"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[forsha]

Salvation is "a deliverance". Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely salvations (deliverances) we receive here in this world. All of our timely deliverances are dependent upon our good works and obedience to God's commandments. If you keep applying the timely deliverances (salvations) to eternal, you will never be able to make the scriptures harmonize. All of the BOLD references that you have given to me are pertaining to timely salvations, not eternal.

 

[kennethcadwell]

rolls eyes,

You do not even know what babylonialism is. You do not understand what it was the Israel played the harlot with (paganism)

so how can we expect you to know who the harlot is.

Islam (saudi arabia) looks NOTHING like the false Gods Israel kept commiting adultry with.

Paganism is a multi God, organism.

Islam is a uni God organism. which is really more resembles judaism than paganism.

Again, are you ever going to study? or keep listening to men?

Because the bible in the OT prophecies tell us exactly where Babylon of the end times is located, and none of those descriptions show or say Rome. If you think that the Muslims only worship one God and do not do idol worship and such, then you are the one who has not researched it thoroughly. Take a look at Mecca how they bow down to a stone (idol worship). Plus I have tried to show you in the past how they still carry on the same pagan symbols that came from the Babylonian empire and even before hand. Crescent moon and star symbol..............

 

[popeye]

lol. and you think I do not understand it?

He fulfilled all the types. not just one.

No he didn't.
Marriage supper
Marriage cup
fetching the bride
Feasts;trumpets,tabernacles,etc
David's throne

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because the bible in the OT prophecies tell us exactly where Babylon of the end times is located, and none of those descriptions show or say Rome. If you think that the Muslims only worship one God and do not do idol worship and such, then you are the one who has not researched it thoroughly. Take a look at Mecca how they bow down to a stone (idol worship). Plus I have tried to show you in the past how they still carry on the same pagan symbols that came from the Babylonian empire and even before hand. Crescent moon and star symbol..............

rolls eyes.

Ok ken, I will let you believe this if you wish. It means nothing.

lets stick into you understanding the gospel. Who babylon is does not matter.

Just do me a favor. Stop saying you have proved things when you have not. That is pride and arrogance. and is getting quite old.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No he didn't.
Marriage supper
Marriage cup
fetching the bride
Feasts;trumpets,tabernacles,etc
David's throne

Those have nothing to do with with saving mankind and restoring their relationship with him.

I am talking about the salvation prophesies, How god is going to free people from slavery (egypt)

None of those could occur, if God did not take care of the problem that separated mankind from God in the first place.

 

[forsha]

Because they will walk in the fruits of the Spirit.
Remember the bible says no condemnation for those in Christ that walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. A person who is a believer can still give into their fleshly desires as Paul and James shows in Romans 6:23 and James 1:15. Jesus died for all sins, but He says how we receive that remission through His word, and nowhere does it say it is automatically done at the crucifixion. If that was the case then all humankind will be forgiven and saved, but that is not the case as only those who believe in the Lord and follow Him (teachings) receive that remission.........

It might shed some light on just who Christ died for on the cross, and it was not for all mankind. John 6:39, just for those that God gave to Jesus.

 

[kennethcadwell]

rolls eyes.

Ok ken, I will let you believe this if you wish. It means nothing.

lets stick into you understanding the gospel. Who babylon is does not matter.

Just do me a favor. Stop saying you have proved things when you have not. That is pride and arrogance. and is getting quite old.

First know the difference between saying tried to show and have proven, as those phrases have two different meanings.
Second if you are going to tell me to stop saying something, then you need to take the same advice and I would appreciate if you would stop stating false accusations against me and others in saying stuff we never said.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Those have nothing to do with with saving mankind and restoring their relationship with him.

I am talking about the salvation prophesies, How god is going to free people from slavery (egypt)

None of those could occur, if God did not take care of the problem that separated mankind from God in the first place.

Yet even those that God saved out of Egypt that then later on turned back to idol worship, and was given the chance to return to God by Moses that did not return to Him. The scriptures show that God destroyed them and blotted them out of His Book of Life....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First know the difference between saying tried to show and have proven, as those phrases have two different meanings.
Second if you are going to tell me to stop saying something, then you need to take the same advice and I would appreciate if you would stop stating false accusations against me and others in saying stuff we never said.

then stop saying them and I will

When you claim you do not preach works, then preach works. What else can we say, other than expose what your doing like God did.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It might shed some light on just who Christ died for on the cross, and it was not for all mankind. John 6:39, just for those that God gave to Jesus.

And how does one get given to the Lord by God?
By hearing the word of God and being renewed in the heart by faith of what they heard, and then turn and act on that faith.

 

[Elin]

Penalty and consequence are not the same thing.

The consequence of sin is both spiritual and physical death.

The penalty is the price exacted by the justice of God for its removal (forgiveness).

Jesus did not suffer the consequences of sin because he never sinned.

However, he did suffer the penalty of sin in the place of God's people.

Your right.

A consequence of sin is physical death, Sickness Disease. Pain and suffering etc etc.

Jesus did not have to pay the consquence of sin for redemption.

he had to pay the penalty of sin for redemption.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual)

The penalty of sin is the wrath of God (Jn 3:36; Ro 5:9).

Spiritual death of all mankind is the consequence of Adam's sin.
All mankind is born in spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life).

Eternal life (Holy Spirit life) is the consequence of rebirth by the Holy Spirit.
Only those who believe have received eternal life in the new birth.

Everyone else remains in the spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life) in which they were born.

the consequences of sin will not be removed until we reach eternity. thats why we still suffer consequences of sin even if we are born again

 

[forsha]

It is not hard to understand where you come from, but perish in the repentance of sins does not mean loosing your fellowship with God and not loosing salvation. The reason being is a person does not have salvation yet, so they can not loose what they do not have. Peter and Paul both show in many statements that salvation/eternal life is the ending result of our faith and not a beginning possession. Apostle Paul says quite a few times we have to continue in, keep ourselves in, stay firm in, and hold unto the assurance of salvation through faith.

It is my belief that if you do not separate the timely salvation scriptures from the eternal salvation scriptures, you will always have contradicting scriptures. Eternal salvation is totally by God's grace, without the help of man, and timely salvations require obedience to God's commandments, which is a salvation (deliverance) by works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet even those that God saved out of Egypt that then later on turned back to idol worship, and was given the chance to return to God by Moses that did not return to Him. The scriptures show that God destroyed them and blotted them out of His Book of Life....

They did not turn back to idol worship They never left it. They proved they were not saved the moment they left. They complained at the red sea, they complained in the dessert, they complaind about mana, they complained complained complained. They Did not trust Moses (thus did not trust God) and because of their lack of faith (proven by their lack of works, and continued sin) they did not enter the promised land.

God does that for us all. We are born dead. If we continue to remain dead (because we do not have faith) we will never be saved.

We may look like a christian, act like one, and even go with the flow (to church) but we have never been saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

then stop saying them and I will

When you claim you do not preach works, then preach works. What else can we say, other than expose what your doing like God did.

What I preach on is works that come from the fruits of the Spirit, not my own personal works.
For the bible shows that if a person has no fruits produced through them, they do not have the Holy Spirit. And the Lord says all branches that do not produce fruit are gathered and burned, which is a picture of the lake of fire.....

 

[Elin]

"It is finished." What is the "it?"

The "it" is what is finished

Yeah. . .that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The penalty of sin is the wrath of God (Jn 3:36; Ro 5:9).

Spiritual death of all mankind is the consequence of Adam's sin.
All mankind is born in spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life).

Eternal life (Holy Spirit life) is the consequence of rebirth by the Holy Spirit.
Only those who believe have received eternal life in the new birth.

Everyone else remains in the spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life) in which they were born.

Which is what I have been saying since day one.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual), the gift of God is eternal life (spiritual).

 

[popeye]

Those have nothing to do with with saving mankind and restoring their relationship with him.

I am talking about the salvation prophesies, How god is going to free people from slavery (egypt)

None of those could occur, if God did not take care of the problem that separated mankind from God in the first place.

............restoring their relationship with him.

Paul said soon face to face.

We will be "restored" when with him in glory,in heaven.
We are redeemed and walk in the "partial",not in fulness yet.

Here is your argument vs mine;
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I preach on is works that come from the fruits of the Spirit, not my own personal works.
For the bible shows that if a person has no fruits produced through them, they do not have the Holy Spirit. And the Lord says all branches that do not produce fruit are gathered and burned, which is a picture of the lake of fire.....

Dude, It does not matter if it is works which come from the spirit, or works which do not come from the spirit

If these works are required to EARN salvation, to KEEP salvation, and to NOT LOSE salvation. You teach works.

why? Because salvation is based on these works that YOU DO.

That's what you teach. end of story.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul said soon face to face.

We will be "restored" when with him in glory,in heaven.
We are redeemed and walk in the "partial",not in fulness yet.

Here is your argument vs mine;
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Not sure what your saying.

That passage completely tells you and everyone else what I am saying, I agree with what it says.

so if that is what you believe, I believe it also

Your not making any sense.

 

[Elin]

The penalty of sin is the wrath of God (Jn 3:36; Ro 5:9).

Spiritual death of all mankind is the consequence of Adam's sin.
All mankind is born in spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life).

Eternal life (Holy Spirit life) is the consequence of rebirth by the Holy Spirit.
Only those who believe have received eternal life in the new birth.

Everyone else remains in the spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life), the consequence of Adam's sin, in which they were born,
whose penalty is the wrath of God.

Which is what I have been saying since day one.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual), the gift of God is eternal life (spiritual).

Are you sure about that?