As for 1 John 1:9, it says if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin. I just believe that verse at face value. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Meaning, we can't look at confession as a license to sin. We have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light. Does the OSAS proponent do that? Or does the OSAS proponent say they have no sin because it was forgiven them past, present, and future? (See 1 John 1:8).
Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)
- Thread starter MikkoAinasoja
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
This view belies, rejects and ignores the following that have been said by everyone that believes in eternal security and is a straight up lie.....
1. No one who believes in eternal security has said we are without sin
2. No one who believes eternal security teaches that we can walk anyway we want
3. Christ dies unto SIN once and paid the sin debt of the WHOLE world...to deny this is to reject the atonement found in the blood of Christ...
The evidence suggests otherwise. Real life and Scripture refute it every time. There are too many warnings in the Bible that an Eternal Security person has to ignore in order for their doctrine to be true. Like Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven, etc. Also, try as you might, you will never be able to illustrate or make a real world example out of Eternal Security. Yet, Jesus illustrated spiritual truth all the time by using real world examples (i.e. parables).
No. Unbelievers go thru the same challenges that believers do. So there is no real incentive for the believer who wants to sin and still be saved. Only the believer who truly wants to please the Lord and do what is right will heed the chastisement of the Lord. The believer who thinks they can sin and still be saved will just continue to do that because they enjoy the pleasure of their own unrighteousness.
Besides, the doctrine itself leads one to think they can sin and still be saved (Which is why it is a problem).
Besides, the doctrine itself leads one to think they can sin and still be saved (Which is why it is a problem).
E
No. Because belief in and faith in is not enough.
Belief (mental agreement) will not save you, faith does.
As john and peter and James all say, If you have faith in something, you will not depart from that faith, If you departed, you never were of us, You never had faith to begin with (it was dead) or your like a dog, who returned to your own vomit.
The fact is, Your always going to go where your TRUE faith leads you.
How? Your faith was never in eternal security, You may have thought you believed it one time for a minute or two. But you never had faith in it.
Again, Faith saved, not mental agreement.
Nice try though
lol. I have about 1000 people who left the catholic church and about 2000 people who left the protestant church who teach as you do. all going to my church now
Does that mean I am right? No. not any more than your few people do.
You just posted a straw man argument my friend.
No. The pharisee is nothing like those who have faith in God. They are like you. they think they are holy, and praise God they are not like the sinner. You do that every day you decide to come in here. That is how blind you are. You can not even see your own condition, and why you can not see the truth of the tax collector.
No. A state of humbly chosing God is not a condition. It is a position.
A position you have never come to. which is why your still trying to earn it by your own righteous deeds.
Many who do believe in Eternal Security say they are forgiven, past, present, and future and have no sin that can separate them God. They have no sin record. All sin is forgiven them. So they are saying they have no sin. Do you not believe future sin is forgiven you?
I talked with someone face to face who believes in Eternal Security and they told me they could mow down a crowd of people with a submachine and still be saved. So no. You would be wrong. Besides, like I said, the doctrine itself leads a person to think they can live however they like because no sin will truly separate them from God when they die. So they can have their pet sins and serve God, too. This is evident in the fact that many have argued against me and tell me that no Christian cannot stop sinning.
Yes, Jesus did die for the sins of the entire world. But that does not mean everyone is forgiven, though. There are conditions a person has to meet in order for the free gift to be applied to their life.
I talked with someone face to face who believes in Eternal Security and they told me they could mow down a crowd of people with a submachine and still be saved. So no. You would be wrong. Besides, like I said, the doctrine itself leads a person to think they can live however they like because no sin will truly separate them from God when they die. So they can have their pet sins and serve God, too. This is evident in the fact that many have argued against me and tell me that no Christian cannot stop sinning.
Yes, Jesus did die for the sins of the entire world. But that does not mean everyone is forgiven, though. There are conditions a person has to meet in order for the free gift to be applied to their life.
E
see you do not even know what we teach.
A person who believes in eternal security based on Christ will NEVER walk around saying he has no sin. He will ALWAYS walk around in Christ as the humble servant (the tax collector) Because HE UNDERSTANDS what sin does between him and God.
Your the one going around professing how holy you are. not us.
A person who believes in eternal security based on Christ will NEVER walk around saying he has no sin. He will ALWAYS walk around in Christ as the humble servant (the tax collector) Because HE UNDERSTANDS what sin does between him and God.
Your the one going around professing how holy you are. not us.
Other people's faith was in Eternal Security for many years. They acted it out and played the part and believed in it. But they chose to reject it because of what Scripture says. For Jesus says, if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. That is a Condition. Also, you are now saying that what you must believe requires more than just a mental acknowledgement. This would then be works, right? So are you saved by works? My guess is that would be a .... no. But how do you describe taking action or obedience beyond a mental acknowledgment as not being works. I know the answer. I believe it is God that does the work in the believer. That is why we are not saved by works or by anything we can ever do on our own mertis. We cannot earn our salvation. No sir. We cannot. But what I have a problem with is that you doctrine in and of itself leads a person down the wrong road, though.
Again, do you believe future sin is forgiven you?
Do you believe physical death and not spiritual death is the result for a believer if they commit sin before they die?
Would not taking away the conseqence give a person a license to sin?
Do you honestly think a person who is ruled by the pleasure of sin is going to be discouraged by some challenge in life when even unbelievers are challenged by things in this world? This is why I believe only the believer who truly wants to please the Lord and do what is right always will heed chastisement.
Again, do you believe future sin is forgiven you?
Do you believe physical death and not spiritual death is the result for a believer if they commit sin before they die?
Would not taking away the conseqence give a person a license to sin?
Do you honestly think a person who is ruled by the pleasure of sin is going to be discouraged by some challenge in life when even unbelievers are challenged by things in this world? This is why I believe only the believer who truly wants to please the Lord and do what is right always will heed chastisement.
The Scriptures say, without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Scriptures also refer to believers as saints and not sinners, too. God's people are good and they are not evil. However, the OSAS proponent is subtle on this point, though. They will say future sin is forgiven them which is essentially saying they have "no sin"; Yet, they get out of making it look like they are saying that (When that is what they are saying) when they say they sin physically (Which leads to physical death and not spiritual death).
I have numerous real BIBLE examples....
If you believe on the SON you have eternal life<--NOT TEMPORARY LIFE
I have been JUSTIFIED by the faith of Christ and the righteousness of God imputed unto me.....
SANCTIFIED FOR EVER in Christ.....
Keep twisting and trusting yourself and your own righteousness.....good luck with your works.....MANY will brag and boast of their self righteous works in that day.....good luck with that.....
Where did I say I am boasting in my works to be saved. I never said that nor do I beleive such a thing. I believe any or all good comes from God and that His good will naturally flow thru a believer's life. So how can I lay claim to the working of God in me or another believer? I don't. I can't. It would be impossible. I know a true saving faith will always involve one being holy and fruitful because they have the Spirit within them. For it is the fruit of the Spirit within their life and not themselves.
But as for one being Once Saved Always Saved: Where in the Bible does it ever say a believer can hate their brother and still have eternal life abiding in them? Does not Scripture say the exact opposite in 1 John 3?
But as for one being Once Saved Always Saved: Where in the Bible does it ever say a believer can hate their brother and still have eternal life abiding in them? Does not Scripture say the exact opposite in 1 John 3?
E
no they did not. When you have faith in something (say like in God) and the one you have faith in never lets you down, or give you a reason to stop trusting in him, Your faith does not all of a sudden stop and go someplace else.
Are you saying I can trust God and he will let me down to the point I will stop trusting him?
God said my sin was forgiven before time began, Thats why he chose me before the foundation of the world to be his son.
Did God lie?
physical death has never been the penalty of sin.
Jesus paid for every one of my sins on the cross. if he did not pay for them all. they can not be redeemed. And I will never be forgiven.
Nope. because all sin has consequences. Ask the drunkard who died because he choked in his sleep how much consequences sin has, or the adulterer who got aids. or the proud person who can not understand why no one wants to give him the time of day if their is consequences for sin.
I died the moment adam died (I was in adam)
I live the moment jesus came back to life (spiritually) Yet in Christ shall all live
why do you reject the word?
if a person does not thinks he needs chastened, or healed of his sin, He will never trust God.
If he never trust God, he will never be saved (thus will never be chastened)
A person who has true faith will ALWAYS feel Gods chastening, he may not return at once, but he will head it, You can not hide from God like you can your parents.
Are you saying I can trust God and he will let me down to the point I will stop trusting him?
God said my sin was forgiven before time began, Thats why he chose me before the foundation of the world to be his son.
Did God lie?
physical death has never been the penalty of sin.
Jesus paid for every one of my sins on the cross. if he did not pay for them all. they can not be redeemed. And I will never be forgiven.
Nope. because all sin has consequences. Ask the drunkard who died because he choked in his sleep how much consequences sin has, or the adulterer who got aids. or the proud person who can not understand why no one wants to give him the time of day if their is consequences for sin.
I died the moment adam died (I was in adam)
I live the moment jesus came back to life (spiritually) Yet in Christ shall all live
why do you reject the word?
if a person does not thinks he needs chastened, or healed of his sin, He will never trust God.
If he never trust God, he will never be saved (thus will never be chastened)
A person who has true faith will ALWAYS feel Gods chastening, he may not return at once, but he will head it, You can not hide from God like you can your parents.
I was relaying what he said. Those were not my words. Any holiness and or goodness comes from God working His good within my life and it is not of my own doing. I am merely yielding to God and allowing His good fruit to flow thru my heart and life. So no. I am not claiming to be good or holy in and of myself. Only God is good and only God is Holy.
it's a little weird and hard to tell, when someone says they believe ,
partly because in english to believe is so different than in hebrew ... and , btw, so different from
what yahweh requires for life.
it may go all the way to some core belief that isn't founded in yahweh's WORD, but is buried
deep deep inside an individual's life and requires wisdom from above to free someone, and sheer grace.
or, as it was in yahshua's day, some simply 'would not' follow him because they loved the approval of men
instead of the approval of yahweh; and/or they hated the light, standing right in front of them, because
their DEEDS WERE EVIL and they wanted to stay hidden in their darkness.
partly because in english to believe is so different than in hebrew ... and , btw, so different from
what yahweh requires for life.
it may go all the way to some core belief that isn't founded in yahweh's WORD, but is buried
deep deep inside an individual's life and requires wisdom from above to free someone, and sheer grace.
or, as it was in yahshua's day, some simply 'would not' follow him because they loved the approval of men
instead of the approval of yahweh; and/or they hated the light, standing right in front of them, because
their DEEDS WERE EVIL and they wanted to stay hidden in their darkness.
E
this is ridiculous dude. your getting as bad as some of the other people in here.
Saying sin is forgiven, and saying one no longer sin, is not the same thing.
You do not need forgiven, unless you are still guilty under the law as a sinner.
Here is your problem. The law condemns you where you stand, because as you even admit, you still sin.
Yet you refuse to be healed of your sin, because you think your sin does not stink, and all you have to do is say I am sorry and God will forgive you.
News flash. The only way to be forgiven is to RECIEVE the grace gift of God. Not EARN the merit of salvation by doing something.
God does not force salvation on people. They can turn away if they don't want to be with him like many others have done in the past and today. Also, no. You are saying that a person is Eternal Secure as long as they believe that doctrine? That does not make any sense. That is a circular argument that refutes itself.
Again, I ask you... Do you believe future sin is forgiven you?
Do you believe only physical death is the result for a believer who sins and then dies?
Again, I ask you... Do you believe future sin is forgiven you?
Do you believe only physical death is the result for a believer who sins and then dies?
Last edited: