses them and they begin their journey from there. There are no works, such as circumcision, that come before salvation. Salvation comes first, obedience comes after.


god has his plan in place
,
7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.Matthew 7

he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49



unclean person and unclean food are two different things.
.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."Acts 10

acts 15 never said leave the 10 command in place, no matter how you read it. yet how are some still looking at what paul calls a school teacher till jesus came. they still would not agree even when 70 ad said to both jews and gentile ,how can you follow the full law given to moses, without a temple of stone.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
What if we are not trying to justify our flesh, but we just want to be obedient to our Father out of love? Is loving, being obedient and respecting our Father legalism?
I have said about 10,000 times now , that faith and love are true obedience to God, legalism is not!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
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NOW compare what you just said to what JESUS HIMSELF SAID:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keepMy commands. {NOT JUST HIS ROYAL LAW.}

Leviticus 19:34 (NKJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

1 John 3:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? {Implied answer is the LOVE OF GOD DOES NOT DWELL IN HIM.}

Romans 12:11-16 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.

2 Corinthians 9:11-13 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] You will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission that comes from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others,



If you are the perfect example of keeping HIS Royal Law that you seem to think you are, have you sold your house or car yet, to have more to give to the needs of the Christian Refugees who are fleeing ISIS?

I think YOUR definition of Christian LOVE is to walk up to the man who has been severely beaten and mugged, and is laying in the road bleeding; and say "May GOD Bless YOU" and WALK AWAY. Christ's definition is to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to help him physically and financially.


Luke 10:25-37King James Version (KJV)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

YOU ARE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT OF BIBLICAL LOVE that spawns out of the LOVE of GOD that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts.

I seriously doubt if you will understand why I included this 3 minute video clip. That is how shallow I think your definition of LOVE actually is:


[video=youtube;vOoWpTxKJGA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoWpTxKJGA[/video]
No your missing the obedience of faith and love and submission to Gods righteousness and going about to establish your own through the works of the law....

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Obedience to the word of God doesn't make you legalistic...
If your obedience is in in the flesh (legalism) its not true obedience its just hypocrisy. Its an outward religious show!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
I am one of the strongest ADVOCATES that SALVATION IS ONLY BY GRACE ALONE. What you seem to misunderstand, is that SALVATION and Sanctification are two different things. I was NOT talking about Salvation, but rather our Sactification of the body and our CHRISTIAN WALK.
I was not talking about salvation either. WE were talking about SIN.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
Do you believe the law was only given to Israel or was it for everybody?
The Mosaic Law was given to the Jews only....the Bible proves this. Gentile Christians were never and now not under the Mosaic Law...