SAVED BY WORKS

[dcontroversal]

Once again a misuse of understanding Hebrews 6, as the scripture is not saying it is impossible for all who fall away to come back in repentance to receive salvation.

The context is stating it is impossible for those who by their own understanding refuse to repent because they feel there is no need and they put the Lord to an open shame because they will never turn from their ways. Their repentance is not a true repentance, as only a true repentance will show a change in one's life to turn away from sin.

Nowhere in the bible does it say a person who falls away can not come back in repentance.
So no we are not scared of that passage because we do not misuse it to say one who falls away can not repent and come back to the Lord.

Kenneth...What you say means nothing to me and probably 80% of the people on here...you twist, reject, hang verses, deny words, context, Greek definitions of words, you lie about what people post, you use third person pointed statements, you refuse to acknowledge any truth that contradicts your views, you cut and paste and regurgitate the men that you follow and at the end of the day your theology is nothing more than a sad joke......!

You trust yourself, your works and your own abilities to gain, keep and maintain a salvation that you do not have by your own words and testimony as compared to the bible....don't speak to me anymore as your words carry no weight....!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

No where does it say that we can come back from it...by your own twist you deny the word...!

And no where does it imply what you have said..in the bolded above...that is your twist to jive your own theology....!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Matthew 26:26-28 ESV
26Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28for this is my blood of the[SUP]c[/SUP] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth, please get yourself to a Reformed Protestant church asap. You are inventing your own peculiar religion and ignoring the advice of others . You have one foot in Rome

No thank you as I have checked into some Protestant churches and some of the falsehoods they teach as well.
For they have a tendency of taking away some scriptures just like all other denominations. I am just fine in a non-denominational setting that goes by the full scriptures in the bible, and not a picking and choosing of what they want to go by. You do know Protestant branched off the Catholic church, they are called reformers because they started their own church away from the Catholic church.
My affliation has nothing to do with the Catholic church, and its teachings does not come from there.
My teachings come from the Holy Spirit and the pure word of God that He directs me in.

I ignore the advice of others if their advice does not line up totally with scripture, anybody can take a scripture here or there and make it fit an unbiblical doctrine. You must take all scriptures on the subject matter at hand in study to get the full meaning, which is what the non-denominational movement. The protestant church in past history is just about as guilty as the Catholic church for murdering people, and trying to say it was in Christ's name.

 

[simplytruth]

The bible says that if you sin you place yourself back under the law because you have been draw away by your own lusts.
QUOTE]

So your understanding of the bible is Kenneth:

You are not under the law as long as you perfectly obey the law?

you are not under the law as long as you are abiding in Christ....you cannot sin if you are in Christ...however if you are drawn away from Christ by your own lust and enticed...when the lust is conceived in you it brings sin and sin brings forth death...
[h=1]James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That's OT Kenneth and out of context with the New Covenant of Christ's blood......nice try but we are under the New Covenant, one sacrifice for all sins, the blood of Christ saves sinners.......

Wow you post OT scriptures in your posting, but when somebody else does you state out of context.
You can not have it both ways, and by the way it is a Psalm, which is a prayer from David to God about how he has fallen away to restore him again to salvation. That same standard still applies under the new covenant, as not all of the OT was done away with. You will not find one scripture that eliminates the whole OT, just the laws.
The prophetic books, and the psalms still very much apply for understanding and learning. Even Jesus, Paul, and others referred back to some of the OT writings showing some of them are very much still valid. Repenting is all throughout the NT, and very much a part of the new covenant, which is what David is doing in that Psalm; repenting.

 

[pem]

No thank you as I have checked into some Protestant churches and some of the falsehoods they teach as well.
For they have a tendency of taking away some scriptures just like all other denominations. I am just fine in a non-denominational setting that goes by the full scriptures in the bible, and not a picking and choosing of what they want to go by. You do know Protestant branched off the Catholic church, they are called reformers because they started their own church away from the Catholic church.
My affliation has nothing to do with the Catholic church, and its teachings does not come from there.
My teachings come from the Holy Spirit and the pure word of God that He directs me in.

I ignore the advice of others if their advice does not line up totally with scripture, anybody can take a scripture here or there and make it fit an unbiblical doctrine. You must take all scriptures on the subject matter at hand in study to get the full meaning, which is what the non-denominational movement. The protestant church in past history is just about as guilty as the Catholic church for murdering people, and trying to say it was in Christ's name.

Even Satan believes the Bible Kenneth - and trembles (James 2:19 kjv) . So when you say " i go by the full scriptures in the Bible " - you are in BAD company ! Thats why we have creeds to protect us from folk like you (and Satan) . Read this and get back to me Westminster Confession of Faith

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth...What you say means nothing to me and probably 80% of the people on here...you twist, reject, hang verses, deny words, context, Greek definitions of words, you lie about what people post, you use third person pointed statements, you refuse to acknowledge any truth that contradicts your views, you cut and paste and regurgitate the men that you follow and at the end of the day your theology is nothing more than a sad joke......!

You trust yourself, your works and your own abilities to gain, keep and maintain a salvation that you do not have by your own words and testimony as compared to the bible....don't speak to me anymore as your words carry no weight....!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

No where does it say that we can come back from it...by your own twist you deny the word...!

And no where does it imply what you have said..in the bolded above...that is your twist to jive your own theology....!

Once again you are wrong with your 80% quote as I have just as many people if not more that agree with what I have said that you have that agree with what you have said.
So you still trying to show through your fruits of the flesh by trying to demean, belittle, and even give condemning remarks toward others is sad. And for those who agree with this standard you carry on with grieves the Holy Spirit. For the way you speak to others is completely not of the Spirit, as we are called to love, do good, help, and edify others.

You are the one who does the twisting or watering down of scriptures, and then blame others just because they do not agree with you. I have shown you more than once, and it was not twisting it, for it clearly shows what it says. As it says they meaning the people keep themselves from coming back to the Lord, nowhere in that scripture does it say God will not allow them to come back in repentance.
Those who do not show a true repentance by no change in their life toward sins put the Lord to an open shame, because they reject the truth of what repentance means. Repentance means a change of mind toward the sinful lifestyle we once lived in that had us enmity to God, and in that change of mind will lead one to turn away and stop walking in that way. As the bible clearly says you can not continue to walk how you previously walked and still get salvation.

It says there is no condemnation for those who walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh.
Walking in the Spirit upholds the commandments, it does not transgress His commandments. Walking in the flesh transgresses His commandments.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Jeremiah 17:5-8 KJV
5Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

6For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

7Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

8For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

Hebrew 10:12-18 ESV
12But when Christ[SUP]b[/SUP] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16“This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Wow you post OT scriptures in your posting, but when somebody else does you state out of context.
You can not have it both ways, and by the way it is a Psalm, which is a prayer from David to God about how he has fallen away to restore him again to salvation. That same standard still applies under the new covenant, as not all of the OT was done away with. You will not find one scripture that eliminates the whole OT, just the laws.
The prophetic books, and the psalms still very much apply for understanding and learning. Even Jesus, Paul, and others referred back to some of the OT writings showing some of them are very much still valid. Repenting is all throughout the NT, and very much a part of the new covenant, which is what David is doing in that Psalm; repenting.

My quote is pertinent to the discussion we are having and still applies, your quote from Psalms does not support your position, is out of context, and irrelevant. You have a blindfold on your heart and CAN NOT SEE what Christ has done for all our sins Kenny......

Psalm 51:12-14

12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from blood guiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

 

[simplytruth]

Kenneth...What you say means nothing to me and probably 80% of the people on here...you twist, reject, hang verses, deny words, context, Greek definitions of words, you lie about what people post, you use third person pointed statements, you refuse to acknowledge any truth that contradicts your views, you cut and paste and regurgitate the men that you follow and at the end of the day your theology is nothing more than a sad joke......!

You trust yourself, your works and your own abilities to gain, keep and maintain a salvation that you do not have by your own words and testimony as compared to the bible....don't speak to me anymore as your words carry no weight....!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

No where does it say that we can come back from it...by your own twist you deny the word...!

And no where does it imply what you have said..in the bolded above...that is your twist to jive your own theology....!

well that scripture certainly refutes the belief that future sins are already forgiven....and also OSAS....for those who don't know the word...we have access to the throne of grace in time of need...those who confess and repent of their sins do not go before the throne of grace.....but believe all future sins are already forgiven...

No where does it say that we can come back from it...by your own twist you deny the word...!

come back from what??? scripture does not say you went anywhere...what scripture is saying is you cannot repent and be baptised as a new convert again as you have already used that sacrifice for the remission of sins that are past...it cannot be redone...but we have access to the throne of grace...if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive...
[h=1]Hebrews 4:15-16King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

well that scripture certainly refutes the belief that future sins are already forgiven....and also OSAS....for those who don't know the word...we have access to the throne of grace in time of need...those who confess and repent of their sins do not go before the throne of grace.....but believe all future sins are already forgiven...

come back from what??? scripture does not say you went anywhere...what scripture is saying is you cannot repent and be baptised as a new convert again as you have already used that sacrifice for the remission of sins that are past...it cannot be redone...but we have access to the throne of grace...if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive...
Hebrews 4:15-16King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Is that you brother Newbirth?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Even Satan believes the Bible Kenneth - and trembles (James 2:19 kjv) . So when you say " i go by the full scriptures in the Bible " - you are in BAD company ! Thats why we have creeds to protect us from folk like you (and Satan) . Read this and get back to me Westminster Confession of Faith

Yes satan and his angels do believe in the bible and God, however they are not obedient to Him.
They walk in disobedience, and the bible says this same standard applies to us to. We can not say Jesus is our Lord and continue to be disobedient to His teaching and commands.
Apostle Paul once again says in Romans 13 that walking in love will uphold all of His commands, and Apostle John says in 1 John 2-4 that those who keep His commandments abide in Christ and Christ abides in him. He then says those who do not keep His commands do not have Christ.

That is not bad company to go by all the scriptures, because satan and his angels do not go by them.
They may know them but they do not follow them, as born again believers will do. Funny thing is you and Dcon keep comparing me to the Catholic church, and the problem with that is they believe the church is over the scriptures. I do not believe that way, as I believe the bible takes presidence over all as it is His word.

You do not need creeds made by man, all you need is the Holy Spirit, His guidance, and His Holy Word..................

 

[kennethcadwell]

My quote is pertinent to the discussion we are having and still applies, your quote from Psalms does not support your position, is out of context, and irrelevant. You have a blindfold on your heart and CAN NOT SEE what Christ has done for all our sins Kenny......

Yes my scripture does still apply and pertains to the situation, because David fell back in sin and is repenting to the Lord to forgive him and restore His salvation on him. This same prayer of repentance is still valid in the new covenant, as Apostle John shows in 1 John 1:9. John shows if we do sin again we are to confess that sin to be forgiven and cleansed of it by the Lords blood.
Even the Lord Jesus gives us the model prayer that shows confessing forgiveness for transgressions, and in that prayer He makes it evident that if you turn and do not forgive others then you will not be forgiven. No forgiveness, no salvation.

 

[pem]

Yes satan and his angels do believe in the bible and God, however they are not obedient to Him.
They walk in disobedience, and the bible says this same standard applies to us to. We can not say Jesus is our Lord and continue to be disobedient to His teaching and commands.
Apostle Paul once again says in Romans 13 that walking in love will uphold all of His commands, and Apostle John says in 1 John 2-4 that those who keep His commandments abide in Christ and Christ abides in him. He then says those who do not keep His commands do not have Christ.

That is not bad company to go by all the scriptures, because satan and his angels do not go by them.
They may know them but they do not follow them, as born again believers will do. Funny thing is you and Dcon keep comparing me to the Catholic church, and the problem with that is they believe the church is over the scriptures. I do not believe that way, as I believe the bible takes presidence over all as it is His word.

You do not need creeds made by man, all you need is the Holy Spirit, His guidance, and His Holy Word..................

No no no dear Kenneth . You believe YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible

 

[kennethcadwell]

No no no dear Kenneth . You believe YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible

No to what ???

You believe satan and his angels follow the scriptures?
If that is what you are being taught I would suggest to stop listening to the one who is teaching you, because the bible says they walk in darkness. The bible shows walking in darkness, is a sinful lifestyle, and walking in light that we are called to do is abstaining from sin. If you believe a person can be disobedient and still have salvation then you are being falsely taught what is not in the bible. The bible stresses obedience to the faith, and it says what I just showed that if we have a question about His ways all we have to do is go in prayer to God and He will give us that revelation in His word by way of the Holy Spirit. We do not have to seek outside sources for understanding unless God personally through His Holy Spirit guides us there.
Apostle Paul even says do not place man's wisdom over the His wisdom that we receive through the Holy Spirit.....

 

[michael56]

Look at all of Paul's epistles and even the epistles from John, as they take and show you all the fruits of the Spirit that will be evident in a born again believers life. Then tell me which one of those fruits would have a person sin? Not one of them. We can not longer transgress the Mosaic laws, but a person can still transgress God's moral laws.
This is why we are told confession for sins is still needed in a believers life by John, because we can and will still sin again. The difference is do you stay in that sin when you backslide, or do you feel the Godly sorrow leading you to repent of it and therefore confess it and stop doing it to receive remission from the Lord.

Apostle Paul constantly shows what the works of the flesh are, and states that anybody who continues doing them will not inherit eternal life. And the works of the flesh are all transgressions of the law, and the works of the Spirit that he mentions that we are told to walk in are the opposite and will not transgress God's moral laws that are in our heart and mind. Paul show in Romans 13 that the greatest fruit of the Spirit which is love will uphold all of commandments.
Apostle John says if you do not keep His commands then Christ does not abide in you, and if Christ does not abide in a person their is no salvation.

'''The bible says that if you sin you place yourself back under the law because you have been draw away by your own lusts.'''

It doesn't matter how you try and disguise it Kenneth. You believe if a person does not nigh on perfectly obey the law they are back under the law.

Wisdom is always justified by its inconsistencies

 

[Mitspa]

'''The bible says that if you sin you place yourself back under the law because you have been draw away by your own lusts.'''

It doesn't matter how you try and disguise it Kenneth. You believe if a person does not nigh on perfectly obey the law they are back under the law.

Wisdom is always justified by its inconsistencies

1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Yes my scripture does still apply and pertains to the situation, because David fell back in sin and is repenting to the Lord to forgive him and restore His salvation on him. This same prayer of repentance is still valid in the new covenant, as Apostle John shows in 1 John 1:9. John shows if we do sin again we are to confess that sin to be forgiven and cleansed of it by the Lords blood.
Even the Lord Jesus gives us the model prayer that shows confessing forgiveness for transgressions, and in that prayer He makes it evident that if you turn and do not forgive others then you will not be forgiven. No forgiveness, no salvation.

Well actually it's a song and not a prayer for starters
and If you had read this you would realize your error.......

2 Samuel :12,13
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
So your whole carnal theory that David needed to have his salvation restored is rubbish and the verse you quoted in Psalms "does not support your position, is out of context, and irrelevant" . Now you have no excuse,.... so we shouldn't see that verse quoted in error by you anymore right?

2 Samuel 12
Gives the story as to why the words were spoken by David and recorded in a song,(Psalm 51) .He was hoping God would be merciful and spare his infant son........

2 Samuel 12:21-23
21Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.


Your failure to properly see the context of verses in scripture explains a lot.......

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Yes my scripture does still apply and pertains to the situation, because David fell back in sin and is repenting to the Lord to forgive him and restore His salvation on him. This same prayer of repentance is still valid in the new covenant, as Apostle John shows in 1 John 1:9. John shows if we do sin again we are to confess that sin to be forgiven and cleansed of it by the Lords blood.
Even the Lord Jesus gives us the model prayer that shows confessing forgiveness for transgressions, and in that prayer He makes it evident that if you turn and do not forgive others then you will not be forgiven. No forgiveness, no salvation.

1 Timothy 1:5-7 ESV
5The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well actually it's a song and not a prayer for starters
and If you had read this you would realize your error.......

2 Samuel :12,13
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
So your whole carnal theory that David needed to have his salvation restored is rubbish and the verse you quoted in Psalms "does not support your position, is out of context, and irrelevant" . Now you have no excuse,.... so we shouldn't see that verse quoted in error by you anymore right?

2 Samuel 12
Gives the story as to why the words were spoken by David and recorded in a song,(Psalm 51) .He was hoping God would be merciful and spare his infant son........

2 Samuel 12:21-23
21Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.


Your failure to properly see the context of verses in scripture explains a lot.......

It is both a song and a prayer, and David constantly sang and danced to the Lord in prayer, songs, music, and so on...
If you are trying to say that Davids songs of prayer are not valid, then you go against how God said he is a man after His own heart by doing these things. David did everything for the love of God, and when he did mess up in adultery and murder he repented of it to receive God's forgiveness. That same standard still applies under the new covenant, we are to do everything in the love for God and if we do backslide and sin we are to confess it to the Lord to be forgiven and cleansed of it by His blood.

 

[pem]

It is both a song and a prayer, and David constantly sang and danced to the Lord in prayer, songs, music, and so on...
If you are trying to say that Davids songs of prayer are not valid, then you go against how God said he is a man after His own heart by doing these things. David did everything for the love of God, and when he did mess up in adultery and murder he repented of it to receive God's forgiveness. That same standard still applies under the new covenant, we are to do everything in the love for God and if we do backslide and sin we are to confess it to the Lord to be forgiven and cleansed of it by His blood.

But you deny OSAS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!which means you are in UNBELIEF and make Christ a liar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!