On the fence

[Brownies]

I know this is the eternal burnings question....when is it time to go? How do you throw away 28 years? It's depressing thinking about failing after all this time. I feel like I'be wasted a good portion of my life building up my spouse to where now I feel obligated to continue doing so. There's nothing left for me. When I mention divorce he threatens suicide then proceed to "stage" the attempt. I know it sounds crazy and had I read someone else posting I would find it hard to believe too. Long drama short, I'm searching for a local support group in my area. I find it's a very close knit thing...not like AA. You can those groups 24/7.

 

[tourist]

Where is it that you might want to go?

 

[maxwel]

If things are this bad, you need some counseling sessions with your pastor.

 

[Brownies]

In the Houston area, I'm looking for a support group where I can talk and share some feelings with others in similar situations. I hesitate talking to family members due to forcing them to take sides. We're in leadership at our local congregation and not ready to burden them just yet. I want to be anonymous until I can figure this thing out

 

[AbbeyJoy]

praying for restoration. All I can say is go and get some help or some guidance

 

[soccermom19]

Are you talking about leaving your marriage? If so, what are the reasons? I really don't have enough information to offer you any real advice.
Is your husband mentally ill? Has he had mental problems in the past? Did his threats of suicide start after you mentioned leaving him? I'm not trying to pry, just trying to help.
For now, I will pray for you and your husband. God Bless you!

 

[Brownies]

He has a lot of childhood physical abuse and low self esteem issues. I always known this and have spent almost thirty years uplifting him. Now I see I've not only become his crutch, but I feel manipulated by him.

 

[soccermom19]

How terrible for you. You sound like a very strong person to deal with these things for such a long time. You may need to show some tough love. Counselling sounds like a good idea. Prayer will also help.
I encourage you to stay in your marriage though. Your vows are for better or worse, in sickness and in health. I know it is hard, many of my family members have struggled and are still struggling with mental illness. Be there for him, but don't let him manipulate you.
There are many people on CC who will pray for you and help talk you through these hard times, including myself. Please feel free to vent or get advice whenever you feel the need.
I am praying for your situation. God Bless!

 

[presidente]

Hi Brownies,

I'm sorry you and your husband are going through a difficult time. Are you a believer? Is he?

You know, in Matthew 19, Jesus said that he who puts away his wife, except it be for fornication, and marry another, commits adultery, and he who marries her who is put away commits adultery. Paul passed on commandment of the Lord in I Corinthians 7, let not the wife depart from her husband, but if she departs, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband, and let not the husband put away his wife.

Jeremiah prophesied a message from the Lord to Israel that like a treacherous wife departs from her husband, so Israel had departed from the Lord. The Lord, in the book of Malachi calls the men who were putting away their wives treacherous as well.

When you get married, you take upon yourself the responsibility to stay with that spouse for life. Are you just wanting to leave because you are so emotionally drained? He didn't cheat on you, beat you up, try to kill you, etc.?

They say you are supposed to take claims of a desire to commit suicide seriously. Some people threaten suicide when their spouse wants to leave. And some people actually do that or commit suicide over losing a boyfriend or girlfriend. If he's using threats of suicide as a threat to get you to stay, that's pretty messed up. But a wife leaving her husband because he's depressed is pretty messed up, too. It's not ethical or moral, even if we live in a society whose ethical morality is so low, that a lot of people think it's okay to leave a spouse just because your feelings have changed.

But I can also understand that it would be very draining to spend a lot of time around someone with severe mental or emotional issues. You might be able to improve your situation if he learned to depend on the Lord to help him with his emotional issues and if you learned not to think you are responsible for his emotional state. You two might benefit from some counseling. You would also benefit from growing in your relationship with God, and trusting him with these depression issues. One practical thing you could do together is pray together every single day and study the Bible together. You can also pray that the Lord will strengthen you and renew your love for your husband.

If you wake up one morning and realize you don't love your spouse, you don't need to divorce, you need to repent. Metanoia, translated repentance, refers to a changing of the mind. You need a new mindset and attitude toward your husband and toward God. If God gave you to him as a wife, and if God created women to be helpers to their husbands, then He has plenty of grace to enable you to be a good wife to your husband with a good attitude. He can heal up your emotional wounds and help you be a good wife to a husband without having a bad attitude toward Him. He can also heal your husbands emotional wounds.

 

[Brownies]

Thank you..."strength" is my weakness. As girls we are taught to be strong and self sufficient. But, as Christian wives we are taught to be subject to our husband. It took me years to realize the duality of this role. And many more years to allow God's will be my guide and be strong in public but meek at church. As I mentioned in a previous post we are leaders in our church...my husbands a deacon, so the added pressure of maintaining appearances is crushing! He craves admiration and I'm the keeper of all his shame and insecurities. Maybe I'm more embarrassed that people who admire my "strength" will be shocked at how long I've been dealing with this. I smile on the outside but cringe on the inside when people compliment us as a couple. Prayerfully the Lord will guide me...

 

[presidente]

Brownies, I just posted a message at the same time as yours that appeared right above your last post.

If you two are having major issues in your marriage, maybe he could step down from being a deacon for a time to work on those issues.

 

[Brownies]

Presidente, thank you for your insight. We are both believers and he's a deacon. We are both advid students of the bible, but as you know knowing God's word and applying it is two different things. Yes, he has been unfaithful to me on several occasions and been thru counseling twice. When you're dealing with someone who's been taught all his young life that he's worthless, physically and mentLly abused by alcoholic father it's difficult to say the least to combat those self defeating images. And without God we would have never lasted 29 years. And yes I believe he uses suicide as tool to manipulate me into not leaving him. You bringing out that this is a illness gives me some tools to use in resolving this with our marriage intact. As for me my prayer is for strength to break the silence...thank you again

 

[Brownies]

Honestly, the shame may push him over the edge. To him image is everything.

 

[soccermom19]

[TABLE="width: 601, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][SIZE=+1]The First Epistle of Paul the Apostle to[/SIZE][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"][SIZE=+2]Timothy[/SIZE][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"][SIZE=+2]3[/SIZE][/TD]
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[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 601, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]
Qualifications of Bishops[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]1 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]2 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]3 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]4 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]5 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"](for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]6 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]7 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Tit. 1.6-9
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]
Qualifications of Deacons[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]8 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]¶ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]9 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]10 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]11 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]12 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 5%, align: right"]13 [/TD]
[TD="width: 95%"]For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
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[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
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[/TABLE]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but in my opinion, your husband has no buisness being a deacon if he has committed adultery and threatened suicide. He no longer meets the qualifications for the office of deacon. He cannot be found blameless or faithful. Deacons are meant to be leaders in the church. They are to set an example for others. He needs to step down immediately. And you need to make sure it happens. Talk to the pastor yourself if your husband is unwilling to.
Since adultry is involved, you have the right to leave him or ask him to leave the home. Separation may be good for you both. Perhaps he will see that you are unwilling to put up with his foolishness anymore and change for the better. Or, he may continue to try and manipulate you and those around him. His true colors will appear sometime after you separate. Either he will change and you can choose to work on your marriage or not. Or he will not change and you can move on knowing that you gave him many chances. Pray and God will answer.
I will pray for your situation.

 

[Brownies]

I agree with you 100%, but I must accept partial blame for my part in the secrecy. Question...I forgave him for his infidelity years ago. Is it the Christian thing to do now to bring it back up as grounds to push him to step down? I can already hear him rationalize that he's repented of those past sins and been forgiven. Right now the two most important things in this world to him is his image & me. Everything about him is due to all the positive reinforcement, support, and encouragement I've given him. Without me he stand to lose his image and deaconship. Thus the threats of suicide...

the crazy part of this entire thing is I am a counselor by profession, see all the signs, know all the words to say, techniques to apply, but can't seem apply any of it to myself

 

[twotwo]

I know this is the eternal burnings question....when is it time to go? How do you throw away 28 years? It's depressing thinking about failing after all this time. I feel like I'be wasted a good portion of my life building up my spouse to where now I feel obligated to continue doing so. There's nothing left for me. When I mention divorce he threatens suicide then proceed to "stage" the attempt. I know it sounds crazy and had I read someone else posting I would find it hard to believe too. Long drama short, I'm searching for a local support group in my area. I find it's a very close knit thing...not like AA. You can those groups 24/7.

As it is written: What you are about to do, do quickly.

However, this would change nothing to your search for happiness...

 

[santuzza]

Whether he repented of his past infidelity or not, he still is not currently qualified to be a deacon. Anyone in this state is not mentally stable enough. Plus, your household is a mess, so he's not ruling it well.

You both need to step down from leadership immediately and get into counseling. Period.

 

[presidente]

In my opinion, if a mans' home life is messed up so that his wife is ready to leave him, he's not ruling his house well and doesn't need to be serving as a deacon or bishop/overseer (popularly known as 'pastor' in various Protestant circles.) Whether a man who has committed and been forgiven for adultery can serve is a question for debate, though one might say he is not 'above reproach.'

I knew a pastor whose wife cheated on him. He stepped down from his pastoral role. It wasn't him that cheated, but his house wasn't in order.

It just doesn't seem right to me that if one spouse commits adultery and the other forgives him and accepts him or her back, that the offended spouse carries a 'get out of marriage free card' that they can use at any time. Spouse X commits adultery, so 5, 10, or 15 years down the line, spouse Y decides that he/she is bored or exhausted with the marriage, and decides to bail, so he/she pulls out the 'get out of marriage free card.' He/she says 20 years ago, my spouse committed adultery, and all his/her church friends say, divorce that sucker. If the spouse commits adultery, you could wait until someone more attractive or richer shows you interest, whip out the 'get out of marriage free' card, and get a divorce while your Christian friends cheer you own. Is that really forgiving and taking the other person back?

As far as divorce goes, the law of Moses makes no provision for a woman to divorce a man. A woman who gives a man a bill of divorce and moves out and marries another a man is an adulterous worthy of the death penalty. That divorce certificate isn't legal. Jesus said nothing about a woman divorcing her husband and remarrying except to forbid it. The 'exception clause' in Matthew 19 for a man divorcing his wife is very narrow, for fornication, not for any old cause.

The only possible place where a woman is told she can divorce her husband isn't a woman divorcing her husband. It's being abandoned. This is something Paul says is his own advice, him speaking, not the Lord, and it's in the specific case of an unbelieving spouse abandoning a believing spouse.

The backdrop for the Old Testament laws regarding divorce are a society in which God at least tolerated and regulated polygamy. In fact, the law that tells us that a wife (or concubine) has the right to food, clothes, and sex from her husband is about the rights of a first wife (the context dealing with a wife who had been a slave, likely a concubine in Hebrew culture) after her husband took a second wife. In Jewish law as it was understood, if a man would not provide for the first wife, he still had to give her a certificate for it to be considered legitimate. Judges might do things to compel him if he wouldn't grant the divorce, but he still had to give the certificate.

The man taking a second wife wasn't treated as adultery, legally. Neither would running around with a prostitute have been treated as such. Later, Jesus would point people back to the true meaning of marriage of two becoming one flesh.

During the Reformation, some people in the early days of it allowed for polygamy. I've read that even Luther okayed polygamy in one case. I tend to view Matthew 19 as implicitly indicating that polygamy is wrong. The only difference between polygamy and the adulterous case of a man divorcing his wife Jesus' described is the divorce. Why would mistreating the wife by putting her away be 'adultery'. It's cruel and treachery. Remarriage makes it adultery. If you remove the divorce and just marry two women, why wouldn't that go against one flesh?

Anyway, my point is a lot of Christians will recommend wives to divorce rather than take their husbands back, but I don't see any clear case from scripture that teaches this.

 

[Brownies]

You all don't know how much I appreciate the time you're taking to chat me thru this thing...right now I am in survival mode. It's a place where I can't even formulate a prayer because I don't even know what to ask for. Mentally I am prostrated at the throne of grace and mercy waiting for deliverance. Jesus said he left us a comforter; The Holy Spirit who makes intercessions on our behalf, prayerfully he's pleading my wretched case...

 

[Dan58]

I know this is the eternal burnings question....when is it time to go? How do you throw away 28 years? It's depressing thinking about failing after all this time. I feel like I'be wasted a good portion of my life building up my spouse to where now I feel obligated to continue doing so. There's nothing left for me. When I mention divorce he threatens suicide then proceed to "stage" the attempt. I know it sounds crazy and had I read someone else posting I would find it hard to believe too. Long drama short, I'm searching for a local support group in my area. I find it's a very close knit thing...not like AA. You can those groups 24/7.

Sounds like the burden of marriage has gotten you down. Who made it a burden? There's a big difference between building someone up and becoming an enabler. Sounds like you've created an environment where you've allowed yourself to be manipulated and used as a trampoline? Twenty-two years of that would depress anyone. Everyone needs to be an individual and maintain their identity, but some surrender and loose themselves in marriage. Forget about "image", that's very superficial. And don't yield to threats of suicide, that's manipulation. Without knowing the specifics, only you can undo what you've created... 22 years of doing as you've done has made you depressed, so stop it. Your life can't continue to evolve around the highs and lows of someone else, you've got to find yourself, and in the process, maybe hubby will become a man who can stand on his own two feet. jmo

All this advise is free, and you usually get what you pay for