Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

[Jason0047]

You know Paul was left for dead and shipwrecked and slept in the ocean twice and went to Rome knowing it was His death. You think wow this man did a great work for God. Yet He wrote the works that I do are not my own. I place my faith in the cross least any man should boast.

I am not proposing we are saved by works. No, no. Most certainly not. That would be silly. However, if one is truly saved by God's gift of grace (Which is not of works), then the fruits of the Spirit will be manifested within their life. If not, then they need to examine themselves whether Christ be in them or not (As Paul says).

 

[Jason0047]

I am not proposing we are saved by works. No, no. Most certainly not. That would be silly. However, if one is truly saved by God's gift of grace (Which is not of works), then the fruits of the Spirit will be manifested within their life. If not, then they need to examine themselves whether Christ be in them or not (As Paul says).

This is important to understand because one cannot have life without the Son (1 John 5:12).

 

[ChristInUs]

I am not proposing we are saved by works. No, no. Most certainly not. That would be silly. However, if one is truly saved by God's gift of grace (Which is not of works), then the fruits of the Spirit will be manifested within their life. If not, then they need to examine themselves whether Christ be in them or not (As Paul says).

I am in totally agreement. However, we are not perfect. So how do we live a victorious life. What is the only thing we can do? If we love God we abide by His word. But, no one can do that, so what do we do, where is our hope. Keeping Sabbath? maybe fasting? maybe deep study in the word? What do you tell a christian that is failing? Maybe get baptized and that will fix it. Doing something you know is wrong and doing it anyway, how does that get fixed and by the way that is bondage. Doing something against your will is bondage as Paul describes in Romans 7. Shall we read more and pray more and volunteer at the church? What is the answer?

 

[dcontroversal]

. It is a works based doctrine and hides behind the ruse of Grace.

This one comes close to taking to cake for sure.....if it did not reek of ignorance and contradiction it would almost be humorous....first time I have ever heard someone say that people who teach eternal security as a works based doctrine....yeah...keep believing that!

 

[ChristInUs]

This one comes close to taking to cake for sure.....if it did not reek of ignorance and contradiction it would almost be humorous....first time I have ever heard someone say that people who teach eternal security as a works based doctrine....yeah...keep believing that!

well if your faith is in what you do then it's no different than Islam.

 

[Jason0047]

I am in totally agreement. However, we are not perfect. So how do we live a victorious life. What is the only thing we can do? If we love God we abide by His word. But, no one can do that, so what do we do, where is our hope. Keeping Sabbath? maybe fasting? maybe deep study in the word? What do you tell a christian that is failing? Maybe get baptized and that will fix it. Doing something you know is wrong and doing it anyway, how does that get fixed and by the way that is bondage. Doing something against your will is bondage as Paul describes in Romans 7. Shall we read more and pray more and volunteer at the church? What is the answer?

Our hope is in Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. But shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul says, God forbid. Meaning, we cannot commit sin. For Paul lists certain sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, lying, and drunkenness, etc.; Paul says they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says be not deceived in regards to this matter. So this is talking to the believer. Paul says, examine yourself whether Christ be in you or not. Meaning, if Christ lives within us, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident within our lives. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. How do we know we are walking after the Spirit and not some other spirit? By seeing if our life is lining up with God's Word or not. If it is not lining up like it should be, then we have God's grace that we can gain access to so that He can change us.

But is a Christian saved by getting baptized? No.

Are they saved because they pray a lot? No.

Are they saved by giving to the poor? No.

However, when a person is saved by God's grace, they will exhibit a change in their life and God will live in them and do the good work in their heart and lives. Good fruit will result and not bad fruit.

As for Romans 7:

Paul is talking about his experience before he became a Christian when he was a Jew trying to wrongfully be justified by the Law.

 

[dcontroversal]

well if your faith is in what you do then it's no different than Islam.

See....my faith is not what I do...my faith is in Christ and what he has done and is doing.....so not sure where you get your facts from!

 

[Jason0047]

well if your faith is in what you do then it's no different than Islam.

True, salvation is not of ourselves or in what we do on our merits or efforts. However, that said, we can't rebel against God and think we are our own masters whereby we can do whatever we like, though. Jesus is our Lord and Master. For we are bought and paid for with a price. For there is a certain cooperation or yielding to God so that He can do the good work thru us (According to His Word). We have to repent and accept Christ as our Savior and allow Him to justify and sanctify us. For sin can separate a believer from God if they refuse to confess and repent of it.

 

[ChristInUs]

Our hope is in Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. But shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul says, God forbid. Meaning, we cannot commit sin. For Paul lists certain sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, lying, and drunkenness, etc.; Paul says they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says be not deceived in regards to this matter. So this is talking to the believer. Paul says, examine yourself whether Christ be in you or not. Meaning, if Christ lives within us, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident within our lives. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. How do we know we are walking after the Spirit and not some other spirit? By seeing if our life is lining up with God's Word or not. If it is not lining up like it should be, then we have God's grace that we can gain access to so that He can change us.

But is a Christian saved by getting baptized? No.

Are they saved because they pray a lot? No.

Are they saved by giving to the poor? No.

However, when a person is saved by God's grace, they will exhibit a change in their life and God will live in them and do the good work in their heart and lives. Good fruit will result and not bad fruit.

As for Romans 7:

Paul is talking about his experience before he became a Christian when he was a Jew trying to wrongfully be justified by the Law.

Right
Right
wrong

His name was Paul and writing to the Church in Rome. He was trying to live for God by keeping law. The meaning of the new covenant was revealed to him. Who shall deliver me from this body of sin? I thank the Lord Jesus Christ. He was saved on the road to Damascus. But, with His college education being taught by Gamaliel, He tried to live for God by his works or law. Then He writes that he became captive, which means bondage, which means doing things you don't want to do.which he wrote the things which I will to do I do not and that which I will not to do that I do. Tell me what sinner does not want to sin?

 

[Jason0047]

Right
Right
wrong

His name was Paul and writing to the Church in Rome. He was trying to live for God by keeping law. The meaning of the new covenant was revealed to him. Who shall deliver me from this body of sin? I thank the Lord Jesus Christ. He was saved on the road to Damascus. But, with His college education being taught by Gamaliel, He tried to live for God by his works or law. Then He writes that he became captive, which means bondage, which means doing things you don't want to do.which he wrote the things which I will to do I do not and that which I will not to do that I do. Tell me what sinner does not want to sin?

If Paul was still a Christian then why does he say he was yet carnal sold under sin in Romans 7:14 and then says he is free from the Law of sin and death in Romans 8:2?

For one is not a Christian yet if they believe they are still carnal who is sold under sin.

Also, Paul was not disobedient to the vision that he had when he was converted on the road to Damascus.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:19-23).

 

[ChristInUs]

If Paul was still a Christian then why does he say he was yet carnal sold under sin in Romans 7:14 and then says he is free from the Law of sin and death in Romans 8:2?

For one is not a Christian yet if they believe they are still carnal who is sold under sin.

Also, Paul was not disobedient to the vision that he had when he was converted on the road to Damascus.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:19-23).

The reason why is the new covenant was revealed to Him. He was trying to live for God by His own means as the OT would confer. Why would He be writing to the church in Rome and describing his sin as Saul? What help would that be to Christians in Rome?

 

[Jason0047]

The reason why is the new covenant was revealed to Him. He was trying to live for God by His own means as the OT would confer. Why would He be writing to the church in Rome and describing his sin as Saul? What help would that be to Christians in Rome?

Uh, no. Jesus told him to preach the Gentiles. That is why he went to them. For Paul said,

For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. (Acts 13:47).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Only those who apostasized for rejecting Jesus Christ when they have tasted of the heavenly gift and been partakers of the Holy Spirit, can they not crucify the Son of God afresh again (See Hebrews 6:4-6). However, James 5:19-21 does teach that a believer can backslide into siin and be renewed back to the faith to the saving of their soul, though.

Hebrews 6 destroys your works based gospel. for it says if they could fall away, they can never be renewed again, So you lose salvation, your done.

Side Note:

Again, I don't believe in Works Salvationism.

Then stop working to earn it, and recieve it with humility and joy, And know God will never renig on his promise. He is your abba Father.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Scriptures say, He that does not love does not know God.
Take a step back a moment. Would another person (who is being objective) say you are being loving with your words towards me right now?

If you see someone in error. You turn them away from error. Thats how you love someone.

Yes, the wife showed love she forgave unconditionally. As God loves, But you do not want to focus on that, you want to focus on the sin and the sinner, Well unless its your own sin, which you excuse the easy way with 1 John

Anyways, God will not allow one of His own people to get away with evil. That would not be loving on the part of God if God is good, holy, just, and righteous (of which He definitely is).

Your right, he will not, He will chasten them and get them back in line.

What he will not do is kick them out of his family, He adopted them, they did not adopt him. To ckick them out, he would not be loving.

of course, I forgot, you don't understand what true love is. I can only pray you do not treat your wife and kids they you you say God treats us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OSAS is a lie of Satan and that doctrine will lead many to hell. It is a works based doctrine and hides behind the ruse of Grace.

No. Saying salvation is dependent on man working is a lie of satan. That will lead people to hell. as it places the work of men over the work of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know Paul was left for dead and shipwrecked and slept in the ocean twice and went to Rome knowing it was His death. You think wow this man did a great work for God. Yet He wrote the works that I do are not my own. I place my faith in the cross least any man should boast.

Paul was saved before he did those works, he did not do them to earn salvation. Or to gain anything. Thats why he could call them a "momentary light affliction" Because he was secure in Christ, And he already knew eternity with God was in his possession.

For you workers. You can not say this, your eternity is still in doubt.

thats why he could not boast. They were not for self gain.

People who do not preach eternal security, teach their work is for self gain. thus they boast of their works, even if they deny it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This one comes close to taking to cake for sure.....if it did not reek of ignorance and contradiction it would almost be humorous....first time I have ever heard someone say that people who teach eternal security as a works based doctrine....yeah...keep believing that!

lol. they get crazier every day. It amazes me.

 

[PeterJens]

What is the point of the gospel? To redeem a people. But when are they redeemed? Now, here on earth. What is the power of the gospel? Love working through the soul of an individual. How does a person know it is happening? They do loving things, they care and think of others, they are sensitive to the situations they find themselves in and strive to bring about the best outcomes.

The beginning of the transformation cannot be earnt because it is Jesus, his life, his sacrifice, his love demonstrated for all to see. It is an eternal marker of you can trust me, this is who I am.

Now you can agree that love is a good way to live, and do the actions without the source, but you will dry up like a river bed with no water. Works need to be the honest outflow of your heart, or they are dead works done to justify yourself.

I therefore find this kind of discussion odd, because to me it seems plain, works are a testimony to the work done within, the engine of Jesus's love and life working within a person, not earning a way to heaven, because those with Jesus's love have already arrived in the Kingdom.

The problem with the miracle and wonders groups, is they believe in a magical zap, which is not the gospel, that is gnostic ideas, and does not address the core failure of mankind and sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well if your faith is in what you do then it's no different than Islam.

Do what?

Those who preach eternal security do not have faith in what they do. it is the legalists and licentious that base their eternity on pride and what they do.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

lol. they get crazier every day. It amazes me.

No doubt, seems in the last month or so all these new members spring up all the sudden and start asking the silliest of questions and comments. Especially in the last couple of weeks.