SAVED BY WORKS

BradC · Mar 6, 2015

No one, who has been bought with a price and has been redeemed by that purchased price, can forfeit their redemption for that redemption is in Christ and they have been placed in Christ when they believe upon the Son of God and were saved by the grace of God. Because of God's eternal redemption that was obtained for us (Heb 9:12) through the blood of Christ, we are not our own (1 Cor 6:19,20). Their is not a single thing we can do to rid ourselves of what God has imputed by his grace to the redeemed sinner. We can't forfeit it, be decieved out of it, give it up for something else, deny or or curse our way out of it because we have been bought with a price and we are not our own.

Jason, you want so much to accuse believers of antinomianism because you have a terrible blind spot about the eternal reality of our salvation that we have in Christ and you want to be able to use the works that you do after salvation to justify condemnation against those who believe in God's eternal redemption that goes way beyond sin and any weakness of the flesh. We receive God's eternal salvation by grace through faith, it is maintained by God who is the author of it and gave it unto us as an imputed gift by grace through faith and we receive the reward of that salvation from God by grace through faith.

We can do nothing in our volition to forfeit anything that God imputes unto us in Christ. We have the freedom in our own volition to give into the flesh and to go out and live in terrible sin (and mark it down, it won't be good for us to do that) and God will never leave us or forsake us or stop his work in us, nor can we forfeit a single thing he has done for us or to us when we first believed upon his Son. God is not looking for me to confess my sin because I have already seen the error of my way, but he is looking for me to respond to his grace so that I might be restored in him.

Yes Jason, we have been eternally locked in Christ by grace and we can't unlock that position we have with him through our human volition. It can't happen, it won't happen and never has happened to anyone. Being locked in does not mean that I can do what ever I want with no consequences. Those consequences will most likely include God's heavy hand of chastisement but will not include being stripped of, losing or forfeiting the imputation of God's righteousness through his Son that was put on my account when I believed upon the work of Christ, nor will my name be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. But there will be a book of remembrance and also those that contain our works done in the flesh and in the Spirit that will suffer loss or receive reward.

Mitspa · Mar 6, 2015

Jason0047 said:

First the book is to all believers but Peter was the Apostle to the Jews, and Jews was in the world just like gentiles and the pollution of the world apart from Christ...

2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Clearly Peter is warning those who turn from faith "the way of righteousness" back to law "cursed children"

We know Peter was writing to the Jews! 2 Peter was clearly written to Jewish believers! the warning of 2 Peter is to those who turn from faith back to law!

savedsince14 · Mar 6, 2015

Mitspa said:

Thank you,Mitspa, for finally saying what you mean. This is why I say it the way I mean it when it comes to telling what I believe about salvation and Christianity. You kept posting scripture about not sinning and saying you lived a godly life making it sound like you didn't believe a saved person sinned after salvation and that you yourself didn't sin. I agree a saved person SHOULD'NT sin but we all do. I agree, our position in Christ(and in Christ alone) is sinless and righteous. But that position is in the soul, not in the flesh. And my apologies, I wasn't trying to put you with Jason0047.

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

No one is saved by works.....Scripture is crystal clear......... 'k, that's my two cents..........y'all get back to whatever it was y'all was doing

Jason0047 · Mar 6, 2015

Mitspa said:

Perhaps your right. Does it really matter if it was a Jew who accepted Christ and turned back or a Gentile that accepted Christ and turned back? All are one in Christ and there is no Jew or Gentile in Him. The result is still the same. A person can still turn away from Christ after receiving Him. God's plan was always to include the Gentiles in His plan to save man. The point is that believers can fall from God’s grace if that if is what they choose to do (Because of sin). However, if someone truly wants God’s grace, then there is nothing external that can ever separate them from the love of God, though. Only if they sin and refuse to repent will they separate themselves from the Lord. For God is good, just, and Holy; And He cannot willfully condone anyone in openly in doing evil against Him.

savedsince14 · Mar 6, 2015

Jason0047 said:

So, you believe that God don't take salvation away, but you give it back. Well,if God is almighty and knows all, why would He give you salvation if He knows you're going to give it back? For example, why would I give you $20.00 if I know you're going to give it back? Continue believing that you can lose salvation, or give it back all you want. Like I said before, this arguement(and that's basically what it is) will go on until the Lord comes back.Ther are always going to be some who believe OSAS and some who believe otherwise. God richly bless bless all.

WheresEnoch · Mar 6, 2015

What is required of you is to love Christ way more than yourself, your family, friends and especially your sin.
If you do not, than you are not worthy to be His disciple.

Can you love your dog and not feed him?
Can you love your wife and cheat on her?

In the same way, if you love Christ, you cannot continue in sin against Him or you are a liar.

(When I said "you" i was not referring to anyone in particular, just everyone in general)

Jason0047 · Mar 6, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Yes, this is true. We are not saved by works. But... works will be present in a believer's life because it is the proof that God lives within them (Who is the source of their salvation). For the Lord ultimately does the work within a believer.

WheresEnoch · Mar 6, 2015

WheresEnoch said:

John 14
“If you love me, obey my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.

Here Christ tell us what we do IF we love Him, not if we say a sinner's prayer.
We obey Him. And again, this is how we know IF we love Christ... We walk as He walked, not in sin but by obeying God in love:

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Cost of Discipleship
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

So if we think we can be saved with out loving God more than ourselves and our sin, we are fooling ourselves.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

IF we do not love Christ and do not follow Him, then we are not abiding in Him, and we will not produce fruit in keeping with repentance. Then this is our fate:

6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ 8 And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. 9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”

I wish we would start basing our theology on the teachings of Christ and of love

WheresEnoch · Mar 6, 2015

WheresEnoch said:

Because without true self-sacrificing love for God and people we have nothing at all, not even salvation. None of the Bible will be understood properly. How do we know IF we have love for Christ... We obey Him.

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

mailmandan · Mar 6, 2015

Mitspa said:

So who are "they" in verse 20? This is variously interpreted as either the false teachers or their victims, but the proximity to the false teachers in (2 Peter 2:19) makes them the most natural antecedent of "they". Furthermore, the false teachers are the main subject of the whole chapter. Peter did not mention that those who escaped the "pollutions of the world" through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, were "children of God," "born again" or "saved."

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ, does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. For epignosis to be of any spiritual value, there must be a heart submission to that knowledge. "A dog returns... A sow...goes back." In both cases the nature of the animal is not changed. The dog returns to the vomit and the sow returns to the mud because by nature it is still a dog and sow. They knew what was right and holy, but they deliberately chose to reject it. Just like in Hebrews 10:39, they had the knowledge of the truth (vs. 26) but chose to draw back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.

*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with *2 Peter 2:20 - they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But those who are truly born of God have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

"Corruption" is deeper than "pollutions/defilements" on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.

Mitspa · Mar 6, 2015

mailmandan said:

So who are "they" in verse 20? This is variously interpreted as either the false teachers or their victims, but the proximity to the false teachers in (2 Peter 2:19) makes them the most natural antecedent of "they". Furthermore, the false teachers are the main subject of the whole chapter. Peter did not mention that those who escaped the "pollutions of the world" through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, were "children of God," "born again" or "saved."

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ, does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. For epignosis to be of any spiritual value, there must be a heart submission to that knowledge. "A dog returns... A sow...goes back." In both cases the nature of the animal is not changed. The dog returns to the vomit and the sow returns to the mud because by nature it is still a dog and sow. They knew what was right and holy, but they deliberately chose to reject it. Just like in Hebrews 10:39, they had the knowledge of the truth (vs. 26) but chose to draw back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.

*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with *2 Peter 2:20 - they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But those who are truly born of God have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

"Corruption" is deeper than "pollutions/defilements" on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.

Yes ...they was in "the way of righteousness" they have turned from the way...they are "cursed"...children...meaning they are "children" of God...just like Paul told those believers who go back to the law, they are cursed by the law!

Peter is CLEARLY speaking to those who turn from grace and the righteousness of faith, back to the law "the strength of sin"

Mitspa · Mar 6, 2015

Jason0047 said:

No this warning is to all believers...that would turn from grace and the righteousness of faith, back to the law of Moses. Which goes back to my original point and correction of your use of the scriptures ...

mailmandan · Mar 6, 2015

Mitspa said:

Verse 21 - For it would have been better for them "not to have known the way of righteousness," than having known it, to "turn from the holy commandment delivered to them." This sounds like Hebrews 10:26, "they received the knowledge of the truth" (but there was no heart submission to the knowledge of the truth) so instead of believing to the saving of the soul, they drew back to perdition.

Saved2004 · Mar 7, 2015

Grace > Faith > Salvation > Works of the Holy Spirit through you > Justification

Jason0047 · Mar 7, 2015

savedsince14 said:

Because God has to honor His Word. If a person responds to the gospel and repents according to God's Word, then the Lord must be faithful to His Word and give that person life. If a person later chooses to reject God's promises within His Word, then that is on them and not God. It is their choice. We always have a free will choice to choose God or not to choose God. See, OSAS is just an offshoot of Calvinism. OSAS didn't' come about until Calvinism. Calvinism says free will does not exist at all. OSAS says free will does not exist after you believe in Jesus Christ.

Deuteronomy 30:19 essentially says he sets before the OT believer life and death and he desires them to choose life. This also applies to the NT believer, as well.

Jason0047 · Mar 7, 2015

Mitspa said:

I believe you are wrongfully seeing Legalism under every rock and tree. Not everything in the Bible is about that is bad relates to Legalism. The devil chose to be like the most high. His sin was on rebellion against God. Adam and Eve simply chose to disobey God's Commandment. Again, no Legalism there. What about the world that was destroyed by the global flood? Their thoughts were continually evil. Were they being Legalistic, too? I say thee nay. They were being evil and doing whatever they pleased and not following God's laws.

Jeff_56 · Mar 7, 2015

Jesus says it much more simply, as the spammer deceiver deceived one has been warned many times,

"if you listened to Moses, you would listen to Me".....

whoever doesn't listen to Moses, won't listen to Jesus. period. Jesus said this plainly.

why the spammer deceiver deceived one keeps repeatedly reposting the deceptions, and why it is allowed, is a mystery.

Jason0047 · Mar 7, 2015

Saved2004 said:

More like...

1. Confessing, and repenting of sin along with accepting Jesus as your Savior =
Grace, Faith, and Salvation (Without the deeds of the of the Law).
(Justification). Jesus Justifies the believer.

2. Works of God (i.e. Father, Son, Holy Spirit) within you & Continued Confession / Repentance =
Continued Grace, Continued Faith to His Commands, & a Continued Trust in God's free gift of Salvation.
(Sanctification) Jesus sanctifies the believer.

3. The Bodily Resurrection =
A new body is given to the believer who has:
Continued Grace, Continued Faith to His Commands, & a Continued Trust in God's free gift of Salvation.
(Glorification) Jesus glorifies the believer to be with him/her in His Kingdom for all eternity.

Jason0047 · Mar 7, 2015

mailmandan said:

Like Judas. He also drew back and become a son of perdition (or a devil). John 17 says all of the disciples were given to him by his Father and yet Jesus ended losing one of them (Which was Judas). For God cannot choose evil people to represent His good Kingdom. It would go against His good and Holy character. However, if a person later chooses to do evil and break the promises of God (that is within His Word), that is on them (And not God).

In other words, Judas wasn't going back to the Law of Moses when he started to do evil. Judas merely was just choosing to sin and do evil.

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