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Besides this being heresy, it is bad hermeneutics. You do not make a doctrine out of one Scripture. Just like the Peter being the pope nonsense. One Scripture to base the entire hierarchical system.
Actually, I believe Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6
I think I will trust Jesus and the Bible over the spurious doctrines of the Catholic Church.
Besides the fact that all true churches believe the same things about how you are saved, our relationship to Christ. It is only the cults that believe you are saved by works. Which makes the Catholic Church the biggest cult in the world.
Actually, I believe Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6
I think I will trust Jesus and the Bible over the spurious doctrines of the Catholic Church.
Besides the fact that all true churches believe the same things about how you are saved, our relationship to Christ. It is only the cults that believe you are saved by works. Which makes the Catholic Church the biggest cult in the world.
[h=4]I'd like to ask a couple of questions for you non-Catholics.....Can there be more than one interpretation of the Bible?
I say No! The word "truth" is used several times in the New Testament. However, the plural version of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture. Therefore, there can only be one Truth. So how can there be over 30,000 plus non-Catholic Christian denominations all claiming to have the "Truth" (i.e., the correct interpretation of the Bible)? For that matter, aren't ALL non-Catholic Christians as individuals claiming "infallibility" when it comes to interpreting the Bible? We Catholics only believe in the infallibility of the Papacy as an office. Which is more believable - one office holding infallibility, or 400 million non-Catholic Christians who can't agree on the interpretation of Scripture all claiming "infallibility?" When it comes to interpreting Scripture, individual non-Catholic Christians claim the same infallibility as the Papacy. If one were to put two persons of the "same" non-Catholic Christian denomination (i.e., two Presybterians, two Lutherans, two Baptists, etc.) in separate rooms with a Bible and a notepad and ask them to write down their "interpretation" of the Bible, passage for passage, shouldn't they then produce the exact same interpretation? If guided by the Holy Spirit as Scripture states, the answer should be "Yes." But would that really happen? History has shown that the answer is "No." Now, in the case of Catholics, the Church which Christ founded and is with forever (Matthew 28:20) interprets the Bible, as guided by the Holy Spirit, (Mark 13:11) for the "sheep" (the faithful). The Church (not individuals) interpret Scripture. In Catholicism, Scripture is there for meditation, prayer and inspiration, not for individual interpretation to formulate doctrine or dogma.[/h][h=4]With that being said, you have to ask yourselves.....Is private interpretation of the Bible condoned in the Bible Itself? Again I say No, it is not! (2 Peter 1:20). Was individual interpretation of Scripture practiced by the early Christians or the Jews? Again, "NO" (Acts 8:29-35). The assertion that individuals can correctly interpret Scripture is false. Even the "founder" of Sola Scriptura (Martin Luther), near the end of his life, was afraid that "any milkmaid who could read" would found a new Christian denomination based on his or her "interpretation" of the Bible. Luther opened a "Pandora's Box" when he insisted that the Bible could be interpreted by individuals and that It is the sole authority of Christianity. Why do we have over 30,000 different non-Catholic Christian denominations? The reason is individuals' "different" interpretations of the Bible, thats why!!![/h]
Pax Christi
"From henceforth, all generations will call me Blessed." -Luke 1:48.
I say No! The word "truth" is used several times in the New Testament. However, the plural version of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture. Therefore, there can only be one Truth. So how can there be over 30,000 plus non-Catholic Christian denominations all claiming to have the "Truth" (i.e., the correct interpretation of the Bible)? For that matter, aren't ALL non-Catholic Christians as individuals claiming "infallibility" when it comes to interpreting the Bible? We Catholics only believe in the infallibility of the Papacy as an office. Which is more believable - one office holding infallibility, or 400 million non-Catholic Christians who can't agree on the interpretation of Scripture all claiming "infallibility?" When it comes to interpreting Scripture, individual non-Catholic Christians claim the same infallibility as the Papacy. If one were to put two persons of the "same" non-Catholic Christian denomination (i.e., two Presybterians, two Lutherans, two Baptists, etc.) in separate rooms with a Bible and a notepad and ask them to write down their "interpretation" of the Bible, passage for passage, shouldn't they then produce the exact same interpretation? If guided by the Holy Spirit as Scripture states, the answer should be "Yes." But would that really happen? History has shown that the answer is "No." Now, in the case of Catholics, the Church which Christ founded and is with forever (Matthew 28:20) interprets the Bible, as guided by the Holy Spirit, (Mark 13:11) for the "sheep" (the faithful). The Church (not individuals) interpret Scripture. In Catholicism, Scripture is there for meditation, prayer and inspiration, not for individual interpretation to formulate doctrine or dogma.[/h][h=4]With that being said, you have to ask yourselves.....Is private interpretation of the Bible condoned in the Bible Itself? Again I say No, it is not! (2 Peter 1:20). Was individual interpretation of Scripture practiced by the early Christians or the Jews? Again, "NO" (Acts 8:29-35). The assertion that individuals can correctly interpret Scripture is false. Even the "founder" of Sola Scriptura (Martin Luther), near the end of his life, was afraid that "any milkmaid who could read" would found a new Christian denomination based on his or her "interpretation" of the Bible. Luther opened a "Pandora's Box" when he insisted that the Bible could be interpreted by individuals and that It is the sole authority of Christianity. Why do we have over 30,000 different non-Catholic Christian denominations? The reason is individuals' "different" interpretations of the Bible, thats why!!![/h]
Pax Christi
"From henceforth, all generations will call me Blessed." -Luke 1:48.
Your first mistake is assuming that the RCC is THE CHURCH......second.....you will not find Roman Catholic Dogma being preached by Jesus, Paul, Peter and or any other N.T. writer......as far as who to believe.......the scriptures are clear, the Holy Spirit will ago-hodos (lead and guide) into all truth if you are HONEST with what the bible actually has to say......lastly...Paul taught Timothy, Titus and all pastor/teachers to teach the word of God to FAITHFUL men who in turn would teach to faithful men who in turn would teach to faithful men etc......It is not wrong to listen unto a man who would teach from the bible.....the prolem is taking at face value what they teach and or say.....go to the scriptures and search to be able to see the validity of what they teach or a lack thereof....Here are a few for you as applied unto RCC dogma....
1. Call no man FATHER on this earth
2. The contradictory commands to ABSTAIN from MEATS (on Fridays) and or MARRIAGE (for priests)
3. There is ONE (1) mediator between God and MEN<--the man Christ Jesus
Jesus + The POPE = 2
Jesus + Mary = 2
Jesus + anyone = More than ONE (1)
Etc................!
1. Call no man FATHER on this earth
2. The contradictory commands to ABSTAIN from MEATS (on Fridays) and or MARRIAGE (for priests)
3. There is ONE (1) mediator between God and MEN<--the man Christ Jesus
Jesus + The POPE = 2
Jesus + Mary = 2
Jesus + anyone = More than ONE (1)
Etc................!
]Spare me the anti RCC stuff, There is no anti RCC stuff per se! I am against putting the teachings of men above or equal to the teachings of Scripture regardless who does it. I don't care whether it is Russell's Whitlessness, Mormons, RCC, or Jim Jones Suicide Cults in British Guiana! They are all wrong and all in the same class!
Interpretations belong to God, NOT to men. Who is man to say this means that, or that means this? Woe to man, for interpretations belong to God, NOT to men.
We have hundreds of different denomination, why? Because men interpreted the Bible.
We have many versions of the Bible, why? Because men interpreted the Bible.
Why is there so much confusion? Because men interpreted the Bible
Who is the author of confusion? satan is.
Woe to this last days generation, which have altogether taken it upon themselves to interpret the Word of God, then teach others that it means as they themselves have interpreted it to mean. They will not escape the wrath of God during the hour of temptation.
There is ONLY ONE TRUTH. That Truth is the narrow and difficult path that only a very FEW will find. Those who interpret the Word of God, do not know the Truth, if they did, they would not interpret the Word of God.
^i^ Responding to OP
We have hundreds of different denomination, why? Because men interpreted the Bible.
We have many versions of the Bible, why? Because men interpreted the Bible.
Why is there so much confusion? Because men interpreted the Bible
Who is the author of confusion? satan is.
Woe to this last days generation, which have altogether taken it upon themselves to interpret the Word of God, then teach others that it means as they themselves have interpreted it to mean. They will not escape the wrath of God during the hour of temptation.
There is ONLY ONE TRUTH. That Truth is the narrow and difficult path that only a very FEW will find. Those who interpret the Word of God, do not know the Truth, if they did, they would not interpret the Word of God.
^i^ Responding to OP
D
1 Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1 Thes 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
1 Thes 4:5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
Theres the will of God there
E
I do agree with all of you, and I also have something more to say.
Listen, God spoke to someone among many people in the past during the time of Edam, Noah, Abram , Moses, and so on.
During the time of Jesus, God spoke to People through Jesus and then Jesus promised to Give His Holy Spirit and God also have to speak to us the same way in the past. At least one out of many, God spoke with him.
If we say that we have received the Holy Spirit then why many confusion and explanations do come across because Holy Spirit is with us and God Spoke to use throught Holy Spirit like He did in the past. So why many explanation and confusion come about?
Did we really receive the Holy Spirit?
Answer both questions please.
Listen, God spoke to someone among many people in the past during the time of Edam, Noah, Abram , Moses, and so on.
During the time of Jesus, God spoke to People through Jesus and then Jesus promised to Give His Holy Spirit and God also have to speak to us the same way in the past. At least one out of many, God spoke with him.
If we say that we have received the Holy Spirit then why many confusion and explanations do come across because Holy Spirit is with us and God Spoke to use throught Holy Spirit like He did in the past. So why many explanation and confusion come about?
Did we really receive the Holy Spirit?
Answer both questions please.
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this is a great question you have asked and i am sure you will get many answer too. That being said I will try to answer it as best as I can with God Help
.
The bible has ONE INTERPRETATION for scriptures but many applications of the scriptures.
The Interpretation of God 's word is fully as HE means it to be , it is in our limited understanding where we do error in what HE means. The Holy Spirit Leads us and Guides into all truth HIS truth not ours.
John 16:13 says:
[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide youinto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Truth of WHO Jesus is.T he Holy Spirit teaches us what is the Word for, and what is the purpose for HIM doing so? why does HE the Spirit of God have to teach us for? Is it so we know more? or is it so we know how to Worship HIM and receive instruction for righteous Living? The Bible says :2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, andis profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
It is when we Christian start thinking that knowing more for just having the knowledge without Application will not produce a change in our life.
we can know what the interpretation of the scriptures and still not apply it to our life; what good is it then? the Bible says to know and not do is sin. So what you are hearing is not a whole bunch of interpretation but more of opinions, misrepresentations, ignorance, and immaturity. Once you have the Spirit of God in your life He will help you because that is HIS job.
in Proper Bible interpretation and study of Gods word, we need to have a relationship with our Lord Jesus . After we have HIM them we can use some very helpful tools to study and come to the word of God appropriately.
Authorial Intent= what was the author saying? who was he saying it to? what was the time frame he said it in? How did they apply it in their day? and How do I apply in my life today.
and this is where you get what people think is many interpretations of Gods word when it's an application not the interpretation. The Pop up in the Head is not another interpretation but a application. and YES there can be and are wrong applications too. that is why we look at the total Bible to see if what is said in God word has been established and a Normative or Descriptive meaning; example: John 3:16 and over 15 other verses in the Bible tell us God loves so we know that God loves because it is seen in the bible are a Normal practice or normative. Descriptive is like Jesus changing water into wine only in John 2 no where else do we see Jesus making water into wine; meaning HIM do again in a different place or time. I hope this helps your question.
.The bible has ONE INTERPRETATION for scriptures but many applications of the scriptures.
The Interpretation of God 's word is fully as HE means it to be , it is in our limited understanding where we do error in what HE means. The Holy Spirit Leads us and Guides into all truth HIS truth not ours.
John 16:13 says:
[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide youinto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Truth of WHO Jesus is.T he Holy Spirit teaches us what is the Word for, and what is the purpose for HIM doing so? why does HE the Spirit of God have to teach us for? Is it so we know more? or is it so we know how to Worship HIM and receive instruction for righteous Living? The Bible says :2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, andis profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
It is when we Christian start thinking that knowing more for just having the knowledge without Application will not produce a change in our life.
we can know what the interpretation of the scriptures and still not apply it to our life; what good is it then? the Bible says to know and not do is sin. So what you are hearing is not a whole bunch of interpretation but more of opinions, misrepresentations, ignorance, and immaturity. Once you have the Spirit of God in your life He will help you because that is HIS job.
in Proper Bible interpretation and study of Gods word, we need to have a relationship with our Lord Jesus . After we have HIM them we can use some very helpful tools to study and come to the word of God appropriately.
Authorial Intent= what was the author saying? who was he saying it to? what was the time frame he said it in? How did they apply it in their day? and How do I apply in my life today.
and this is where you get what people think is many interpretations of Gods word when it's an application not the interpretation. The Pop up in the Head is not another interpretation but a application. and YES there can be and are wrong applications too. that is why we look at the total Bible to see if what is said in God word has been established and a Normative or Descriptive meaning; example: John 3:16 and over 15 other verses in the Bible tell us God loves so we know that God loves because it is seen in the bible are a Normal practice or normative. Descriptive is like Jesus changing water into wine only in John 2 no where else do we see Jesus making water into wine; meaning HIM do again in a different place or time. I hope this helps your question.
E
People In the past heard the word of God, they believe in Jesus and they baptised in water but they did not receive the Holy Spirit9Act 814-17, Acts 19:1-7. This support John 14:16-17, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His disciples only and not to everyone.
It is also supporting John 12:16-17 by saying that John Peter and Paul laid hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit because holy Spirit have not yet come on them Acts 8:16-18.
The bible also say that they have reject the Holy Spirit (acts 13:46) so is that the reason why we are confused. There is no one to baptized us in Holy Spirit like Paul peter and john did. Is that the reason why confusion and many interpretations come about?
It is also supporting John 12:16-17 by saying that John Peter and Paul laid hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit because holy Spirit have not yet come on them Acts 8:16-18.
The bible also say that they have reject the Holy Spirit (acts 13:46) so is that the reason why we are confused. There is no one to baptized us in Holy Spirit like Paul peter and john did. Is that the reason why confusion and many interpretations come about?
W
In John 14 , Jesus is saying that He will ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to anyone who loves and obeys Him.
I think there are so many interpretations because not many Christians obey Christ.
And not many Christians read the Bible for themselves, but instead learn only from men.
And because people love their sin, so they listen to teachers who tell them their sin is ok
And because people prefer to make up their own beliefs that aren't based on the Bible.
Jesus said many will seek to enter through the narrow gate, but they will not be able to
I think there are so many interpretations because not many Christians obey Christ.
And not many Christians read the Bible for themselves, but instead learn only from men.
And because people love their sin, so they listen to teachers who tell them their sin is ok
And because people prefer to make up their own beliefs that aren't based on the Bible.
Jesus said many will seek to enter through the narrow gate, but they will not be able to
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M
The critical issues are whether they existed as an established group or canon circulated together, and the realistic answer to that is no. Also what else was in circulation with them later declared uninspired or ( some cases actually heretical ) such as shepherd of hermas, epistle of barnabas and so on, which is certainly true, so the inspired canon was not yet decided, until which time the canon was not infallible.
Finally whether the average Christian community even had access to them in part or all (let alone the bible per person now) again the answer is no.
The first Christians cannot have been biblical in any sense you would understand it now, nor can they have believed in sola scriptura as understood by the reformation , indeed Paul notes the transmission of tradition by word of mouth and letter.
The final canon was a couple of centuries in the making, and even then the notion of biblical Christian urged to read scripture had to wait until late in the second millennium for the printing press, cost to come down, and wages to increase beyond subsistence.
Indeed, when the early fathers talk of the New Testament, they are talking about the new covenant of the Eucharist, it is only centuries later that the term drifts to referring to the written canon.
I notice almost nobody tackles the issue head on. Why has " bible alone" and discerning the spirit resulted in so many opposite views, that have resulted in endless fractures post reformation? It is fundamental to study that issue.
Finally whether the average Christian community even had access to them in part or all (let alone the bible per person now) again the answer is no.
The first Christians cannot have been biblical in any sense you would understand it now, nor can they have believed in sola scriptura as understood by the reformation , indeed Paul notes the transmission of tradition by word of mouth and letter.
The final canon was a couple of centuries in the making, and even then the notion of biblical Christian urged to read scripture had to wait until late in the second millennium for the printing press, cost to come down, and wages to increase beyond subsistence.
Indeed, when the early fathers talk of the New Testament, they are talking about the new covenant of the Eucharist, it is only centuries later that the term drifts to referring to the written canon.
I notice almost nobody tackles the issue head on. Why has " bible alone" and discerning the spirit resulted in so many opposite views, that have resulted in endless fractures post reformation? It is fundamental to study that issue.
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M
Again you slip into the forum comfort zone of attacking RCC: The thread is not about RCC nor an RCC problem.
Why is it that post reformation protestant factions seem to agree on nothing of interpretation of scripture leading to endless fractures. "bible alone" and "discerning of spirit" clearly has not worked for you. You yourself engaged in passionate battles about the underpinning and vocation leading from OSAS, leading to inflammatory threads. Your opposition here, is at least two other protestant factions and positions who are equally passionate and convinced that their view is correct and inspired.
You should be asking why. Has the bible let you down, or is it interpretations of it, and who is the authority that has final say? In many denominations a pastor, in non denominatials the person themselves.
This was one of the questions that drove me to RCC - that none of you seem to be able to agree, so how can it be universal truth?
It is important. Stop looking at RCC, and look at the OSAS threads and try to answer why disagreement?