SAVED BY WORKS

[Jason0047]

The righteousness of God without the law is applied unto all who genuinely exercise biblical, saving faith......

Does Biblical saving faith include repentance and confession of sin in their walk? Does Biblical saving faith involve upholding the moral law by loving God and loving your neighbor? For I know the Scriptures essentially say that he that hates his brother is a murderer; And we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. In other words, do you believe you can hate your brother (either in words or deeds), then die (hating your brother), and still be saved?

Oh, and please take note that I do not believe in Works Salvationism, either.

 

[dcontroversal]

Does Biblical saving faith include repentance and confession of sin in their walk? Does Biblical saving faith involve upholding the moral law by loving God and loving your neighbor? For I know the Scriptures essentially say that he that hates his brother is a murderer; And we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. In other words, do you believe you can hate your brother (either in words or deeds), then die (hating your brother), and still be saved?

Oh, and please take note that I do not believe in Works Salvationism, either.

If you believe you can lose your salvation you believe in works for salvation no matter how you slice it Jason....

Again you totally fail to understand that it is the SPIRIT that is born again, DOES NOT SIN (1st John 3:9) and is eternally JUSTIFIED (rendered INNOCENT) before GOD, SEALED by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE (pre-payment) of our inheritance and is positionally SANCTIFIED in Christ FOREVER......

It is bound in a FALLEN BODY that is Corrupt, FAILS every day, is not subject unto the law/word of God, neither in deed can be and OCCASIONALLY WINS and SINS......

IF we (JOHN INCLUDED) say that WE have no sin we are DECIEVED and the TRUTH is not IN US..........He is faithful and just to forgive us if we confess...NO where does it say we lose salvation if and when we sin!

 

[Jason0047]

If you believe you can lose your salvation you believe in works for salvation no matter how you slice it Jason....

Again you totally fail to understand that it is the SPIRIT that is born again, DOES NOT SIN (1st John 3:9) and is eternally JUSTIFIED (rendered INNOCENT) before GOD, SEALED by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE (pre-payment) of our inheritance and is positionally SANCTIFIED in Christ FOREVER......

It is bound in a FALLEN BODY that is Corrupt, FAILS every day, is not subject unto the law/word of God, neither in deed can be and OCCASIONALLY WINS and SINS......

IF we (JOHN INCLUDED) say that WE have no sin we are DECIEVED and the TRUTH is not IN US..........He is faithful and just to forgive us if we confess...NO where does it say we lose salvation if and when we sin!

Well, the whole "We sin in our flesh but yet we don't sin spiritually because our sin is not charged to our account because of Jesus" type belief is not taught in the Scriptures. For when you quote 1 John 3:9: You also have to look at the surrounding text or verses in the same epistle. 1 John 2:1 says we are not to sin, but if we do sin, we have an advocate named Jesus Christ that we can go to. Why go to Jesus if you are already forgiven in him? 1 John 3:7 says, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." Then 1 John 3:8 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." So we know according to the context right here that he that sins is of the devil. How do we know for sure? 1 John 3:10 confirms it. It says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." In other words, 1 John 3:6, 9 are talking about how the true born again believer does not live in habitual sin as a way of life. This is because they are changed spiritually.

As for 1 John 1:8-9 in regards to salvation: Well, 1 John 1:6-7 says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." In other words, we see a contrast here. If one walks in darkness (or sin), and says they have fellowship with Him (Jesus), they lie and do not the truth. But if they walk in the light (as he is in the light), then the blood cleanses them of all sin. But you believe all your sins are cleansed by a belief alone type Theology, though. Yet, 1 John 1:7 says otherwise. You have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light. "Walking in the Light" is in reference to walking in His commands. For the next chapter makes this point clear (See 1 John 2:3-6). Besides, 1 John 1:9 says... IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to FORGIVE us our sins. So it goes to reason that if you are forgiven by confessing your sins, then not doing so would mean you not be forgiven. This fact is confirmed for us in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14). The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee because he cried out to God to have mercy on him being a sinner. Yet, the Pharisee was proud and thought he was just God's child and did not need to confess or repent (Like many OSAS proponents), and he thought he was better than the Tax Collector.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, the whole "We sin in our flesh but yet we don't sin spiritually because our sin is not charged to our account because of Jesus" type belief is not taught in the Scriptures. For when you quote 1 John 3:9: You also have to look at the surrounding text or verses in the same epistle. 1 John 2:1 says we are not to sin, but if we do sin, we have an advocate named Jesus Christ that we can go to. Why go to Jesus if you are already forgiven in him? 1 John 3:7 says, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." Then 1 John 3:8 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." So we know according to the context right here that he that sins is of the devil. How do we know for sure? 1 John 3:10 confirms it. It says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." In other words, 1 John 3:6, 9 are talking about how the true born again believer does not live in habitual sin as a way of life. This is because they are changed spiritually.

As for 1 John 1:8-9 in regards to salvation: Well, 1 John 1:6-7 says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." In other words, we see a contrast here. If one walks in darkness (or sin), and says they have fellowship with Him (Jesus), they lie and do not the truth. But if they walk in the light (as he is in the light), then the blood cleanses them of all sin. But you believe all your sins are cleansed by a belief alone type Theology, though. Yet, 1 John 1:7 says otherwise. You have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light. "Walking in the Light" is in reference to walking in His commands. For the next chapter makes this point clear (See 1 John 2:3-6). Besides, 1 John 1:9 says... IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to FORGIVE us our sins. So it goes to reason that if you are forgiven by confessing your sins, then not doing so would mean you not be forgiven. This fact is confirmed for us in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14). The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee because he cried out to God to have mercy on him being a sinner. Yet, the Pharisee was proud and thought he was just God's child and did not need to confess or repent (Like many OSAS proponents), and he thought he was better than the Tax Collector.

No offence, but your salvation lite heresy wont allow you to see the truth.....your right...any sin I commit is not charged to my spirit as it has already been charged to the account of Christ before the world began.....too bad you are blind to this truth......!

 

[Stephen63]

If you believe you can lose your salvation you believe in works for salvation no matter how you slice it Jason....

You mean we can't possibly gain salvation by grace thru faith & then lose it by sinning (works)?

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened (saved), who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

​

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

​

2 Peter 2:20-22​

ESV
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

​

Ezekiel 18:24-26​

ESV
But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.

​

Hebrews 10:26-28​

ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
​

​

1 John 2:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

​

Romans 11:22 ESV
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

​

Romans 2:6-8​

ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

​

Revelation 2:4-7​

ESV
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

​

Hebrews 6:1-6 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

​

John 3:36​

ESV
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.​

​

Matthew 24:13​

ESV
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

​

Revelation 22:19​

ESV
And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

​

2 Peter 2:21​

ESV
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

​

Hebrews 3:7-15​

ESV
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” ...

​

Luke 6:46​

ESV
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

​

Matthew 16:27​

ESV
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
​

​

Revelation 3:15-16​

ESV
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

​

Jude 1:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

​

Ephesians 2:10​

ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
​

​

John 15:2 ESV
Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

That's a lot of pages to tear outta your Bible to get rid of OSAS evidence. (and this wuz just a quick internet search)

​

 

[dcontroversal]

You mean we can't possibly gain salvation by grace thru faith & then lose it by sinning (works)?

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened (saved), who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

​

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

​

2 Peter 2:20-22​

ESV
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

​

Ezekiel 18:24-26​

ESV
But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.

​

Hebrews 10:26-28​

ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
​

​

1 John 2:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

​

Romans 11:22 ESV
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

​

Romans 2:6-8​

ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

​

Revelation 2:4-7​

ESV
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

​

Hebrews 6:1-6 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

​

John 3:36​

ESV
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.​

​

Matthew 24:13​

ESV
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

​

Revelation 22:19​

ESV
And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

​

2 Peter 2:21​

ESV
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

​

Hebrews 3:7-15​

ESV
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” ...

​

Luke 6:46​

ESV
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

​

Matthew 16:27​

ESV
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
​

​

Revelation 3:15-16​

ESV
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

​

Jude 1:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

​

Ephesians 2:10​

ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
​

​

John 15:2 ESV
Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

That's a lot of pages to tear outta your Bible to get rid of OSAS evidence. (and this wuz just a quick internet search)

​

Context alleviates any doubt about the security of the believer......nice try though.......

SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SEALED, SANCTIFIED for ever BY faith is what the bible teaches and the cut an paste you have done does not alleviate the truth.......

He hath perfected for ever those who wre in Christ
He hath sanctified forever those who are in Christ
The righteousness of God is imputed unto all who genuinely believe
The Spirit that has been born of God does not SIN
In the Son's hand, In the Father's hand and SEALED with the spirit of promise
Saved to the UTTERMOST
Christ EVER lives to intercede for a true believer
Christ is the end of the LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS unto all who believe

God's definition of eternal/everlasting<----eternal/everlasting

Your definition of eternal/everlasting<---temporary

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken , i just read your bio . Please find yourself a good place to worship under an Ordained Pastor as I fear you still have much of Roman catholic errors in your veins . It can take years to extract popery from your soul. This is no attack on you. - 21 years ago i was an arminian premill dispensational zionist Rapture Cult KJVonly Baptist - That is many heresies ! .........so i know how things are looking just now. There are folk here who have been where you are now , pointing you in the right direction because we care Ken xx

Just because I was in the Catholic church for 5 years does not mean this teaching comes form them.
You make the same mistake that Dconn makes about me, and I will tell you like I told him. The Catholic church that I was in and took the RCIA classes taught very little scripture teaching. They taught mainly their false church history of their church existed since Peter and Paul. Yet the church was not even started tell the 2nd century.
My understanding and learning comes directly by the Holy Spirit as I pray to God to lead me in my teachings to understand the truth in His word and to keep me away from distractions in my studies. He always answers and takes me right to the passage to answer my question.

Dcon tries to say I have a false spirit leading me, but a false spirit will deny God and His Holy Word, not direct somebody in understanding it. The bible itself even says do not let mans systems of teaching guide you in His knowledge, we are to let the Holy Spirit do this in us.

I do not agree with all the teachings of the Catholic church, but some things they teach are in the bible rather you or a few others want to admit it or not. I have come across some churches from every other denomination that teach just as badly as the Catholic church by adding or taking away from God's word. I am non-denominational because this movement in the church is going back to using all of His word for understanding, and not picking and choosing which wants they like which all other denominations have been guilty of.
If you actually have a good church that teaches 100% from the bible that is good, but even the bible says to test all things with the Word to see if it matches up. Salvation as a physical possession of ours is not biblical, as what the bible actually says and shows from the Greek to the English is that we have mental assurance of it right now.
And multiple scriptures in the NT state you can not live a sinful/unclean/flesh/darkness lifestyle and still have salvation.

 

[Stephen63]

Context alleviates any doubt about the security of the believer......nice try though.......

SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SEALED, SANCTIFIED for ever BY faith is what the bible teaches and the cut an paste you have done does not alleviate the truth.......

He hath perfected for ever those who wre in Christ
He hath sanctified forever those who are in Christ
The righteousness of God is imputed unto all who genuinely believe
The Spirit that has been born of God does not SIN
In the Son's hand, In the Father's hand and SEALED with the spirit of promise
Saved to the UTTERMOST
Christ EVER lives to intercede for a true believer
Christ is the end of the LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS unto all who believe

God's definition of eternal/everlasting<----eternal/everlasting

Your definition of eternal/everlasting<---temporary

Yep, folks, you read it first here..... He totally ignored all those scriptures I found in less than a minute on the internet to believe OSAS...... Now why should I bother to answer him back? A total waste of time......

 

[dcontroversal]

Yep, folks, you read it first here..... He totally ignored all those scriptures I found in less than a minute on the internet to believe OSAS...... Now why should I bother to answer him back? A total waste of time......

If they actually dealt with obtaining salvation you would have a leg to stand on, but you like a few others here apply scripture to salvation that has absolutely nothing to do with salvation......so really the waste of time is attempting to show you the error of your ways dude!

 

[kennethcadwell]

No offence, but your salvation lite heresy wont allow you to see the truth.....your right...any sin I commit is not charged to my spirit as it has already been charged to the account of Christ before the world began.....too bad you are blind to this truth......!

Yes it is charged to the account of Christ if you confess that sin for forgiveness, if you don't the bible says you are walking an impure lifestyle.

Apostle Paul even warned the Apostle Timothy that he can become impure do to sins again.
And Jesus told those who professed Him as Lord that continued to live a sinful lifestyle, I never knew you who practices lawlessness. No matter how you slice it you can not live a sinful lifestyle and walk in the Spirit both, it just can not be done. For the fruits of the Spirit are contrary to the works of the flesh, you can not give into sin everyday and say you love Him both. If this is the lifestyle you live without repentance and confession for future sins then your lifestyle is impure according to the bible.
John says in his epistle to believers that he wrote to so that we would not sin, but if we do sin again by confessing that sin our Lord being just will forgive us and cleanse us of this unrighteousness. If however you continue every single day recommitting that same sin/s then the bible shows it was not a true repentance, because if it were there would be fruits produced worthy of that repentance. Meaning your actions would show that you truly repented by turning away from those sins and committing them any longer.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi Jason0047 and Dcontroversal,

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I am not one who believes in the once saved always saved interpretation. I believe that believers must continue having faith otherwise they break the connection with God's grace. One would also have to ask the question as to why there is so much warning to believers to not live according to the sinful nature. Regarding this, John 15 states the following:

"“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

So, in the Scripture above, first notice that Jesus is the true vine and the branches represent believers in Christ. If any branch does not remain in him that person cannot bear fruit and as a result the Father cuts off every branch in Jesus that bears no fruit. They are like a brance that is eventually thrown into the fire to be burned. This demonstrates that it is continual faith in Christ that secures our salvation and not just once saved always saved. Here is another example:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
(James 5:18)

First it is important to notice that the Scripture is speaking regarding believers (brothers and sisters). Consequently, any of those brothers or sisters who wander away from the truth, which would infer that they are back living in the sinful nature, are in a wandered state and are accumulating sin and therefore on their way to death. It goes on to say that if another believer warns that person who has wandered away and they turn back, then the sins that they would have been accumulating in that state would be covered and that person will be saved from death. The point is that, if a believer turns back to the sinful nature and wilfully lives according to that old life style, they break their connection with God's grace. There are just too many examples in Scripture that demonstrate that our forgiveness of sin and eternal life is dependant upon continuing in faith. God's grace is the wall socket and faith is the plug. Just as we must plug into the wall socket in order to get power, so we must also have faith to stay connected to God's grace. If we go back to living according to the sinful nature, then we have unplugged the connection and need to plug (repent) back in again.

One would also have to ask the question as to why the rebukes in the letters to the seven churches, which represents all churches throughout the entire church period, if once saved always saved?

 

[Momo10]

So I'm wondering about the 4th commandment to Honor the Sabbath and Keep it Holy. Is it no longer required to keep? It was for the nation of Israel only? And being called the LORD'S DAY, it is the first day of the week, which then is Sunday? Because it does say that the Sabbath is Saturday. AND if someone could explain Luke 23:54 with this question. Thank you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes it is charged to the account of Christ if you confess that sin for forgiveness, if you don't the bible says you are walking an impure lifestyle.

Apostle Paul even warned the Apostle Timothy that he can become impure do to sins again.
And Jesus told those who professed Him as Lord that continued to live a sinful lifestyle, I never knew you who practices lawlessness. No matter how you slice it you can not live a sinful lifestyle and walk in the Spirit both, it just can not be done. For the fruits of the Spirit are contrary to the works of the flesh, you can not give into sin everyday and say you love Him both. If this is the lifestyle you live without repentance and confession for future sins then your lifestyle is impure according to the bible.
John says in his epistle to believers that he wrote to so that we would not sin, but if we do sin again by confessing that sin our Lord being just will forgive us and cleanse us of this unrighteousness. If however you continue every single day recommitting that same sin/s then the bible shows it was not a true repentance, because if it were there would be fruits produced worthy of that repentance. Meaning your actions would show that you truly repented by turning away from those sins and committing them any longer.

This just shows your inability to understand sonship and fellowship.....I would explain it, but you would reject it, twist what I say and quote a few out of context scriptures......

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yep, folks, you read it first here..... He totally ignored all those scriptures I found in less than a minute on the internet to believe OSAS...... Now why should I bother to answer him back? A total waste of time......

Yes those scriptures do deal with salvation even though a few will constantly ignore them, when they clearly say what they mean. And those are just a few that deal with salvation, as I have posted many times on here up to 25 scriptures at once that deal with salvation and with them I posted another 15 that says salvation comes at the end of our faith and not the beginning. Yet they keep getting denied and those who do not like those scripture return with calling us teaching falsely when they come directly from the bible.
Dcon has been called out on Hebrews 10 many of time by a lot of people, yet he still denies it has to do with salvation. When it clearly says those who willfully sin after receiving Christ will face judgment and the lake of fire, and it shows in the following scripture that judgment will be before God. Those who stand before God, and not the Lord at the mercy seat will face the judgment of the second death. He told me one day that a person can live a sinful lifestyle, die and still have salvation. If that person never repented they did not get eternal life.

Jude's epistle is all about salvation, and he gives all the examples that would lead one away from the Lord to obtain salvation. He ends his epistle in one of the last verses saying we must keep ourselves in His grace.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Jason0047 and Dcontroversal,

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I am not one who believes in the once saved always saved interpretation. I believe that believers must continue having faith otherwise they break the connection with God's grace. One would also have to ask the question as to why there is so much warning to believers to not live according to the sinful nature. Regarding this, John 15 states the following:

"“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

So, in the Scripture above, first notice that Jesus is the true vine and the branches represent believers in Christ. If any branch does not remain in him that person cannot bear fruit and as a result the Father cuts off every branch in Jesus that bears no fruit. They are like a brance that is eventually thrown into the fire to be burned. This demonstrates that it is continual faith in Christ that secures our salvation and not just once saved always saved. Here is another example:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
(James 5:18)

First it is important to notice that the Scripture is speaking regarding believers (brothers and sisters). Consequently, any of those brothers or sisters who wander away from the truth, which would infer that they are back living in the sinful nature, are in a wandered state and are accumulating sin and therefore on their way to death. It goes on to say that if another believer warns that person who has wandered away and they turn back, then the sins that they would have been accumulating in that state would be covered and that person will be saved from death. The point is that, if a believer turns back to the sinful nature and wilfully lives according to that old life style, they break their connection with God's grace. There are just too many examples in Scripture that demonstrate that our forgiveness of sin and eternal life is dependant upon continuing in faith. God's grace is the wall socket and faith is the plug. Just as we must plug into the wall socket in order to get power, so we must also have faith to stay connected to God's grace. If we go back to living according to the sinful nature, then we have unplugged the connection and need to plug (repent) back in again.

One would also have to ask the question as to why the rebukes in the letters to the seven churches, which represents all churches throughout the entire church period, if once saved always saved?

The letters to the churches in Revelation are warnings that they could lose their authority as a true N.T. church and have nothing at all to do with salvation.....

The bible makes it clear that Jesus saves to the UTTERMOST, Completes the work he started, Continually MAKES intercession for the believer, justifies, sanctifies and seals forever.....it is a once for all act and the VERB tenses often rejected by people who believe into works for salvation proves a once for all act in the past with present continuing results.........

 

[kennethcadwell]

So I'm wondering about the 4th commandment to Honor the Sabbath and Keep it Holy. Is it no longer required to keep? It was for the nation of Israel only? And being called the LORD'S DAY, it is the first day of the week, which then is Sunday? Because it does say that the Sabbath is Saturday. AND if someone could explain Luke 23:54 with this question. Thank you.

The 4th commandment was not just for the nation of Israel, and the Lord Jesus showed examples of how the Sabbath is to be observed now. And the Apostle Paul said to not let others judge you about keeping it, as he also showed in Romans 13 that walking in love (fruit of the Spirit) will have one uphold all of the Lords commandments and teachings.
Hebrews 4 shows us how the Sabbath is observed now, as our Sabbath rest is in the Lord when we give ourselves over to Him to obey Him in our walk in the Spirit.
None of the commandments were done away with as some like to say, as just how they apply is what changed.
The bible shows that only contained within the written form with ordinances is how they were done away with, but the moral aspect of them is written in our hearts and our minds.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And the rest that I provided?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes those scriptures do deal with salvation even though a few will constantly ignore them, when they clearly say what they mean. And those are just a few that deal with salvation, as I have posted many times on here up to 25 scriptures at once that deal with salvation and with them I posted another 15 that says salvation comes at the end of our faith and not the beginning. Yet they keep getting denied and those who do not like those scripture return with calling us teaching falsely when they come directly from the bible.
Dcon has been called out on Hebrews 10 many of time by a lot of people, yet he still denies it has to do with salvation. When it clearly says those who willfully sin after receiving Christ will face judgment and the lake of fire, and it shows in the following scripture that judgment will be before God. Those who stand before God, and not the Lord at the mercy seat will face the judgment of the second death. He told me one day that a person can live a sinful lifestyle, die and still have salvation. If that person never repented they did not get eternal life.

Jude's epistle is all about salvation, and he gives all the examples that would lead one away from the Lord to obtain salvation. He ends his epistle in one of the last verses saying we must keep ourselves in His grace.

More fluff and lies from you as pointed out by EG earlier.....I can just as easily say that many have pointed out to you that HEBREWS 10 is not dealing with salvation, but rather forsaking the assembling together as the manner of some is.....but like usual, you will trust into your Catholic/Pagan doctrine of works, deny the truth and receive the lies of the false religions you have been a part of....so.....ride your false gospel all the way to the pit Kenneth...soon you will find out, albeit too late!

 

[Momo10]

I'm curious about Luke because it is in the New Testament.

 

[RickyZ]

Let's look at the OS part of OSAS (forget the AS part for the moment).

What exactly constitutes works? Are they not acts you perform out of your own sovereign will? Is not accepting Christ an act you perform out of your own sovereign will? So, staying saved aside for the moment, is not getting saved in the first place, a work?

Jesus says you have to believe in Him before you can receive His grace. So is not getting saved based upon a single act of works?