Is Christianity Monotheistic or has it become a Polytheistic religion?

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onwingsaseagles

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#161
#161
MahogonySnail said:
Referring to hearing God's voice subjectively I meant. If "God told me" the trinity was wrong, and I knew the bible taught the Trinity, I would reject that voice as not being from God. Obviously you failed that test in discernment.
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You are the one that have failed. You have failed to study the Bible for yourself, instead you just gobble up what your preacher pukes up for you. You are fed off your pastors puke instead of feeding yourself with God's word. Therefore if your pastor teaches a lie you will swear by it proclaiming it is taught in scripture...How sad.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#162
#162
MahogonySnail said:
The trinitarian concept of different parts making up a whole is also seen in creation, in the union between man and woman becoming "one flesh", in the "spirit, soul, body" nature of man, who is made in God's image, three parts, making up a whole.
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And how many claim that one human are 3 separate people? Why is this fallacy taught about God?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#163
Jan 8, 2009
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#163
Well I have a choice between my pastor's puke , based on extensive biblical studies at theological college, not to mention the personal experience of knowing God to go with it, and your puke, based on an amateur interpretation of the bible, and your subjective "God told me so" experiences.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#164
#164
MahogonySnail said:
Well I have a choice between my pastor's puke , based on extensive biblical studies at theological college, not to mention the personal experience of knowing God to go with it, and your puke, based on an amateur interpretation of the bible, and your subjective "God told me so" experiences.
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How about study for yourself? What a novel idea.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#165
Jan 8, 2009
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#165
How about study for yourself? What a novel idea.
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Of course I have studied for myself. And I couldn't fault the doctrine of the Trinity. Most people who have a problem with it it is because they don't understand it. The nature of God is one of the most fundamental things in the christian faith. But I won't appeal to my own experiences or "what God told me" on fundamental issues such as this.
 
olivetree32

olivetree32

Senior Member
#166
Jan 4, 2009
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#166
MahogonySnail said:
Of course I have studied for myself. And I couldn't fault the doctrine of the Trinity. Most people who have a problem with it it is because they don't understand it. The nature of God is one of the most fundamental things in the christian faith. But I won't appeal to my own experiences or "what God told me" on fundamental issues such as this.
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hi mahog, how ya doing. Well i was listening to a pastor today as i was comming home from work, great study by the way. but he started talking about his prevouse study on the trinity. I belive i was meant to hear it ok. and what he was saying was. if the trinity was not so, than why was jesus saying he was going to send a helper. Jesus was talking about that person yet to come. i don't have the verse, and i pray God brings it to remembrence. But if i remember i willl share the verse with you.
 
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dodolah

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#167
#167
you mean this:
John 15:26 -
But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#168
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#168
i found a few more here.. yes..

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
 
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NazariteNation

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#169
#169
I think that the most compelling evidence in support of the Trinity would have to be Jesus crying out on the cross "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me!"

In my mind nothing else needs to be said.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#170
#170
NazariteNation said:
I think that the most compelling evidence in support of the Trinity would have to be Jesus crying out on the cross "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me!"

In my mind nothing else needs to be said.
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Thanks for joining our discussion NN, Let me ask you this did God the Son die on the cross?
 
olivetree32

olivetree32

Senior Member
#171
Jan 4, 2009
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#171
dodolah said:
you mean this:
John 15:26 -
But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
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yes sir, i belive that was the one. thank you and God bless you always.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#172
#172
MahogonySnail said:
i found a few more here.. yes..

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
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You forgot verse 18, was this by accident or purposeful deception?
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jesus says I (Myself in the flesh) will not leave you comfortless, but I (my own Spirit) will come to you. Do you not believe the words of Christ Himself that the Holy Spirit is indeed His own Spirit.
 
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NazariteNation

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#173
#173
onwingsaseagles said:
Thanks for joining our discussion NN, Let me ask you this did God the Son die on the cross?
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I'll answer that with another question... *lol*

Scripture tells us that nothing is impossible with God. With that in mind, could be that God can be in two places at once?
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#174
#174
NazariteNation said:
I'll answer that with another question... *lol*

Scripture tells us that nothing is impossible with God. With that in mind, could be that God can be in two places at once?
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Yes God can be in two places at one time but what God cannot do is die. Therefore it was not God that died on the cross, but the man Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus said my God, my God, why has though forsaking me, because His divinity (Spirit) had to return to the Father in Heaven for His body to perish.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#175
Jan 8, 2009
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#175
You forgot verse 18, was this by accident or purposeful deception?
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jesus says I (Myself in the flesh) will not leave you comfortless, but I (my own Spirit) will come to you. Do you not believe the words of Christ Himself that the Holy Spirit is indeed His own Spirit.
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Yes, referring to Christ's SECOND COMING, or, Christ's ascension after 3 days.

Jesus was only ever to return the same way he left, in His glorified body coming from the clouds. The bible does not say Jesus would return to them as the Spirit.

This should be clear that the Spirit and Jesus are two different persons, because in verse 26 Jesus refers to the Spirit as "He shall teach you all things", not " I shall teach you all things".

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Jesus was going away to the Father,..and there's no indication he was coming back before the second coming, as the Spirit.

Joh 14:28 You have heard how I said to you, I go away and I am coming to you again. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I go to the Father, for My Father is greater than I.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#176
#176
MahogonySnail said:
i found a few more here.. yes..

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
Click to expand...
onwingsaseagles said:
You forgot verse 18, was this by accident or purposeful deception?
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jesus says I (Myself in the flesh) will not leave you comfortless, but I (my own Spirit) will come to you. Do you not believe the words of Christ Himself that the Holy Spirit is indeed His own Spirit.
Click to expand...
MahogonySnail said:
Yes, referring to Christ's SECOND COMING, or, Christ's ascension after 3 days.
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Now you are showing yourself for who you really are. Many trinitarians will try to explain away this verse in various ways, but none deny that the 2nd I is referring to the Holy Spirit. You have exposed yourself as someone that will do anything you can even destort and deny scripture to hold to your precious doctrinal assumptions.
 
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NazariteNation

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#177
#177
onwingsaseagles said:
Yes God can be in two places at one time but what God cannot do is die. Therefore it was not God that died on the cross, but the man Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus said my God, my God, why has though forsaking me, because His divinity (Spirit) had to return to the Father in Heaven for His body to perish.
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Hmmm.... was thinking your position was oneness, obviously not. *lol*

So you believe Jesus to be a man? I would agree, just not an ordinary man. I believe that Jesus was with God since the foundations of the world thus Christ ruling over the God's Earthly Kingdom as always God's plan. However, first mankind had to come to the realization as to why we need Christ in order to truly love and serve our King. God knew that ultimately a creature with the ability to choose would most likely explore all possible avenues. Thus God knew that man would rebel so He withheld the King from the earth, leaving man to his own devices until man finally understood and could appreciate Christ and His authority.

I also think that Jesus surrendered all supernatural ability when he took the form of a man and that He relied on the Holy Spirit for His wisdom and miraculous abilities just as any one of us can...
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#178
Jan 8, 2009
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#178
but none deny that the 2nd I is referring to the Holy Spirit.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. I used a bible commentary by Gill for this verse:

I will come to you; in a very short time, as he did; for on the third day he rose again from the dead, and appeared to them, which filled them with great joy. So among the Jews, disciples, and the world too, are represented as fatherless, when their doctors and wise men are removed by death. Says R. Aba, (x) and so sometimes others, concerning R. Simeon ben Jochai,

If we read further, Jesus said similar:


Joh 16:16 A little while and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father

Now when the Spirit came, they didn't actually see Jesus. You can't see the Spirit. So it must be referring to Christ's ascension, or perhaps second coming.


And if it couldn't be any plainer that the Spirit and Jesus are two persons, here Christ talks of the Spirit not as Himself, but as another who will glorify Christ, and will speak not of Himself but what He hears...

Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.
Now of course the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, but this doesn't mean the Spirit is Christ. Christ is in heaven waiting to return.

Jesus said He will come to them, not "I will come to you again as a Spirit". I take "another Comforter" literally, ..another.. meaning a different person..and as for Christ speaking of the Spirit as another person not as Himself in Spirit-form..yep.. makes sense to me..

Hey, at least I can comprehend plain english.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#179
#179
onwingsaseagles said:
Yes God can be in two places at one time but what God cannot do is die. Therefore it was not God that died on the cross, but the man Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus said my God, my God, why has though forsaking me, because His divinity (Spirit) had to return to the Father in Heaven for His body to perish.
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NazariteNation said:
Hmmm.... was thinking your position was oneness, obviously not. *lol*

So you believe Jesus to be a man? I would agree, just not an ordinary man. I believe that Jesus was with God since the foundations of the world thus Christ ruling over the God's Earthly Kingdom as always God's plan. However, first mankind had to come to the realization as to why we need Christ in order to truly love and serve our King. God knew that ultimately a creature with the ability to choose would most likely explore all possible avenues. Thus God knew that man would rebel so He withheld the King from the earth, leaving man to his own devices until man finally understood and could appreciate Christ and His authority.

I also think that Jesus surrendered all supernatural ability when he took the form of a man and that He relied on the Holy Spirit for His wisdom and miraculous abilities just as any one of us can...
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Actually I am Oneness., and I thought you were trinitarian, obviously not...lol. However I think we are closer to each others belief than we think. I believe Jesus existed as God the Father before incarnation and His during His life He was just as much a man as you and I. I do believe that He was dependant on the Holy Spirit. However I believe that The Holy spirit was the Spirit of Christ. On the cross His Spirit (His God) went back to the Father, therefore He cried out my God, my God why have you forsaken me. His body died and His soul went to paradise or Abraham's bosom to preach to the O.T. Saints.

Although I see you are not trinitarian I do believe Jesus was God manifest as a man, fully God the Father, and fully man the Son. However I do not think that God dies on the Cross but the man Jesus Christ died and rose again.

I will say this I enjoy your input NN, it is much more refreshing than the trinitarians continued insistance that there doctrine is some how sacred and untouchable.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#180
#180
MahogonySnail said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I used a bible commentary by Gill for this verse:

I will come to you; in a very short time, as he did; for on the third day he rose again from the dead, and appeared to them, which filled them with great joy. So among the Jews, disciples, and the world too, are represented as fatherless, when their doctors and wise men are removed by death. Says R. Aba, (x) and so sometimes others, concerning R. Simeon ben Jochai,

If we read further, Jesus said similar:


Joh 16:16 A little while and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father

Now when the Spirit came, they didn't actually see Jesus. You can't see the Spirit. So it must be referring to Christ's ascension, or perhaps second coming.


And if it couldn't be any plainer that the Spirit and Jesus are two persons, here Christ talks of the Spirit not as Himself, but as another who will glorify Christ, and will speak not of Himself but what He hears...

Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.
Now of course the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, but this doesn't mean the Spirit is Christ. Christ is in heaven waiting to return.

Jesus said He will come to them, not "I will come to you again as a Spirit". I take "another Comforter" literally, ..another.. meaning a different person..and as for Christ speaking of the Spirit as another person not as Himself in Spirit-form..yep.. makes sense to me..

Hey, at least I can comprehend plain english.
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You are carnal who should I expect you to understand spiritual things?
 
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