Oh No, It's The M-Word! (Modesty... Yet Again!!!)

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#1
Hello Folks!

I know everyone is going to groan... "NOT AGAIN!!!", but I wanted to talk about modesty of a different kind.

We've talked at length about modesty in appearance and manner of clothing... But what about modesty when it comes to things like money, family background, knowledge in a certain field, or intellect?

I'm thinking of things such as... The kid who is from the richest family in town (and there's nothing wrong with that), BUT, this person also never fails to let everyone know it. Or what about the person who is always showing off how much money they have, whether it's through what they buy or what they say: "Yeah, I had $10,000 worth of extras put on this car, but it was nothing..." when the person they're talking to is wondering how they're going to pay an unexpected bill for $50.

How about the person who is always Smarter Than Everyone Else (or thinks they are) and never misses an opportunity (or rather, never fails to create an opportunity) in which they can show off exactly how much they know about something, including Biblical knowledge?

Or what about the person who, because they have a talent in a certain area, looks down on others for not having the same kind of knowledge or experience? I'm thinking in particular of a couple of posters several years ago who wrote a few posts in which they were looking down their noses at people who are "uneducated" and have such "limited" vocabularies.

Now, I'm guessing they were talking about the English vocabulary. And for someone who knows a lot of words, that's incredible! But what about someone who knows "only" 5,000 words... in four different languages? (That "someone" would NOT be me, by the way, but rather, one of my siblings... Who learned all this long before he got his college degrees and whom I'm also sure knows just as many English words as these guys thought they did.)

Now, I AM NOT SAYING at all that it's wrong to have money, a pedigree, or a brain that's chock-full of information. But what I am saying is... I personally think it's wrong to act as if everyone needs to know it, and, most of all, I believe it's wrong to look down at other people who don't have the things they might be especially blessed in.

I once had a first date (and this would be another reason why I call myself the Queen of First Dates) with someone who was, without a doubt, highly intelligent, whether it came to mechanics or nuclear subs or studying the Bible in its original languages. But he spent pretty much the entire time telling me just how smart he was... and by the end of an hour (have I ever mentioned that I have a fairly high pain threshold), I was ready to be around... Well... a lot less smart-ness, if you will. In that entire time, I think he might have asked maybe one question about me, and it was so mundane that I can't even remember what he asked me. And it was quite obvious that he saw me as being... someone below his level. He automatically took on the role of Teacher and assumed me to be the Student (who needed to be schooled in how vastly talented he was, apparently.)

In contrast, I'm thinking of a friend of mine who always struggled in school, but can fix most anything. His workshop is filled with everything from computer printers to lawnmowers to sinks. When I compliment his amazing ability, he credits growing up spending weekends with his dad rebuilding things, and simply shrugs, saying, "I just like figuring out how things work."

How can we show modesty when it comes to what we have, whether it be in our wallets or in our heads? I'm always amazed by some people who show off how much money they have (or think they have--anyone can have a high credit limit), and then complain about how many people come to them or use them for money.

As for "superior intellect", I will never forget a conversation I had with a top psychiatrist in my home state. He was telling me about all the highly-educated people he sees in his practice who are suffering from severe depression, disorders, and breakdowns, in contrast to others with what we often see as "handicaps", but who move past things much more quickly.

"How is it," he said, "that God seems to give some of us a few extra brain cells... and yet we somehow manage to mess it all up?"

I also think of a story I read about a woman who was married to a man who was an expert in many things. He had several advanced degrees and was looked up to as one of the most respected people in his field. Whenever they attended social or professional events, his wife was upset because her husband was often silent around groups of people who all talked about how much they knew. She berated him for "not trying to show off" what he knew as well.

He told her with a shrug, "I already know what I know. I'm trying to listen to other people so that I can find out what THEY know, and maybe learn something new for myself as well!"

This is my kind of person!

Sure... someone may have a LOT of blessings... But how can they choose to be genuinely modest about them?

I guess to me, a modest person is someone who uses what they have responsibly, helps others when they can, and is very humble about it. They don't look down at other people and consider themselves to be "just one of the crowd." And even if they do have a lot in life or a lot of knowledge, they never forget that they're still human, just like everyone else, and treat others with high esteem as well.

How about the rest of you? What are your examples, definitions, and opinions of modesty in other areas of life besides just appearance?
 
L

LiJo

Guest
#2
"I once had a first date (and this would be another reason why I call myself the Queen of First Dates) with someone who was, without a doubt, highly intelligent, whether it came to mechanics or nuclear subs or studying the Bible in its original languages. But he spent pretty much the entire time telling me just how smart he was... and by the end of an hour (have I ever mentioned that I have a fairly high pain threshold), I was ready to be around... Well... a lot less smart-ness, if you will. In that entire time, I think he might have asked maybe one question about me, and it was so mundane that I can't even remember what he asked me. And it was quite obvious that he saw me as being... someone below his level. He automatically took on the role of Teacher and assumed me to be the Student (who needed to be schooled in how vastly talented he was, apparently.)"



^^^
Sounds like you dated my Ex husband!! lol
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,592
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#3
To the OP:

To me, this would be addressing humility in the Christian sense, not exactly modesty. But, that's just me.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,903
9,638
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#4
To the OP:

To me, this would be addressing humility in the Christian sense, not exactly modesty. But, that's just me.
yeah, modesty and humility are two separate things.. i agree with you, p_..
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#5
To the OP:

To me, this would be addressing humility in the Christian sense, not exactly modesty. But, that's just me.
That's great! For you and Blue Ladybug then, what would be your definition of humility and how to live out that quality?

Also, what would you say is the difference between humility and modesty?
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#6
Kim, imo modesty is a fine word to use in this sense, since it carries the meaning
of being free from conceit or vanity. :)

maybe if we remember we don't have a thing that hasn't been given us by God...
whether it be money or intelligence or athletic ability or anything else,
it would help us in this department? ;)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,242
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#7
PsychoM! Believe it or not, I was thinking of you recently. So glad to see you're still here!

And as always, very wise. ;)

(Makes me want to change my own username to something like "PsychoticWisdom"... but that's speaking about only me, of course!) :D
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#8
PsychoM! Believe it or not, I was thinking of you recently. So glad to see you're still here!

And as always, very wise. ;)

(Makes me want to change my own username to something like "PsychoticWisdom"... but that's speaking about only me, of course!) :D
lol....your user name is so perfect...shouldn't change a thing! :)

just a further thought about this...why has God given us certain talents, gifts, and abilities?
so we can use them to help one another, of course!

our pastor said a few weeks ago that humans are all about 'project-me'. :(
but the Lord Jesus didn't come to help us with project-me, He came to save us from it.
:rolleyes:

when we really know that God in Christ has given us absolutely everything we need,
we become free to look around and see what we can do for...give to other people.


it's so simple, even i can understand it! haha

love,
ellie

 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,903
9,638
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#9
That's great! For you and Blue Ladybug then, what would be your definition of humility and how to live out that quality?

Also, what would you say is the difference between humility and modesty?
I think modesty is in short commodity these days. A person can be filthy rich, yet live like a poor person, and never mention their wealth. In other words, they don't flaunt it to others. Modesty can be seen in how we talk, how we act, how we relate to others, etc.. Modesty is living on a fixed budget, even if you're able to spend as much as you want without concern of running out of money. Modesty is doing things in moderation, like accepting a sandwich even though you're offered an entire buffet of food. Modesty is having hardly anything, and being content with it nonetheless. For example, in my house I have very little furniture, only a bed, night table, computer table/chair, and a bookcase. I'm content with that because it's all I need. My family tells me I need more furniture and I say no i dont because I have all I need. :)

Humility is being able to accept criticism without getting angry, being able to accept a compliment without being like, "why thank you, I know what I did was awesome." Once again, not bragging about their accomplishments. For example, I am always humbled when someone on here tells me what an inspiration I am to others, because I don't see myself as an inspiring person. So it always surprises me when someone tells me that. :) Humility is acting like Jesus did when he healed people and said, "don't tell anyone what I did." He didn't want recognition for his miracles. Humility is acting like a lowly pauper instead of a filthy rich millionaire who flaunts their wealth to others less fortunate.


*this made sense when I was typing it..hopefully it makes sense to whoever reads it..lol.. :eek:
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,592
6,794
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#10
That's great! For you and Blue Ladybug then, what would be your definition of humility and how to live out that quality?

Also, what would you say is the difference between humility and modesty?
Just my thoughts here, so.............to me, modesty speaks of "self." How we present ourselves to the world. Humility speaks to how we interact with others. Putting their needs above ours. Willing to not be No. 1, rather to be joyous when others are recognized for their accomplishments.

The rich kid you spoke of certainly lacks humility, for he is projecting pride rather than humility. Same with the smart kid, who is always making sure everyone knows how much smarter he is than they are. While modesty may play a role in his actions, surely humility is completely void.

Anyway, I suppose the two are closely related in some instances.........but the connotation can differ.

[h=3]Modesty Definition[/h] dictionary.search.yahoo.com

n. noun


  • 1. The state or quality of being moderate in the estimation of one's own abilities, accomplishments, or value.
  • 2. Reserve or propriety in speech, dress, or behavior. Modesty prevented her from wearing that dress.
  • 3. The state of being unostentatious or moderate in size, quantity, or range. the modesty of the room's furnishings.

Where then does modesty fit into the Christian ethic?
[h=2]Paul on Modesty: 1 Timothy 2:8-10[/h]“I desire…that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
Christian women should concern themselves with modesty because the Bible does. This text is a primary example.


[h=3]6 Marks of Biblical Modesty: How God Brings Sexy Back[/h]



  • God and humility — The meaning of humility in the Bible
    Many people have the wrong idea about God, the Bible and humility, or being humble. They think being humble means groveling in front of others or thinking we're no good and others are better.

    That’'s not what the Bible says. God says when you are humble, you are free from pride and arrogance. You know that in your flesh you are inadequate, yet you also know who you are in Christ.

    You don't need to defend yourself when you understand what the Bible says about humility, for you know who you are in Christ. You can be a peacemaker without needing to fight for your rights. You can walk humbly in the power of the Holy Spirit, not in your own strength.

    Godly humility is being comfortable with who you are in the Lord and therefore putting others first. The picture of humility in the Bible is one of a strong person who loves others, not someone who is a wimp.
    Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. (Philippians 2:3)


    Hope this helps explain my thinking.............still, I like the OP...... :)
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
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#11
modest

Houghton Mifflin

adj.adjective


  • Having or showing a moderate estimation of one's own abilities, accomplishments, or value.
    was too modest to talk about his success.
  • Having or proceeding from a disinclination to call attention to oneself; retiring or diffident.
    a quiet, modest demeanor.
  • Observing conventional proprieties in speech, behavior, or dress, especially in the avoidance of arousing sexual interest.
  • Free from showiness or ostentation; unpretentious.
    a house with modest furnishings.
  • Moderate or limited in size, quantity, or range; not extreme.
    a modest price; a newspaper with a modest circulation.



    Yep - totally valid use of modest here. seoulsearch is using the first and fourth definitions. Modest dress, which has been the subject of many a fun discussion here of late, corresponds to definition #3.


    OK - carry on.








oops - didn't see that someone already provided definition.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,242
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#12
That's ok, Cat.

The REAL issue here, of course, is that I got your approval, right?

Right?

*crickets*

P.S. For those who are in tune with my use of the word "modesty", thank you for providing clear definitions as an enhancement. And for those of you who had slightly different interpretations, thank you as well, because a little contrast often leads to a better sense of understanding. :)

As long as the contrasts don't turn into verbal fistfights, it's all good! :D
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
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#13
Four thoughts:

1. I'm reminded of some people at work who actually work (unlike some who stand around talking or playing on their phones on the clock) but they let everyone know they are working. Or they gripe to other people about "I'm working so hard and they're just standing there chatting."

2. "Modesty is the art of drawing attention to whatever it is you're being humble about." I didn't make that quote but I sure have remembered it. Also, "I'm a really humble person... and I'm proud of my humility, let me tell ya!"

3. About seoulsearch's friend who kept his mouth shut because he was listening - that's probably how he learned most of what he knew. You wouldn't believe the things I know that I never took a class for, but I picked it up from observing.

4. "Don't be so loud about what you know or what you can do. Being underestimated can come in really handy - you surprise people all the time because they underestimated you (and the looks on their faces are priceless!) Also they don't ask you to do stuff nearly as often if they don't know you can do it."
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,702
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#14
I was wrong, I have a fifth thought. People advertise what they have, what they know, what they can do, all because of pride. Basically because they want others to think more highly of them. It's amazing how much junk you can stop doing when you stop caring what other people think of you. Just saying... :cool:
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,174
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#15
That's great! For you and Blue Ladybug then, what would be your definition of humility and how to live out that quality?

Also, what would you say is the difference between humility and modesty?
I know you asked the Little Sitting Elephant and the Blue Lady Bug, but the Blond would say humility is keeping things in check on the inside while modesty is keeping things in check on the outside.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,242
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#16
Thank you, Lynx!

WHILE I GREATLY APPRECIATE THE DEBATE OVER THE DEFINITIONS OF WHAT HUMILITY VS. MODESTY IS, THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD. (Thank you though to the people who DO understand the meaning of "modesty" that I'm using and what I'm trying to get at.) Another thread that discusses Humility Vs. Modesty would be a great idea, for whoever wants to write it.

Rather, the point is to talk about how modesty, or humility, to some, can be practiced in our everyday living in other areas besides manner of dressing.

If you would be so kind as to include examples of those practicing modesty in their own lives, non-examples in which this could be improved upon, or stories about your our own experiences in to how to practice these principles, it would be greatly appreciated.

And better yet, they would actually apply to the topic of the thread. Thanks!

I have to say that one of the most frustrating things in Singles is when people will say... "There aren't any interesting threads... This place is boring..."

And then when some do try to make threads (I'm not saying myself in particular, but several who've tried to spice it up here lately), the actual topic is completely ignored because there are so many hangups on things such as, "Well, what I think you should have worded it this way," or "Is that really an example? Let's discuss all the ways in which it fails all my standards as a true example...", or, worst of all, "Who even cares about this anyway?" when someone has taken their time and heart to write a thread.

I understand the need for clarity and I do appreciate constructive feedback.

But how are we ever going to maintain an atmosphere of positive, meaningful discussion when there are many arguments about the nitty gritty instead of talking about the actual topic?

I also find it discouraging because I also find that these types of debates over details keep many others from posting, and I would really like to hear what those people have to say.
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
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#17
Thank you, Lynx!

WHILE I GREATLY APPRECIATE THE DEBATE OVER THE DEFINITIONS OF WHAT HUMILITY VS. MODESTY IS, THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD. (Thank you though to the people who DO understand the meaning of "modesty" that I'm using and what I'm trying to get at.) Another thread that discusses Humility Vs. Modesty would be a great idea, for whoever wants to write it.

Rather, the point is to talk about how modesty, or humility, to some, can be practiced in our everyday living in other areas besides manner of dressing.

If you would be so kind as to include examples of those practicing modesty in their own lives, non-examples in which this could be improved upon, or stories about your our own experiences in to how to practice these principles, it would be greatly appreciated.

And better yet, they would actually apply to the topic of the thread. Thanks!

I have to say that one of the most frustrating things in Singles is when people will say... "There aren't any interesting threads... This place is boring..."

And then when some do try to make threads (I'm not saying myself in particular, but several who've tried to spice it up here lately), the actual topic is completely ignored because there are so many hangups on things such as, "Well, what I think you should have worded it this way," or "Is that really an example? Let's discuss all the ways in which it fails all my standards as a true example...", or, worst of all, "Who even cares about this anyway?" when someone has taken their time and heart to write a thread.

I understand the need for clarity and I do appreciate constructive feedback.

But how are we ever going to maintain an atmosphere of positive, meaningful discussion when there are many arguments about the nitty gritty instead of talking about the actual topic?

I also find it discouraging because I also find that these types of debates over details keep many others from posting, and I would really like to hear what those people have to say.
so you are saying that after 17 posts about clarifying which definition of modesty we are using for the purpose of discussion, we can now begin the discussion? :D
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,242
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#18
so you are saying that after 17 posts about clarifying which definition of modesty we are using for the purpose of discussion, we can now begin the discussion? :D
EXACTLY.

I'm always grateful for the people here who understand "SeoulSpeak". :)
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,702
8,941
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#19
That's the thing though. If I detail the ways I am modest or humble, is that modest to list them? Hmm...
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,702
8,941
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#20
Eh, who cares? I'll probably never meet any of you anyway.

When I park at church I park in the back. This is because I can walk further, more easily, than some of our elders can. Also if it rains I can run to my car where many cannot run.

That's not modesty, that's being considerate. The modesty part is I don't mention to anyone that I do it. It's just something I do.

Also I don't go telling other young people at church they should do the same. I think they should, but I can't find a way to suggest it to them without sounding like I'm bragging on me. That's another thing about modesty - sometimes you have to not do something because of how it would appear, regardless of your intent.