sinless? or sinning less.

[MikkoAinasoja]

This all has not happen so long time ago, but separation has happen, and I know that now.

There was period of time, when I was praying forgiveness for the unnecessary sin's or what I thought was a sin, but it was just something from the past life, like our dear brother Paul also writes, about the sin which was hanging on him, or the feeling's of the sin.

And more specifically, about those unnecessary prayers for the sins.

That sin's what I was thinking I do, was more like wrong kind of thought.

The man can, and the man should be stop from doing sin, if the one just follow the Lord in honest heart, but if not, then the sinning more likely will continue.

So follow the Lord Jesus Christ in honest, pure heart.

 

[KJV1611]

Once again Apostle Paul in Romans 7 is not talking about his current walk in the faith, as he is explaining how he was carnal minded sold under sin in the flesh. In Romans 8 he shows his current position in the faith, and says he now walks by the Spirit in which there is now no condemnation in Christ because he no longer walks carnally minded, for he says that way leads to death..........

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Where does that verse say "I WAS sold under sin".

 

[KJV1611]

And more specifically, about those unnecessary prayers for the sins.

That sin's what I was thinking I do, was more like wrong kind of thought.

The man can, and the man should be stop from doing sin, if the one just follow the Lord in honest heart, but if not, then the sinning more likely will continue.

So follow the Lord Jesus Christ in honest, pure heart.

If a man can stop sinning, then why does 1 John 1 say that the man who says he stopped sinning is lying?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

"The righteous shall live by faith"

None of us are actually following Gods will perfectly, we do some things He asked and ignore others. Therefore we are not perfect. And that includes everyone who ever lived that wasnt the Son of God. Even Abraham was said that he was a righteous man because of his faith in Gods promise alone.

Nope, no human is without sin, not even His followers. We should try to leave sin, those who continue to sin have no sacrifice made for them. But I dont believe its right for a Christian to claim they left sin for good.


I know this point has already been made a million times by now, but I wanted to make mine anyways

 

[kennethcadwell]

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Where does that verse say "I WAS sold under sin".

He is talking of his current position when the law showed him his sinful ways, but then goes on to say who can save him from this way in verse 24. Then in verse 25 he says it is Jesus Christ, and in Romans 8:1 he goes on to say that there is no more condemnation in Christ by walking by the spirit and not by the flesh (carnally minded).

He shows clearly in chapter 8 we can not continue to walk carnally minded;


Apostle Paul's previous condition;

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.



Apostle Paul's current position;

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

What do you guys think that means, walking by the spirit and walking by the flesh?

 

[KJV1611]

He is talking of his current position when the law showed him his sinful ways, but then goes on to say who can save him from this way in verse 24. Then in verse 25 he says it is Jesus Christ, and in Romans 8:1 he goes on to say that there is no more condemnation in Christ by walking by the spirit and not by the flesh (carnally minded).

He shows clearly in chapter 8 we can not continue to walk carnally minded;


Apostle Paul's previous condition;

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.



Apostle Paul's current position;

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Was Paul still in his sinful ways when he said the following?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

If a man can stop sinning, then why does 1 John 1 say that the man who says he stopped sinning is lying?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

So if confess our sins, and not fight for them, like people's do today, the our Lord will clean us for our sins, like the Scriptures also tell us, if we read the whole subject.

Do not deceive your selves, but be truthful so you may com clean from sinning.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Was Paul still in his sinful ways when he said the following?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

You still are trying to stick with Romans 7 and missing the change that Paul went through from 7 to 8.
You can not walk carnally minded (walk in the flesh) which is what holds and keeps a person under the law. Walking in the Spirit releases a person from the law because the fruits of the Spirit are based from love, and love can do no wrong to others. The law was put here for a purpose to those who transgress it, if you walk in the Spirit you do not transgress His laws.
Apostle Paul clearly says in Romans 8:6 he could no longer live carnally minded as he said he was in 7:14 because that way leads to death and not eternal life that walking in the Spirit does. You can no longer be condemned by the law when you walk in the Spirit because the Holy Spirit will not have you walk in transgression. Christ can not deny Himself, therefore if Christ is in us He can not deny to follow His own commandments.....

 

[KJV1611]

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

So if confess our sins, and not fight for them, like people's do today, the our Lord will clean us for our sins, like the Scriptures also tell us, if we read the whole subject.

Do not deceive your selves, but be truthful so you may com clean from sinning.

So actually you admit that you do sin.... that's good. It gives you more credibility when you admit the obvious.

 

[KJV1611]

You still are trying to stick with Romans 7 and missing the change that Paul went through from 7 to 8.
You can not walk carnally minded (walk in the flesh) which is what holds and keeps a person under the law. Walking in the Spirit releases a person from the law because the fruits of the Spirit are based from love, and love can do no wrong to others. The law was put here for a purpose to those who transgress it, if you walk in the Spirit you do not transgress His laws.
Apostle Paul clearly says in Romans 8:6 he could no longer live carnally minded as he said he was in 7:14 because that way leads to death and not eternal life that walking in the Spirit does. You can no longer be condemned by the law when you walk in the Spirit because the Holy Spirit will not have you walk in transgression. Christ can not deny Himself, therefore if Christ is in us He can not deny to follow His own commandments.....

We will get to Romans 8 but first I would like for you to answer the question I asked. If you don't understand verses 16 and 17 then you don't understand Romans 8.

Was Paul still in his sinful ways when he said the following?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[michael56]

We will get to Romans 8 but first I would like for you to answer the question I asked. If you don't understand verses 16 and 17 then you don't understand Romans 8.

Was Paul still in his sinful ways when he said the following?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee in Rom 7:14-25. However, there is a huge difference between where Paul was in those verses and sinless perfection. Thought I should mention that due to responses I have sometimes received!

 

[KJV1611]

Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee in Rom 7:14-25. However, there is a huge difference between where Paul was in those verses and sinless perfection. Thought I should mention that due to responses I have sometimes received!

What makes you think he was speaking of his life as a Pharisee?

 

[michael56]

What makes you think he was speaking of his life as a Pharisee?

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22[/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Paul states in verse 14 he is sold as a slave to sin, yet in ch6:16 he says if you are a slave to sin this leads to death. If he is speaking of his life after 20 years as a Christian in 7:14-25 he is condemning himself.
Would we believe that Paul the mature Christian could not do the good he wanted to do, but rather the evil he did not want to do? He could not do what he wanted to do, but what he hated to do he rather kept on doing.
How would this tally with sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace?

 

[kennethcadwell]

We will get to Romans 8 but first I would like for you to answer the question I asked. If you don't understand verses 16 and 17 then you don't understand Romans 8.

Was Paul still in his sinful ways when he said the following?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

That is a fruitless debate because you can not use Romans 7 by itself, as you have use chapters 6 and 8 as well.
Using one chapter alone like that will always lead to wrongful approaches to what the scripture is saying. As Paul both in 6 and 8 says he can not live how he was by the law in 7 as it leads to death. So trying to pull just one chapter and making it fit all of Paul's full walk in the faith does not work.

 

[KJV1611]

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22[/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Paul states in verse 14 he is sold as a slave to sin, yet in ch6:16 he says if you are a slave to sin this leads to death. If he is speaking of his life after 20 years as a Christian in 7:14-25 he is condemning himself.
Would we believe that Paul the mature Christian could not do the good he wanted to do, but rather the evil he did not want to do? He could not do what he wanted to do, but what he hated to do he rather kept on doing.
How would this tally with sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace?

So this Jesus hating sinner serves the law of God with his mind?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[michael56]

So this Jesus hating sinner serves the law of God with his mind?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do you not believe the Pharisees of Jesus day tried to follow the law with their minds? They succeeded in obeying the legalistic laws, but not the law relating to the inner man. They became corrupted on the inside, and did in the flesh what they strove not to do in their mind.

 

[CRC]

Romans 3:23,24. We all have more in common than we realize.

 

[KJV1611]

That is a fruitless debate because you can not use Romans 7 by itself, as you have use chapters 6 and 8 as well.
Using one chapter alone like that will always lead to wrongful approaches to what the scripture is saying. As Paul both in 6 and 8 says he can not live how he was by the law in 7 as it leads to death. So trying to pull just one chapter and making it fit all of Paul's full walk in the faith does not work.

Ok, so you refuse to expound on those verses... How Paul does not sin but the sin that dwells in him does. Fine, let's move on to Chapter 8.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How does one walk in the Spirit?

 

[KJV1611]

Do you not believe the Pharisees of Jesus day tried to follow the law with their minds? They succeeded in obeying the legalistic laws, but not the law relating to the inner man. They became corrupted on the inside, and did in the flesh what they strove not to do in their mind.

Do you believe that as a Paharisee, Paul hated Jesus and all his followers? Do you believe this same person delighted in the law of God?