Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

[Galahad]

Anyways, what I am trying to say is that the seasoned believer is without excuse concerning sin. They would have read the Bible enough and walked with God long enough to know not to sin (And by doing so, it would show that they love their sin more than God). However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth. However, they are not examples of how a believer is to live out their life, though. For there will be many who the Lord will say that He never knew them because they worked iniquity (i.e. sin).

Yes, "seasoned believer" is a determining factor. However, it does not change my general understanding of the principle taught in the verses.

 

[Jason0047]

Your reliance upon the truth is commendable. Indeed, it is. Especially the statement "God is Holy." Amen.


"And God is Holy and cannot let a person get away with sin. The only way sin can be taken care of is if they ask God for forgiveness." True. But, walking in the light, does not require, demand, an itemized list of sins. Oh, you are right. God is holy. (That part of God seems to be ignored by many. It is ruling and determining factor in His fellowship with us).

Okay, I am not in agreement with the conclusion that the man would be lost. He slipped. He saw, looked, lusted. Is he lost? I don't know.

Let me extend this a bit. The man saw. He looked. And lusted. Even while lusting, has his mindset changed toward the Lord? Does his lust suggest that his heart is dead set against the Lord? In other words, if that man should then meet his son for lunch. The man prays. In that prayer God hears, "Forgive us of our sin" is the man lost because he has not stated specifically his lust? Does the man have to specify that sin of lust? I don't think so. Does his omitting the specific sin of lust (even if not specified in private prayer) mean he is in rebellion, shaking His fist at God. Does it suggest he is unrepentant? No.

Oddly, the man's wife saw the man "looking." It's not his conscience that convicts his heart in this instance, but his angry wife. He admits and confesses.

Okay, he had the thought. It was wrong. A sin. But he moved on. He forgets about the woman and the sin. So never mentioned in prayer. I don't believe he is lost.

Again, this is not license to sin. Nor is it a license to ignore or belittle or undermine our shortcomings.

I am not in disagreement that you don't have to say the sin specifically. But the whole idea of confessing sin so as to be forgiven of sin in 1 John 1:9 would be regulated to useless background noise if we did not at least acknowledge our sin mentally as we said we were "sorry" with our lips towards God. God cannot break His Word and He is Holy. Confessing sins (which then leads to forsaking them) is the means by which we are cleansed or forgiven if we do sin. The Lord did not give us another alternative. This is for the believer who has been walking with God and knows about God's ways and sin. For the new convert is still learning about God. The believer who knows His Bible would be without excuse if they were to sin and then die. Now, this may seem unfair, but we have to realize that this person was never going to truly continue in loving the Lord. We have to realize that God is outside of linear time and He knows what each of us would do in any given situation. So if God destroys a believer who did evil like with Ananias and Sapphira, we can conclude that they were not saved because they did not have a chance to confess so as to be forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says for us to do in order to be forgiven.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Um, let me rephrase the questions. Did you ever sin since becoming a believer? Can any of the sins you have done since being a believer be classified as hating? Again, you can answer this from a third person perspective (If it is too personal).

I have nothing to hide from anyone - Yes, I have sinned since I became a believer. And yes I have come close to hate but I don't believe it was ever to another brother in Christ. I have probably done all of the listed above except "hater of God", or "pornography".

Look, Jason . . . you can ask something 100 different ways - it doesn't change the fact that the scripture you are trying to use is speaking of someone "born of the wicked one" that's why it uses Cain as an example. I have passed from death unto life so I therefore no longer abide in death as one who hates his brother. Context. BTW - what was wrong with my first answer?

All I have to say is that one who HATES at all, does not have the love of God abiding in them.

 

[Jason0047]

And most, if not everyone on this site who embraces eternal security lives likewise, yet you judge and throw everyone under the bus as being rebelliously disobedient.

First, the teaching of Eternal Security itself is rarely if never taught with holiness as the requirement. This in and of itself leads a person to think the wrong thing and will send them down the road to thinking they can sin and still be saved.

Second, I have not named anyone specifically to be "thrown under the bus" as you so call it. I am merely saying if you believe in such a way as the Bible describes it will not end well for that person. I am merely relaying what the Bible is saying. We have to confess our sins so as to be forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says. Most here do not really preach that when they preach Eternal Security or OSAS. Some here will admit that they are even a sinner. As if they have not been changed since being an unbelever. What this tells me is that if they think they are still a sinner who sins all the time, then they need to get their heart right with the Lord thru confessing their sins. Some may do just that. But some do not believe it is a requirement for salvation, though.

Third, there are many in whom I have talked with who do think they can sin and still be saved. My message is also for them (If they come accross this forum or thread). But what is odd, is that when I do mention this as a problem, others take offense to it. In other words, if I said it is wrong to kill another human being, I doubt I would get many objections here. But if somebody did object, then that tells me they thinking killing another human being is okay. It's the same with my discussion here. If folks are upset with what I am saying, then that means they are in disagreement with what I am saying because they do believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine (Whether they realize it or not).

 

[Jason0047]

I have nothing to hide from anyone - Yes, I have sinned since I became a believer. And yes I have come close to hate but I don't believe it was ever to another brother in Christ. I have probably done all of the listed above except "hater of God", or "pornography".

Look, Jason . . . you can ask something 100 different ways - it doesn't change the fact that the scripture you are trying to use is speaking of someone "born of the wicked one" that's why it uses Cain as an example. I have passed from death unto life so I therefore no longer abide in death as one who hates his brother. Context. BTW - what was wrong with my first answer?

All I have to say is that one who HATES at all, does not have the love of God abiding in them.

Of course it is easy to not want to see ourselves as Cain. He of course murdered. He murdered another person. The Scriptures say here that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Murder does not just apply to not murdering your brothers. Murder applies to not murdering anyone. Murder is a sin just like hate is a sin. Both can cause one to not have eternal life abiding within them.

Being disobedient to parents is a hateful sin.
Lying to others can be a hateful sin.
Theft is a hateful sin.
Having pride towards others is a hateful sin.
Falsely accusing another is a hateful sin.

Also we know that one is not saved if they have hate towards unbelievers (Such as the members of one's own household or those who are poor and or who are suffering).

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
(1 Timothy 5:8).


​

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did itnot to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:41-46).

​

Again, this is not salvation by Works. This is simply showing that when a person is changed or born again (saved), they will live out a new life and show that their faith is true by the fruit of the Spirit that works within them.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Of course it is easy to not want to see ourselves as Cain. He of course murdered. He murdered another person. The Scriptures say here that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Murder does not just apply to not murdering your brothers. Murder applies to not murdering anyone. Murder is a sin just like hate is a sin. Both can cause one to not have eternal life abiding within them.

What is it that you are not understanding - Scripture used Cain as the example in the context of the verse you are using. Cain was OF THE WICKED ONE. We are OF GOD, those that are born again - we have passed from death to life because we are born again - he that loves not his brother abides in death - therefore not OF GOD, NOT BORN AGAIN.

Being disobedient to parents is a hateful sin.
Lying to others can be a hateful sin.
Theft is a hateful sin.
Having pride towards others is a hateful sin.
Falsely accusing another is a hateful sin.

All of the above are sinful actions . . . . all these pertain to not loving others as ourselves - one born of the wicked one CANNOT DO [ex. Cain] but born again believers endeavor to do.

Also we know that one is not saved if they have hate towards unbelievers (Such as the members of one's own household or those who are poor and or who are suffering).

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
(1 Timothy 5:8).

​

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did itnot to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:41-46).

​

Again, this is not salvation by Works. This is simply showing that when a person is changed or born again (saved), they will live out a new life and show that their faith is true by the fruit of the Spirit that works within them.

All of these things effect my relationship/fellowship with God but these things do not change my place in the household of God. I believe all born again Christians KNOW how they should present themselves - Are we successful all the time? - probably not as much as we would like to be but that doesn't stop us from continuing to work on our areas of weakness.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am in total agreement with you on the Lord's prayer part. If a believer is unsure of what they have done wrong, this is a good practice to have. But there are times when the Holy Spirit will convict them of specific sins in their life, too. A believer cannot refuse to confess of a sin God is calling them to confess. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. A believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death as a way of life. If a believer is abiding in sins such as hate, murder, stealing, lust, etc. as a way of life then they are not saved and they need to confess and repent of their wicked ways. This is evident in many verses on confessing and repenting of one's sins. God cannot forgive someone who is still holding onto willful sin in their life (of which I am sure you agree with). But we also have to realize that it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to fall and not many sins. So we have to be careful of what we do as believers before the Lord. We always have to be humble before Him. Yes, I believe God is merciful and can forgive sins that were done in the heat of the moment. But there are some sins that are not acceptable to God (Even one's done in the heat of the moment). The Lord wants us to guard our hearts and always be on the straight and narrow.

Yes but Adam and Eve did not lose salvation for their one sin, they were punished for it by having to till the ground and childbirth. They were also cast out of the garden so that they could not eat of the tree of life also, and become immortal.
God punished them for their sin, as He chastises us when we do wrong today. That there is where I think you have the issue mixed up because they did not lose/forfeit salvation by eating from the tree of knowledge.

The other thing that you said which I do not deny but agree with is a person who continues to live their life in disobedience will not get eternal life. But you see if a person does live properly in the faith and then in the heat of the moment that commit a sin and die immediately afterwards I do not believe they will lose salvation. This also applies with things like suicide as some are still teaching this sin is unforgivable, yet that would then again be against what the Lord said when He said all sins are forgivable except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
So to say a person who sins in the last minutes of their life and then dies would be making others unforgivable as well, when the bible says only one is unforgivable....

 

[Jason0047]

What is it that you are not understanding - Scripture used Cain as the example in the context of the verse you are using. Cain was OF THE WICKED ONE. We are OF GOD, those that are born again - we have passed from death to life because we are born again - he that loves not his brother abides in death - therefore not OF GOD, NOT BORN AGAIN.

All of the above are sinful actions . . . . all these pertain to not loving others as ourselves - one born of the wicked one CANNOT DO [ex. Cain] but born again believers endeavor to do.

All of these things effect my relationship/fellowship with God but these things do not change my place in the household of God. I believe all born again Christians KNOW how they should present themselves - Are we successful all the time? - probably not as much as we would like to be but that doesn't stop us from continuing to work on our areas of weakness.

A murderer has no eternal life abiding in them. Murderers can murder anyone. The sin of murder is just as serious to God than all other sins. As I pointed to you before, if one does not provide for the members of their own household (Which can be unbelievers), they are said to be worse than an infidel. Eternal damnation is given to anyone who refuses to help the poor, etc. Paul says the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says be not deceivd in regards to that topic. Now, think about that a second. An unbeliever cannot be deceived. They are already deceived. To be deceived means that you have to fall for doing something wrong (Which would mean that Paul is talking to unbelievers). He is saying that any believer who sins those type of things that he has listed will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

You mean sort of like how I keep quoting 1 John 1:9 and ask people constantly here to explain it and many here (Not all) will refuse in doing so? Hmmm.... I wonder why they can't do a simple thing like explain a simple verse? I will tell you why. It is because they can't explain it. They honestly don't know how. They would rather that verse was ripped out of their Bibles. It is an inconvenience to what they believe. Some try to jump over it using some man made Theological gymnsastics, but we both know that such attempts are futile. They will have to face God and give an answer to Him for denying what 1 John 1:9 plainly says to the believer. For can their interpretation be illustrated in real life in additon to the testimony of the rest of Scripture? No. And therein lies the problem.

Be merciful unto me a sinner was sufficient and acceptable unto
Jesus......!

 

[Jason0047]

Be merciful unto me a sinner was sufficient and acceptable unto
Jesus......!

Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes but Adam and Eve did not lose salvation for their one sin, they were punished for it by having to till the ground and childbirth. They were also cast out of the garden so that they could not eat of the tree of life also, and become immortal.
God punished them for their sin, as He chastises us when we do wrong today. That there is where I think you have the issue mixed up because they did not lose/forfeit salvation by eating from the tree of knowledge.

The other thing that you said which I do not deny but agree with is a person who continues to live their life in disobedience will not get eternal life. But you see if a person does live properly in the faith and then in the heat of the moment that commit a sin and die immediately afterwards I do not believe they will lose salvation. This also applies with things like suicide as some are still teaching this sin is unforgivable, yet that would then again be against what the Lord said when He said all sins are forgivable except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
So to say a person who sins in the last minutes of their life and then dies would be making others unforgivable as well, when the bible says only one is unforgivable....

No, my friend; God essentially said that they would die in that very day they ate of the wrong fruit (Genesis 2:17). But did Adam and Eve die physically? No. They still needed to gain eternal life by eating of the Tree of Life. So their death was a spiritual one.

As for suicide: It is an unforgivable sin. Why? Because you can't repent or confess of that sin. Do you believe 1 John 1:9? What do you think it means? What is it's purpose for the believer?

 

[dcontroversal]

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth. QUOTE]

This very quote CONTRADICTS your salvation lite doctrine, contradicts one can lose salvation by sin and proves that you regularly contradict yourself.....This is APPLICABLE to ALL believers who have "slipped up" and lived contrary to the truth AFTER being saved eternally.....MAN you take the cake for sure! Jason open your eyes...this APPLIES UNTO ALL BELIEVERS....wow wake up!

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.

This quote by you contradicts your above statement....

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth. QUOTE]

 

[Jason0047]

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth.

This very quote CONTRADICTS your salvation lite doctrine, contradicts one can lose salvation by sin and proves that you regularly contradict yourself.....This is APPLICABLE to ALL believers who have "slipped up" and lived contrary to the truth AFTER being saved eternally.....MAN you take the cake for sure! Jason open your eyes...this APPLIES UNTO ALL BELIEVERS....wow wake up!

No, Paul says the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Saul was not accepted yet Solomon was. Solomon concluded that we should fear God and keep His commandments. Samson ended with asking God for help in sacrificing his own life so as to take down God's enemies. So Scripture has to be looked at from a balanced approach. One truth does not cancel out the other. Of course you are going to latch on to the sinful lifestyles of Samson and Solomon as proof that God will just excuse all believers to live exactly as they did because that lines up with your OSAS type belief. But this is not the case. They ended right. But they did not live right. Therein lies the difference. We see Jesus being upset with the Pharisees because they are hypocrites and they fail to keep the weightier matters of the law like love, justice, and mercy. Paul essentially says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing. Teaching that we can live like a Samson and or a Solomon is teaching contrary to the doctrine of Godliness.

 

[Galahad]

I am not in disagreement that you don't have to say the sin specifically. But the whole idea of confessing sin so as to be forgiven of sin in 1 John 1:9 would be regulated to useless background noise if we did not at least acknowledge our sin mentally as we said we were "sorry" with our lips towards God. God cannot break His Word and He is Holy. Confessing sins (which then leads to forsaking them) is the means by which we are cleansed or forgiven if we do sin. The Lord did not give us another alternative. This is for the believer who has been walking with God and knows about God's ways and sin. For the new convert is still learning about God. The believer who knows His Bible would be without excuse if they were to sin and then die. Now, this may seem unfair, but we have to realize that this person was never going to truly continue in loving the Lord. We have to realize that God is outside of linear time and He knows what each of us would do in any given situation. So if God destroys a believer who did evil like with Ananias and Sapphira, we can conclude that they were not saved because they did not have a chance to confess so as to be forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says for us to do in order to be forgiven.

Okay. I'm back for a short time, phone calls.

If the man in my scenario is lost at the moment he lusts, again, let us define it as slip, a stumble, then he is out of the light. He repents, confesses, now he's back in.

Walking in the light is the result of living a penitent life.

Again, I understand and do not take lightly your attention to "God is Holy." You are right, "God cannot break His word." That truth cannot be dismissed and is a truth that will assist in our interpretation of these passages. He is holy. That truth cannot be ignored.

If we say a person is lost, or out of the light, at the point of sin, then is not walking in the light like a tennis ball. One minute we're in and the next minute we're out? One minute in the light, next minute in darkness.

Yes, a seasoned believer should know more and more discerning. Agreed.

Sin is of the heart. It emerges regardless of how hard I try to not sin.

I will continue to read this thread.

Thank you for response. I am going to consider more all you wrote. Very much appreciated.

Will also respond later.

 

[dcontroversal]

No, Paul says the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Saul was not accepted yet Solomon was. Solomon concluded that we should fear God and keep His commandments. Samson ended with asking God for help in sacrificing his own life so as to take down God's enemies. So Scripture has to be looked at from a balanced approach. One truth does not cancel out the other. Of course you are going to latch on to the sinful lifestyles of Samson and Solomon as proof that God will just excuse all believers to live exactly as they did because that lines up with your OSAS type belief. But this is not the case. They ended right. But they did not live right. Therein lies the difference. We see Jesus being upset with the Pharisees because they are hypocrites and they fail to keep the weightier matters of the law like love, justice, and mercy. Paul essentially says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing. Teaching that we can live like a Samson and or a Solomon is teaching contrary to the doctrine of Godliness.

Any credibility you had went out the window with your contradiction found within your two statements.....period......and what is tragic is the fact that you are still blind to it and still attempt to argue your false doctrine.......

Originally Posted by Jason0047

Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.

This quote by you contradicts your above statement....

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth. QUOTE]

 

[dcontroversal]

Okay. I'm back for a short time, phone calls.

If the man in my scenario is lost at the moment he lusts, again, let us define it as slip, a stumble, then he is out of the light. He repents, confesses, now he's back in.

Walking in the light is the result of living a penitent life.

Again, I understand and do not take lightly your attention to "God is Holy." You are right, "God cannot break His word." That truth cannot be dismissed and is a truth that will assist in our interpretation of these passages. He is holy. That truth cannot be ignored.

If we say a person is lost, or out of the light, at the point of sin, then is not walking in the light like a tennis ball. One minute we're in and the next minute we're out? One minute in the light, next minute in darkness.

Yes, a seasoned believer should know more and more discerning. Agreed.

Sin is of the heart. It emerges regardless of how hard I try to not sin.

I will continue to read this thread.

Thank you for response. I am going to consider more all you wrote. Very much appreciated.

Will also respond later.

Here are two statements he made and as you can see he contradicts himself although he fails to see it and or will not accept that the bible teaches eternal security of a believer......

Originally Posted by Jason0047

Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.

This quote by you contradicts your above statement....

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth. QUOTE]

 

[peacefulbeliever]

A murderer has no eternal life abiding in them. Murderers can murder anyone. The sin of murder is just as serious to God than all other sins. As I pointed to you before, if one does not provide for the members of their own household (Which can be unbelievers), they are said to be worse than an infidel. Eternal damnation is given to anyone who refuses to help the poor, etc. Paul says the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says be not deceivd in regards to that topic. Now, think about that a second. An unbeliever cannot be deceived. They are already deceived. To be deceived means that you have to fall for doing something wrong (Which would mean that Paul is talking to unbelievers). He is saying that any believer who sins those type of things that he has listed will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But a murderer - in the context of 1 John 3 - is speaking of one NOT BORN AGAIN - ONE WHO ABIDES IN DEATH and has not passed from death unto life. Now you are moving on to other things.

Why do you continue to preach this to me? Eternal damnation is given to anyone who refuses to help the poor? In all actuality there is ONLY ONE thing that puts you IN DANGER of eternal damnation and that is one that blasphemes against the Holy Spirit - Mark 3:29

Jason - I am born again of God. I have received the gift of holy spirit whereby I am sealed until the day of redemption - none of this scares me. God has made me righteous, God has justified me, everything that is wrapped up in that gift of holy spirit belongs to me - because of something I have done? - NOPE - Christ did it all - I only have to believe in him and believe that God raised him from the dead. You need to study all the things you are in Christ . . . .

What makes you think that I just live my life helly nelly and have no remorse if I mess up?

Yes, it does say "will not inherit the kingdom of God" and as I said before:

In reference to: That is the difference of the willful sinner the bible speaks of that will not inherit eternal life

I went to Biblegateway and entered in "will not inherit eternal life" and "will not inherit everlasting life".
What do you know - 0 verses on each.

We know that God uses specific words to convey something to us - we know that He means what He says and says what He means . . .

SO . . . When He says we will not inherit the kingdom of God - wouldn't He have said "not inherit eternal life/everlasting life" if that is what He meant?

SO . . . "inherit the kingdom of God" - What exactly is meant by that? Does it have to do with our rewards? or does it actually mean eternal life?

Do you actually understand what it is to be born again of God? You BELONG to God . . .

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, my friend; God essentially said that they would die in that very day they ate of the wrong fruit (Genesis 2:17). But did Adam and Eve die physically? No. They still needed to gain eternal life by eating of the Tree of Life. So their death was a spiritual one.

As for suicide: It is an unforgivable sin. Why? Because you can't repent or confess of that sin. Do you believe 1 John 1:9? What do you think it means? What is it's purpose for the believer?

This is where you are wrong Jason as they were punished for eating of the tree of life, and the death that came to all mankind for them eating of the tree of knowledge was physical death. There would be no physical death in the world if they would not have eaten of the tree of knowledge. God makes this clear by explaining in Genesis 3:19 that because of eating of the fruit his body made from the dust of the ground it will return to dust (physical death).

And now because Adam and Eve no good from evil he cast them out of the garden so they could not eat from the tree of live also and become immortal at that time because they had to face chastising for what they did.
Suicide is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit therefore it can not be an unforgivable sin as the Lord says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. This is a false teaching that it is unforgivable as it was started by the RCC, but has no biblical basis. As for confessing it, that is where you are wrong as some write suicide notes and in such ask for forgiveness of it.

I know what 1 John 1:9 says, but you are taking it and taking the power out of the Lords hands by you stating and determining who goes to heaven and who doesn't.

The Lord knows everybodies heart, and you do not, therefore the Lord said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy on. But you are saying the Lord does not have mercy on nobody unless they uphold all perfectly and never slip up. The way you talk you speak as though you never sin, which is not biblical teaching.

We have an advocate in the Lord when we do sin again and He and only He makes that deciding judgment on who gets eternal life and who doesn't. Not us, and I seen you mention murder before also as unforgivable to. That is not correct as the worst sins a man can do are all forgivable as the Lord said.
The only one that is not is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; Which is speaking against, denying His power, denying His gifts, and trying to directly deceive the Spirit.................

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

If we say a person is lost, or out of the light, at the point of sin, then is not walking in the light like a tennis ball. One minute we're in and the next minute we're out? One minute in the light, next minute in darkness.

Perfect example ...

Matthew 16, NASB
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
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21 From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.
22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never * happen to You."
23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
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Peter was "in the Light" -- as implied by Jesus' own words, "flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father ... " Then just a few minutes later, he is compared to Satan attempting to thwart the Father's will by withholding Jesus from the cross. Definitely "in the dark" in that case.

We do the same thing, living a mostly holy life in Christ but stumbling onto the old man, who is dead, but not in the sense of how we view physical death. Death is a condition. It is a state of being. It is a realm. Consequently, we should never think of death as non-existence. It is existence, but it is existence apart from God.

It is conscious existence, able to function and move. Those who are dead can, and do, will and act, The spiritually dead -- the lost among us -- function. They operate. They perform. But they do it all in a realm other than that of Light. They do it in the realm of darkness. It they whom Jesus speaks of in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.