I am not proposing we are saved by works. No, no. Most certainly not. That would be silly. However, if one is truly saved by God's gift of grace (Which is not of works), then the fruits of the Spirit will be manifested within their life. If not, then they need to examine themselves whether Christ be in them or not (As Paul says).
Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)
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I am in totally agreement. However, we are not perfect. So how do we live a victorious life. What is the only thing we can do? If we love God we abide by His word. But, no one can do that, so what do we do, where is our hope. Keeping Sabbath? maybe fasting? maybe deep study in the word? What do you tell a christian that is failing? Maybe get baptized and that will fix it. Doing something you know is wrong and doing it anyway, how does that get fixed and by the way that is bondage. Doing something against your will is bondage as Paul describes in Romans 7. Shall we read more and pray more and volunteer at the church? What is the answer?
Our hope is in Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. But shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul says, God forbid. Meaning, we cannot commit sin. For Paul lists certain sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, lying, and drunkenness, etc.; Paul says they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says be not deceived in regards to this matter. So this is talking to the believer. Paul says, examine yourself whether Christ be in you or not. Meaning, if Christ lives within us, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident within our lives. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. How do we know we are walking after the Spirit and not some other spirit? By seeing if our life is lining up with God's Word or not. If it is not lining up like it should be, then we have God's grace that we can gain access to so that He can change us.
But is a Christian saved by getting baptized? No.
Are they saved because they pray a lot? No.
Are they saved by giving to the poor? No.
However, when a person is saved by God's grace, they will exhibit a change in their life and God will live in them and do the good work in their heart and lives. Good fruit will result and not bad fruit.
As for Romans 7:
Paul is talking about his experience before he became a Christian when he was a Jew trying to wrongfully be justified by the Law.
But is a Christian saved by getting baptized? No.
Are they saved because they pray a lot? No.
Are they saved by giving to the poor? No.
However, when a person is saved by God's grace, they will exhibit a change in their life and God will live in them and do the good work in their heart and lives. Good fruit will result and not bad fruit.
As for Romans 7:
Paul is talking about his experience before he became a Christian when he was a Jew trying to wrongfully be justified by the Law.
True, salvation is not of ourselves or in what we do on our merits or efforts. However, that said, we can't rebel against God and think we are our own masters whereby we can do whatever we like, though. Jesus is our Lord and Master. For we are bought and paid for with a price. For there is a certain cooperation or yielding to God so that He can do the good work thru us (According to His Word). We have to repent and accept Christ as our Savior and allow Him to justify and sanctify us. For sin can separate a believer from God if they refuse to confess and repent of it.
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His name was Paul and writing to the Church in Rome. He was trying to live for God by keeping law. The meaning of the new covenant was revealed to him. Who shall deliver me from this body of sin? I thank the Lord Jesus Christ. He was saved on the road to Damascus. But, with His college education being taught by Gamaliel, He tried to live for God by his works or law. Then He writes that he became captive, which means bondage, which means doing things you don't want to do.which he wrote the things which I will to do I do not and that which I will not to do that I do. Tell me what sinner does not want to sin?
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wrong
His name was Paul and writing to the Church in Rome. He was trying to live for God by keeping law. The meaning of the new covenant was revealed to him. Who shall deliver me from this body of sin? I thank the Lord Jesus Christ. He was saved on the road to Damascus. But, with His college education being taught by Gamaliel, He tried to live for God by his works or law. Then He writes that he became captive, which means bondage, which means doing things you don't want to do.which he wrote the things which I will to do I do not and that which I will not to do that I do. Tell me what sinner does not want to sin?
If Paul was still a Christian then why does he say he was yet carnal sold under sin in Romans 7:14 and then says he is free from the Law of sin and death in Romans 8:2?
For one is not a Christian yet if they believe they are still carnal who is sold under sin.
Also, Paul was not disobedient to the vision that he had when he was converted on the road to Damascus.
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:19-23).
For one is not a Christian yet if they believe they are still carnal who is sold under sin.
Also, Paul was not disobedient to the vision that he had when he was converted on the road to Damascus.
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:19-23).
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If you see someone in error. You turn them away from error. Thats how you love someone.
Yes, the wife showed love she forgave unconditionally. As God loves, But you do not want to focus on that, you want to focus on the sin and the sinner, Well unless its your own sin, which you excuse the easy way with 1 John
Your right, he will not, He will chasten them and get them back in line.
What he will not do is kick them out of his family, He adopted them, they did not adopt him. To ckick them out, he would not be loving.
of course, I forgot, you don't understand what true love is. I can only pray you do not treat your wife and kids they you you say God treats us.
Yes, the wife showed love she forgave unconditionally. As God loves, But you do not want to focus on that, you want to focus on the sin and the sinner, Well unless its your own sin, which you excuse the easy way with 1 John
Your right, he will not, He will chasten them and get them back in line.
What he will not do is kick them out of his family, He adopted them, they did not adopt him. To ckick them out, he would not be loving.
of course, I forgot, you don't understand what true love is. I can only pray you do not treat your wife and kids they you you say God treats us.
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Paul was saved before he did those works, he did not do them to earn salvation. Or to gain anything. Thats why he could call them a "momentary light affliction" Because he was secure in Christ, And he already knew eternity with God was in his possession.
For you workers. You can not say this, your eternity is still in doubt.
thats why he could not boast. They were not for self gain.
People who do not preach eternal security, teach their work is for self gain. thus they boast of their works, even if they deny it.
For you workers. You can not say this, your eternity is still in doubt.
thats why he could not boast. They were not for self gain.
People who do not preach eternal security, teach their work is for self gain. thus they boast of their works, even if they deny it.
What is the point of the gospel? To redeem a people. But when are they redeemed? Now, here on earth. What is the power of the gospel? Love working through the soul of an individual. How does a person know it is happening? They do loving things, they care and think of others, they are sensitive to the situations they find themselves in and strive to bring about the best outcomes.
The beginning of the transformation cannot be earnt because it is Jesus, his life, his sacrifice, his love demonstrated for all to see. It is an eternal marker of you can trust me, this is who I am.
Now you can agree that love is a good way to live, and do the actions without the source, but you will dry up like a river bed with no water. Works need to be the honest outflow of your heart, or they are dead works done to justify yourself.
I therefore find this kind of discussion odd, because to me it seems plain, works are a testimony to the work done within, the engine of Jesus's love and life working within a person, not earning a way to heaven, because those with Jesus's love have already arrived in the Kingdom.
The problem with the miracle and wonders groups, is they believe in a magical zap, which is not the gospel, that is gnostic ideas, and does not address the core failure of mankind and sin.
The beginning of the transformation cannot be earnt because it is Jesus, his life, his sacrifice, his love demonstrated for all to see. It is an eternal marker of you can trust me, this is who I am.
Now you can agree that love is a good way to live, and do the actions without the source, but you will dry up like a river bed with no water. Works need to be the honest outflow of your heart, or they are dead works done to justify yourself.
I therefore find this kind of discussion odd, because to me it seems plain, works are a testimony to the work done within, the engine of Jesus's love and life working within a person, not earning a way to heaven, because those with Jesus's love have already arrived in the Kingdom.
The problem with the miracle and wonders groups, is they believe in a magical zap, which is not the gospel, that is gnostic ideas, and does not address the core failure of mankind and sin.
