"It is finished." What is the "it?"
- Thread starter santuzza
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E
By eph 2: 8-9.
For it is by grace we were SAVED through faith, and not of ourselves. it is the gift of God. not of works lest anyone should boast.
By eph 1: 13 - 14.
having heard word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, after we believed (had faith) we were sealed with the spirit.
Also John 3: 16, John 6 etc etc/
Hearing then believing (having faith) is what saves us (makes us alive)
For it is by grace we were SAVED through faith, and not of ourselves. it is the gift of God. not of works lest anyone should boast.
By eph 1: 13 - 14.
having heard word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, after we believed (had faith) we were sealed with the spirit.
Also John 3: 16, John 6 etc etc/
Hearing then believing (having faith) is what saves us (makes us alive)
E
romans 1 says all men understand the depravity of man. Thats why they have no excuse.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things...........And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind...........[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
sorry, But you would have to remove romans 1 or twist it to something that is not what it says for you to be correct.
E
Maybe you aught to read eph 2: 5-10
[SUP]5 [/SUP]even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), [SUP]6 [/SUP]and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [SUP]7 [/SUP]that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), [SUP]6 [/SUP]and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [SUP]7 [/SUP]that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
E
I posted all of thayers remarks.
Are you going to deny it?
Thayer is one person. we do not get our gospel from thayer even if he did say this, If he is a calvanist, then you would expect him to say that. All people interpret the word based on their own beliefs, thats why yuo study more than one man.
E
don't know how to explain?
I used proper hermenuetics. I used context.
I guess your like many who refuse to look at context. and just look at one verse and use your own interpretation even if context does not allow it?
The bible must agree, it can not contradict itself. you use the word to interpret the word. or don;t you know that?
I used proper hermenuetics. I used context.
I guess your like many who refuse to look at context. and just look at one verse and use your own interpretation even if context does not allow it?
The bible must agree, it can not contradict itself. you use the word to interpret the word. or don;t you know that?
Hehe. Not being single minded would be no problem. The problem is that the view which you have expressed has in it theological problems, some of which you seem not yet to have discovered.
But you are saying that He died spiritually and as such had to be born again, which you believe also occurred at the cross. How can you say this without also saying that Jesus became a sinner or that He literally became sin? How can that work together?
Yes, there was a separation in the sense that God for that while must "treat" Him as a sinner. It does not mean that He was literally separated from the Father as sinners are separated from God due to their sin (Isa.59:2, Jer.5:25). Again, the sin sacrifices did not literally become what they atoned for. They had to be pure and without blemish all the time, else the sacrifice was invalid. Do you see this difference and distinction to be made?
To talk about my calvinism is pie throwing. We are clearly taught what sin is and what our sins are and how they separate us from God. Ty. As for Calvin he taught nothing murky regarding the moments of Christ on the cross. Actually, it was Calvin who pioneered in the field of the biblical doctrine of substitutionary atonement, something also you would believe in, I assume. Me think it's your flat, literalistic reading of the text which veils your eyes to see the problems it creates, when not having a consistent interpretation of same. You are in effect saying that Jesus became a sinner, but since you know that other texts, flatly and literally, are not saying that, you come up with a half-way or a left-fielder to go around the problem. That's why you end up stuck with the notion "the penalty for sin is spiritual death" (even no flat, literal text says that) and that "Jesus died spiritually" (even no flat, literal text says that) and that "Jesus was born again" (even no flat, literal text says that). And that's where we are at.
But you are saying that He died spiritually and as such had to be born again, which you believe also occurred at the cross. How can you say this without also saying that Jesus became a sinner or that He literally became sin? How can that work together?
Yes, there was a separation in the sense that God for that while must "treat" Him as a sinner. It does not mean that He was literally separated from the Father as sinners are separated from God due to their sin (Isa.59:2, Jer.5:25). Again, the sin sacrifices did not literally become what they atoned for. They had to be pure and without blemish all the time, else the sacrifice was invalid. Do you see this difference and distinction to be made?
To talk about my calvinism is pie throwing. We are clearly taught what sin is and what our sins are and how they separate us from God. Ty. As for Calvin he taught nothing murky regarding the moments of Christ on the cross. Actually, it was Calvin who pioneered in the field of the biblical doctrine of substitutionary atonement, something also you would believe in, I assume. Me think it's your flat, literalistic reading of the text which veils your eyes to see the problems it creates, when not having a consistent interpretation of same. You are in effect saying that Jesus became a sinner, but since you know that other texts, flatly and literally, are not saying that, you come up with a half-way or a left-fielder to go around the problem. That's why you end up stuck with the notion "the penalty for sin is spiritual death" (even no flat, literal text says that) and that "Jesus died spiritually" (even no flat, literal text says that) and that "Jesus was born again" (even no flat, literal text says that). And that's where we are at.
I am less sure about your dualistic(?) view of what the penalty for sin is. The penalty of sin is not only spiritual death. And which ever way you want to put it, even if the penalty, or the consequence, of sin is spiritual death, then Jesus must not pay back the debt of that penalty by literally meeting the identical fate of Adam.
The first paragraph of yours above is faulty logic. Secondly, I don't agree with the view that the penalty for sin was solely physical death alone.
The first paragraph of yours above is faulty logic. Secondly, I don't agree with the view that the penalty for sin was solely physical death alone.
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F
Yes, I will deny the fact that you did not post all of Thayer's interpretations of the word "world". All scriptures must harmonize before you have the truth. You believe that Christ died for the sins of all mankind, but in fact he died only for those that God gave him which is clearly pointed out in John 6:39. You believe that the natural man, void of the Holy Spirit, can discern spiritual things when 1 Cor 2:14 clearly points out that the natural man can not discern anything of a spiritual nature. You believe that man can override Gods will by refusing to accept his offer, which was not an offering to man, but to God. Dan 4:35 - God has his way in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. These are inspired writings and not from Thayer.
F
You stated in a previous post, if I am remembering right, that God does not quicken a person unless that person is cleansed and washed first. Eph 2:5 refutes that idea. As you said, "You use the word to interpret the word and make all scriptures harmonize. I have explained the verses that you gave me following the 5th verse of Ephesians, so, let's make all of those verses harmonize with your statement that a person will have to be cleansed first before God will quicken him.
C
What had been accomplished? While Jesus achieved many things by his life and death, was it not primarily for settling the issue of God’s sovereignty that Jesus came to earth? And was it not foretold that as the “seed,” he would suffer the extreme test at Satan’s hands so as to clear God’s name of all reproach? (Isaiah 53:3-7) These were weighty responsibilities, yet Jesus fulfilled them in every respect. What an accomplishment
K
False claims as always, as I do because of love for our Lord, not to keep salvation.
The difference between us is that you like a couple others on here do not want to accept the many scriptures that shows one can fall/walk away from the faith and not end up with eternal life. The works I do are not works of my own as they are from the Holy Spirit who guides me, that the bible says is proof of true faith. Lord Jesus says if the branch/tree produces no fruit than they are gathered and burned, showing that fruits(works) of the Spirit go hand and hand with faith in Christ unto salvation.
Love is the greatest fruit of the Spirit in which our faith hangs on even though some deny it, but 1 John clearly says the one who does not love does not know God. For love is proof of Christ abiding in them, and hatred is proof He does not.
The difference between us is that you like a couple others on here do not want to accept the many scriptures that shows one can fall/walk away from the faith and not end up with eternal life. The works I do are not works of my own as they are from the Holy Spirit who guides me, that the bible says is proof of true faith. Lord Jesus says if the branch/tree produces no fruit than they are gathered and burned, showing that fruits(works) of the Spirit go hand and hand with faith in Christ unto salvation.
Love is the greatest fruit of the Spirit in which our faith hangs on even though some deny it, but 1 John clearly says the one who does not love does not know God. For love is proof of Christ abiding in them, and hatred is proof He does not.