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Scandalous, no, people who make changes to the bible had good intentions. Controversional? Certainly amongst protestants who believe the bible cannot and was not altered.
Did they insert this scripture to force the bible to prove a doctrine? No, the doctrine of the Trinity existed well before this verse was inserted, and there are other non-controversial scriptures that show the Trinity...
But it certainly makes you think about the idea that the KJV is untouched and perfect etc etc. Read the links I provided above. My money's on the second one , where it is believed this teaching was in the original Greek, but was removed in the early church to avoid some problems with the heresies they had at the time..and no, one of them wasn't the Trinity...read the articles, I don't say they are the best or the most accurate, I don't know I'm not a historian. But it is something to think about.
Did they insert this scripture to force the bible to prove a doctrine? No, the doctrine of the Trinity existed well before this verse was inserted, and there are other non-controversial scriptures that show the Trinity...
But it certainly makes you think about the idea that the KJV is untouched and perfect etc etc. Read the links I provided above. My money's on the second one , where it is believed this teaching was in the original Greek, but was removed in the early church to avoid some problems with the heresies they had at the time..and no, one of them wasn't the Trinity...read the articles, I don't say they are the best or the most accurate, I don't know I'm not a historian. But it is something to think about.
Let's put it this way, if this was a court and I had to provide solid evidence, I would not use that verse. But it's no great loss, there are many other verses that support the Trinity, as I believe that's what the whole of scripture teaches when it is interpreted correctly. But we both lose out if we reject that verse, you can't use it to show that the three are actually one, and I can't use it to show the Trinitarian nature of God.
I used it as an illustration to show that the bible does indeed teach the Trinity. That's why JW's etc need other writings and teachings in addition to the bible.
No, I don't believe that. The trinity doctrine was well established before any verse was inserted in the 1500's.
Not really, it reads like this:
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are into the one.
so theres no longer reference to the Father, Son, Spirit.
This may be more of a problem for you than me, since I believe in the Trinity, but the thing is if you believe the KJV is perfect and incorruptably God's Word, the Trinity doctrine is there plainly for all to see, unchanged, untouchable. And make no mistake about it, it was not put there by Oneness believers in order to prove Oneness.
No, I don't believe that. The trinity doctrine was well established before any verse was inserted in the 1500's.
Not really, it reads like this:
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are into the one.
so theres no longer reference to the Father, Son, Spirit.
This may be more of a problem for you than me, since I believe in the Trinity, but the thing is if you believe the KJV is perfect and incorruptably God's Word, the Trinity doctrine is there plainly for all to see, unchanged, untouchable. And make no mistake about it, it was not put there by Oneness believers in order to prove Oneness.
O
I have come to the conclusion that you might really be insane. You are telling me #1 because the JWs say that the bible teaches the Trinity then that means the Bible does teach the Trinity, #2 The Bible is not inerrant, and #3 that trinitarian falsified documents and added to the kjv in the 1500s? WOW and your the one that believe in the Trinity CRAZY????
I thought you were the one not indoctrinated by doctrines of man. I gave you links to read if you don't want to be ignorant about the issue, have you read them? one the author of a KJV bible companion. Or are you completely ignorant of how the bible was put together and how we got the bible we have today? Or maybe you think it was all gold-ink pennd by Oneness believers whose hands were controlled by God, in the Catacombs of Rome hiding from the "Roman Catholic Church"... lol,.But if you want to use Trinitarian verses to try and prove Oneness, it doesn't bother me because I believe in the Trinity.
Might I also add, that despite your apparent dislike of organised religion and indoctrination, you've never realised that the bible you use, the KJV,
was written by the Church of England, for the Church of England? ,.. basically because they didn't like the Geneva bible. So the KJV is not immune from the doctrinal persuasions of human translators, or from the religious institution of the Church of England or King James. This should be evident with the use of terms like Bishop in the KJV, understood by most Church of England folk to be the church leader with the funny hat and shepherds crook. Whereas a Presbyterian might prefer to use the word Elder. And they also believed in baptism in the name of the Trinity, not Jesus only, baptism of infants, no Sabbath-keeping, etc. Yet you use the KJV and believe it is absolutely perfect in every way? ...if you don't like the Trinity and the religious institutions so much, you know what I think you should do? Go get the original greek and hebrew manuscripts, and translate your own version.
was written by the Church of England, for the Church of England? ,.. basically because they didn't like the Geneva bible. So the KJV is not immune from the doctrinal persuasions of human translators, or from the religious institution of the Church of England or King James. This should be evident with the use of terms like Bishop in the KJV, understood by most Church of England folk to be the church leader with the funny hat and shepherds crook. Whereas a Presbyterian might prefer to use the word Elder. And they also believed in baptism in the name of the Trinity, not Jesus only, baptism of infants, no Sabbath-keeping, etc. Yet you use the KJV and believe it is absolutely perfect in every way? ...if you don't like the Trinity and the religious institutions so much, you know what I think you should do? Go get the original greek and hebrew manuscripts, and translate your own version.
HHMMMMMMM......where have I heard that before?
OH Yeah.its in the Old Testament!
Psa 22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Maybe it was Jesus(God) Teaching on the cross for confermation to His Desciples.
read the rest of the psalm then go back and read mat.27,mark 15,& luke24.....You may be surprised.
Its really kool
OH Yeah.its in the Old Testament!
Psa 22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Maybe it was Jesus(God) Teaching on the cross for confermation to His Desciples.
read the rest of the psalm then go back and read mat.27,mark 15,& luke24.....You may be surprised.
Its really kool
check this out....
Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod. "Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah." On this passage the Jews lay great stress; and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries. On the word Elohim, Simeon ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim. There are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."
the Lord: Deu_4:35-36; Deu_5:6; 1Ki_18:21; 2Ki_19:5; 1Ch_29:10, Isa_42:8; Isa_44:6, Isa_44:8; Isa_45:5-6; Jer_10:10-11; Mar_12:29-32; Joh_17:8; 1Co_8:4-6;
Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod. "Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah." On this passage the Jews lay great stress; and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries. On the word Elohim, Simeon ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim. There are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."
the Lord: Deu_4:35-36; Deu_5:6; 1Ki_18:21; 2Ki_19:5; 1Ch_29:10, Isa_42:8; Isa_44:6, Isa_44:8; Isa_45:5-6; Jer_10:10-11; Mar_12:29-32; Joh_17:8; 1Co_8:4-6;
N
Although I'm not sure as to who believes this way but I've never met an evangelical that would agree with the statement that the Holy Spirit is / was the Second coming of Christ. I think the entire Book of Revelation, as well as various prophecies throughout the Old Testament (Daniel, Isaiah, & Ezekiel just to name a few) is evidence to that.
R
"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of GOD OUR SAVIOR; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Timothy 2:1-4
"....and there is no God else beside me; a just GOD and a SAVIOUR; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45: 21-22
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
1 Timothy 2:1-4
"....and there is no God else beside me; a just GOD and a SAVIOUR; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45: 21-22
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
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