This is actually a great discussion; it made me stop and think about what is sin. The obvious answer is, it’s missing the mark. Then I think about what Y-shua said, the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it. Then I thought about when Samuel said to Israel, when they chose Saul as king, he will not sin against G-d and not pray for Israel. My point, there are many sins that as I have grown over the past 20+ years I just don’t do any more. But when I think about the depth of sin, sin in my thoughts, sin in my will, and sin in my behavior, I realize I am so far from being without sin that after all these years I am still a sinner in need of a savior. I would love to never have a bad thought about something, I mean just to think this day sucks is grumbling, or to say “yes I’ll do …” and don’t is sin. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. to even say tomorrow I am going to the store is sin according to the Word of G-d, for the Bible tells us we are to say if the Lord willing I will go here or go there. When you really break down sin, it’s so much more than what we see with our eyes, only when we get to heaven will we be sinless and it makes me that much grateful for the cross and the sinless spotless lamb of G-d. That’s why Y-shua is our intercessor, if we didn’t need one once we were saved G-d wouldn’t have made Him our intercessor. I think G-d know what He is doing. I hate sinning and yes I do sin less but I am not sinless.
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Well if I said I had no sin I would be a liar. I don't love and trust God 100% of the time with 100% of my heart strength and soul. But I know where I fall short my sin has already been dealt with at Calvary. I have yet to meet a sinless person...and anyone can say anything in a chat room...it proves nothing.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1Jn 1:8)
Think about it.
My spirit is born again and sinless, a new creation. It has been removed as far as the east is from the west. This is what we strive to live from.
Not complicated once you get it
Not complicated once you get it
DiscipleDave said
Here is the Truth. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, all their PAST sins are forgiven them, Jesus paid for them, He took the stripes to pay for those PAST sins, He went to the Cross to pay for those PAST sins.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Jesus did this for us ONCE. Jesus cleansed us, made us white as snow, paid the penalty for those past sins. He wipes the slate clean. All this happens the moment we accept Him and become SAVED. AFTER that we are to no longer continue to live in sin. Why would you continue to do the very things that Jesus had to die for? You are washed, you are clean, you should not go back wallowing in the mud, you should not go back to doing the deeds of the old man, now that you are a new man in Christ, you should not continue to live in sin. All sins committed after you are SAVED, you will pay for, that is why it is written you will reap what you sow, also you will repay for the wrong which you do, also if you sow to the flesh you shall reap corruption of the flesh. YOU pay for them, you reap what you sow. Jesus went to the cross for you ONCE, He paid for all your sins up to the point of you getting SAVED, ONCE. Does that mean, if you commit sin After you are Saved, you are doomed? Heavens no. If a person Truly repents of a particular sin they commit, they will be forgiven by Jesus, even though they will still have to pay the consequences of their own sins. But in order to be Truly forgiven, you must Truly Repent, that is to say, Repent and cease to do the very thing you are repenting of. Anyone who continues to repent over and over again for the same sin, is NOT forgiven, because in order to be forgiven a person must have a Godly Sorrow, ONE that causes them to cease from doing that sin ever again. As long as a person is for example, fornicating, they are a fornicator, and no fornicator will enter into Heaven, no matter how loudly they say with their mouths "I'm Saved" or "I'm under the Blood" or "I'm under Grace" or "Once Saved Always Saved". Scriptures are True, and no fornicator will enter into Heaven, PERIOD. So as long as someone is living in fornication, it does not matter how many time they repent each time, they are still a fornicator. But if that person repents and ceases to fornicate ever again, that person will be forgiven, and will be clean, Why, because when they cease to do the darkness (fornicating), they are then walking in the light, and if they are walking in the light, then and only then is the Blood of Jesus cleanseth them from sins.
I John 1:7 But IF (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
But as long as that person is living in their sins, and they have not ceases from the sin that so easily besets them, they are indeed walking in darkness and NOT walking in the light. ONLY when a person is walking in the light, does the Blood of Jesus cleanseth them from all sin. But as long as they are doing that which is sinful, they are NOT walking in the light, but walking in sin, living in sin, backsliding, rejecting the Strength, Power, and Path that Jesus offers so they overcome. i am not teaching anything NEW here, Scriptures teach these things plainly.
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Notice it does not say to TRY to set it aside, it tells us to set it aside. So do it. So cease doing the sin that so easily besets you.
This is the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. The Path most Christians are on today, is an easy path. And the wrong one.
^i^ Responding to Post 37
Here is the Truth. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, all their PAST sins are forgiven them, Jesus paid for them, He took the stripes to pay for those PAST sins, He went to the Cross to pay for those PAST sins.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Jesus did this for us ONCE. Jesus cleansed us, made us white as snow, paid the penalty for those past sins. He wipes the slate clean. All this happens the moment we accept Him and become SAVED. AFTER that we are to no longer continue to live in sin. Why would you continue to do the very things that Jesus had to die for? You are washed, you are clean, you should not go back wallowing in the mud, you should not go back to doing the deeds of the old man, now that you are a new man in Christ, you should not continue to live in sin. All sins committed after you are SAVED, you will pay for, that is why it is written you will reap what you sow, also you will repay for the wrong which you do, also if you sow to the flesh you shall reap corruption of the flesh. YOU pay for them, you reap what you sow. Jesus went to the cross for you ONCE, He paid for all your sins up to the point of you getting SAVED, ONCE. Does that mean, if you commit sin After you are Saved, you are doomed? Heavens no. If a person Truly repents of a particular sin they commit, they will be forgiven by Jesus, even though they will still have to pay the consequences of their own sins. But in order to be Truly forgiven, you must Truly Repent, that is to say, Repent and cease to do the very thing you are repenting of. Anyone who continues to repent over and over again for the same sin, is NOT forgiven, because in order to be forgiven a person must have a Godly Sorrow, ONE that causes them to cease from doing that sin ever again. As long as a person is for example, fornicating, they are a fornicator, and no fornicator will enter into Heaven, no matter how loudly they say with their mouths "I'm Saved" or "I'm under the Blood" or "I'm under Grace" or "Once Saved Always Saved". Scriptures are True, and no fornicator will enter into Heaven, PERIOD. So as long as someone is living in fornication, it does not matter how many time they repent each time, they are still a fornicator. But if that person repents and ceases to fornicate ever again, that person will be forgiven, and will be clean, Why, because when they cease to do the darkness (fornicating), they are then walking in the light, and if they are walking in the light, then and only then is the Blood of Jesus cleanseth them from sins.
I John 1:7 But IF (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
But as long as that person is living in their sins, and they have not ceases from the sin that so easily besets them, they are indeed walking in darkness and NOT walking in the light. ONLY when a person is walking in the light, does the Blood of Jesus cleanseth them from all sin. But as long as they are doing that which is sinful, they are NOT walking in the light, but walking in sin, living in sin, backsliding, rejecting the Strength, Power, and Path that Jesus offers so they overcome. i am not teaching anything NEW here, Scriptures teach these things plainly.
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Notice it does not say to TRY to set it aside, it tells us to set it aside. So do it. So cease doing the sin that so easily besets you.
This is the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. The Path most Christians are on today, is an easy path. And the wrong one.
^i^ Responding to Post 37
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Is James 3:2 possible? Let's see...
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. (Jas 3:2)
In many things we offend all.
Is that you?
James just made a statement of fact "In many things we offend all.", but you rather see yourself in James conditional clause of "IF"..."If any man offend not in word, he is a perfect man".
James is showing that from his first statement, "In many things we offend all." the 2nd clause is purely hypothetical (of course Jesus was the only one who filled that bill), "If any man offend not in word,". Yet you will arrogantly put yourself in a position of having fulfilled ''not offending in word'' and thus being perfect?
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Ok so I agree with all that.We shouldnt continue in sin.I believe that. But I also know that we as Christians sometimes fail.We get angry,we think something we shouldn't etc. Im not saying we should continue in sin but we will not be perfect this side of heaven.No one in the Bible but Jesus was perfectly sinless.Should we strive to be like Him? Yes. But are we perfectly sinless? No.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Past my bed time folks. At 12:00 I turn into a pumpkin 
Will catch up with posts tomorrow.Blessings!
Will catch up with posts tomorrow.Blessings!
offending is not necessarily sinning. When i am at work i know i offend a couple of people by praying before i eat my lunch, so i offended them, this does not mean i committed sin by doing so. i may offend someone because i wear leather boots, a cow had to die in order for that leather to be made. Yes, i 100% agree in many things i offend all, even my bumper sticker that says "Many who plan to seek God at the eleventh hour, die at 10:30. Or the cross that hangs from my mirror may offend many as well. or the Jesus shirts that i wear they also offend many people as well.
But i do not offend in Word, that is to say, i do not do anything contrary to the Word, i abide in the Word as it is written:
I John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
i abideth in Him, He is the Word, i abideth in the Word, i abideth in Him. How will this generation escape that verse?
You say "the 2nd clause is purely hypothetical" Is that how you EXCUSE yourself from believing it? lol, because you THINK it is hypothetical, that means not to do it right? How many other things the Apostles of Jesus Christ teach that you THINK is hypothetical because you don't agree with what it plainly says? lol, seriously that made me laugh at that one. Yeah, that second part is hypothetical, therefore can't possibly be True, right? lol
^i^ Responding to post number 45
The context is not saying 'grace' at work. It is speaking and offending with our tongue...vs.10, vs 14. We all offend as James says.
It sounds like you are the one trying to justify your sin.
Could it be possible that you are not willingly going out of your way to sin, have been freed from being a servant to sin and because of that you may be mistaking that for being sinless?
1 Kings 8:46 ESV
If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near,
Ecclesiastes 7:20 ESV
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Proverbs 20:9 KJV
Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Sin was passed down to man from Adam through the flesh. This is why Christ came to pay for our sins and was born of the Holy Spirit. If He was not conceived this way He would have inherited sin in His flesh from Adam and would not have been able to pay for our sins. This is why our bodies die. Death could not hold Christ because He was without sin in His body and Soul. We can not attain this even with His indwelling Holy Spirit having dawned and risen in our hearts. Sinning less for sure but sinless is not attainable in flesh unless a man has not been conceived by the seed of Adam.
Are we not born again of the spirit and the flesh is put to death in Christ. Christ has given us a new life a new heart.
It is a matter of faith in Christ.
H
haz
Guest
James 3:1,2
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body
Hi Dave,
So you claim to be perfect man who does not stumble in word, able to bridle to whole body, is that right?
If so, then what about your words below.
Let's consider the rest of James 3 for context.
James 3:8-11
But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.With it we bless (love) our God and Father, and with it we curse (judge/condemn under the law) men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing (love/grace) and cursing (judgement/condemnation under the law). My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring (Christians) send forth fresh water (love/grace) and bitter (judgement/condemnation) from the same opening?
James 3 warns that those who teach error will face a stricter judgement.
And what error teaching does James 3 specifically use as an example?
It speaks against mixing works of the law, with grace, just as Rom 11:6 likewise warns against.
A spring (Christians) cannot bring forth both fresh water (love/grace), and bitter (judgement/condemnation under the law). There are numerous scriptures warnings against mixing works with grace. And you are going against these warnings in scripture.
You accuse any who do not perfectly obey the law in the following quote:
Now whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
Therefore we see that you judge righteousness by works of the law.
You oppose God's claim in James 3:11 that a spring cannot bring forth both fresh water, and bitter. You are mixing works of the law, with grace.
You're not that perfect man that you claim to be.
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The flesh we live in is sin, maybe that's why Jesus replied, only God is good. i believe when we get our new bodies of light, then there will be no sin.
H
haz
Guest
Here we agree.
I suspect when you say "we are to no longer continue to live in sin", you refer to what some call "habitual" sin.
Can you detail from scripture what determines "habitual", as such doctrine is ambiguous and leaves one wondering where is the cut off point where one is deemed to have crossed the line in slipping up once too often.
Is it 7x70 offences?
And does God take into consideration the length of one's life in determining whether they have slipped up once too often?
And are you saying that those with death bed salvation are more blessed than those Christians who live on for decades having to dodge the "habitual" sin bullet?
Also can you show scripture to show how Christians will pay for any "sins" committed after they received Christ?
Can you show from scripture what is God's limit on forgiveness that you suggest in your doctrine?
Christians are told that we are to forgive 7x70. Is this God's limit or is He less forgiving than He calls for us to be?
True. Scripture does say that fornicators will not enter into the kingdom. But you seem to miss the truth of that message. It refers to spiritual fornicators. Remember that scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2:14.
Christians are married to Christ, Eph 5:31. We're one Spirit with the Lord, 1Cor 6:17. Thus we are to flee spiritual fornication, 1Cor 6:18.
We should not be into spiritual fornication with another, like Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24. That is we should not mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.
Sadly I see some legalists on this forum who do mix works of the law, with grace, which is spiritual fornication with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.
Yes, Heb 12:1 does say to lay aside the sin that so easily besets us.
But you misunderstand it. In fact you are doing the very sin that Heb 12:1 warns against.
What is the sin that the world is convicted of?
It's unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9.
And note in Heb 12:1 that it speaks of running the race set before us. This confirms that Heb 12:1 refers to the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
Consider Paul's same race.
2Tim 4:7,8
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
Note 1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life (John 3:16), to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (confessed Jesus with your mouth, Rom 10:9) in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate,that you keep this commandment (to believe on Jesus)without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,
Thus we see in scripture that running the race as Heb 12:1 refers to, is to keep the commandment to believe on Jesus (John 3:16), just as that thief on the cross did.
And note Heb 12:15-17 as further confirmation that Heb 12:1 refers to the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
Heb 12:15-17
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God (unbelief in Jesus); lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any (spiritual) fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
Here we see the context of Heb 12 confirms yet again that the sin we are to be wary of is the sin of unbelief in Jesus (falling short of God's grace), which is the sin the world is convicted of (John 16:9).
And hows does one fall short of God's grace?
Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
And note how Heb 12:16 likens these legalists to fornicators as Esau. This confirms what I said earlier about spiritual fornication. Legalists are into spiritual fornication with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.
We simply cannot mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.
That would be like a fountain bringing forth both sweet water and bitter from the same opening. It cannot be.
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Amen! Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
No one in the OT could keep the law perfectly. Think of that.We're talking about Moses,Noah,David,great men of God still had to make sacrifices for sin.The blood of the lamb had to be shed.Then Jesus came to shed his blood for our sins and now we are covered by that blood.When God sees us He doesnt see a sinner because of the blood. But that doesnt mean we're perfect sinless Christians. If we could be sinless Christ didnt need to shed His blood.This is a doctrine that great out of the Holiness movement. We will not be perfectly sinless until we reach heaven.If Paul,John and Peter couldnt be perfectly sinless neither can we.We dont continue in sin,willfully committing sin, but will will make mistakes and fail at times.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
S
skylove7
Guest
In my heart I strongly feel there is a difference between sinless.... And perfection. I am definetly not sinless,...but I can strive to knock them out one by one...never to repeat them again! I know its possible in my heart! But to me yes " perfection" is only Jesus! To me perfection is one that nevervsinned at all. Please with the Holy Spirits love inside you,...understand DiscipleDave NEVER claimed in posts to be perfect! Though he got accused of that. He never said he never sins,... What he only wants to portray... Is the truth in scripture. Jesus told a man of flesh..."Go and sin no more"
I pray every day that I will be a child pleasing to God...more and more! If I have time! God Bless you all in love!
I pray every day that I will be a child pleasing to God...more and more! If I have time! God Bless you all in love!