Hebrews 6:1-6

[Nico07]

Until and unless one makes the discernment between salvation and sanctification this confusion will persist. A person who has been born again can never perish. A wayward child can always be restored. Only those who never received Christ will fall away and be lost.

It as you say is not rocket science to understand that the butterfly cannot go back to being a caterpillar.

The fields are indeed white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I would agree with what you have said. I think even if there is still disagreeance between the two sides, that we still must do it in love and humility. We both may see the same things happening, just may see it from different perspectives. Not at all saying, that all perspectives are right!! Just that a full understanding may not be seen by others. So there is a point where we simply, just say...Be blessed brother/sister and go in peace! Love is definitely key, we need to have love in all things.

Matthew 18 parable about the sheep going astray is helpfull in my understanding of this topic. The sheep clearly goes astray, but it isn't the sheep that returns but Christ that finds and brings back the sheep into the fold. His sheep hear and follow Him, we are called out at different times in our human lives. But that doesn't change the fact, that we were already His sheep before He called us.

Thank you for hearing me out!

 

[kennethcadwell]

And that is exactly why you wont receive it because you teach and promote a self reliance and works based salvation that is dependent upon your own abilities....oblivious to the fact that the bible teaches by the GREEK a current possession of eternal life, justified, sanctified and SEALED by the Holy Spirit of promise.......

Your key words are WE HAVE TO.......works as opposed to faith......even though you blindly deny it.....!

All I am doing is giving what Paul said, if you can not accept the fact that Paul over 20 times said these things that is on you. It is very hard to overlook these things as Paul repeats himself over and over again.

And once again the Greek teaches a mental assurance of having it in hand right now, not a physical possession. You can keep taking off the mental assurance part in the definition if you like, but it does not make it truth. Plus your false definition of justification where you say we are redeemed already when the bible in Paul's words say tell the day of redemption. Many redemption is a future yet occurance, so keep rewriting scripture if you wish as there is a warning on doing that as well in scripture.

Strong's Concordance

pisteuó: ​

​

​

Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;
a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: Matthew 8:13; Matthew 21:22; Mark 5:36; Mark 9:23;Luke 8:50; John 11:40; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 9:28; Mark 11:23; (Hebrews 11:6); τῷ λόγῳ, ᾧ (ὅν) εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, John 4:50


[TABLE="width: 606"]
[TR]
[TD]Transliteration
echō
[/TD]
[TD]Pronunciation
e'-khō (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Part of Speech
verb
[/TD]
[TD]Root Word (Etymology)
Including an alternate form scheo {skheh'-o}, used in certain tenses only), a primary verb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 2:816,286

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   [*=left]to have, i.e. to hold
   
   1. 
      [*=left]to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because God NEVER EVER makes us into robots. You believe God made you into a robot. You believe God has programed you to never ever walk away. How is that in any way shape or form true love that the Father is asking of us? Boiled down to brass tacks you can NOT do anything else but be FORCED to love Him. Is that really the kind of love the Father is seeking from us? Really? The Father is seeking a WILLING HEART not a heart that is programmed to only do what it programmed to do. If that is what God wanted us to do in the beginning He would never have left it to a choice in the garden.

No, He did not make us into robots.

He provided us with a love no human can give us
He provided us with a joy no human can offer
He provided us with a peace no one can offer
He provided us with a rest no human can offer.

Once you experience these things, if you walk away, YOU WILL REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE MISSING, because the WORLD CAN NOT GIVE YOU THESE THINGS. THUS YOU WILL RETURN WILLINGLY AND JOYFULLY, although many times HESITANTLY (because you will think because all you did, your father will not want you back.

If you have NEVER EXPERIENCED these things, You will NOT KNOW what your missing, and NEVER RETURN.

This is what separates a TRUE believer who walked away, and a NON believer who walked away.

again, Something I can ONLY ASSUME you can not comprehend, because the list of things God gave us all, you have never experienced.

 

[notuptome]

Prove it from scripture in context and from the council of God,that a believer CAN NOT walk away,trash,or abandon his faith. Talking points mean nothing if they CAN NOT be proven from from the whole council of God. And show any where in scripture that God makes you a robot unable to do so.

1 Cor 6:19-20 We are redeemed by Christ and He has purchased us we are not our own but His. We do not have the ability to sell ourselves back into sin. We do not own ourselves after we are saved.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Eph 4:30

Romans 8 esp vs 35 what shall separate us from the love of Christ?

We are saved by and kept by grace. We do not nor can not earn or deserve that great gift of Gods love which secures us for eternity.

The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few. Work while it is yet day for the night comes when no man can work.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you think about the matter MEANS NOTHING if it is not based on the whole teaching of scripture. What God states about the matter is the TRUTH,not our feelings nor our thoughts if it DOES NOT LINE UP scripture.

Are you saying you are looking for the stuff that Christ can give you? Is that all you looking for is the stuff?

Back at ya

What you think MEANS NOTHING!

What matters is what the WHOLE of scripture says. What matters is WHAT JESUS SAYS.

You will never convince me that ANY PERSON who has been given MANY THINGS far more valuable than Gold silver and precious stones. And then walks away from that, will not realize what he lost. and how broke he is, and how the world CAN NEVER GIVE HIM NEAR WHAT HE WALKED AWAY FROM. and NEVER want to come back

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will just say

I am APPALLED that SO MANY PEOPLE want to make GOD OUT TO BE THE UNLOVING< UNFORGIVING, UNTRUSTABLE God they want to make him out to be. Especially on this easter weekend.

You people should be ashmaed of yourselves!

 

[dcontroversal]

All I am doing is giving what Paul said, if you can not accept the fact that Paul over 20 times said these things that is on you. It is very hard to overlook these things as Paul repeats himself over and over again.

And once again the Greek teaches a mental assurance of having it in hand right now, not a physical possession. You can keep taking off the mental assurance part in the definition if you like, but it does not make it truth. Plus your false definition of justification where you say we are redeemed already when the bible in Paul's words say tell the day of redemption. Many redemption is a future yet occurance, so keep rewriting scripture if you wish as there is a warning on doing that as well in scripture.

Strong's Concordance

pisteuó: ​

Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;
a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: Matthew 8:13; Matthew 21:22; Mark 5:36; Mark 9:23;Luke 8:50; John 11:40; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 9:28; Mark 11:23; (Hebrews 11:6); τῷ λόγῳ, ᾧ (ὅν) εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, John 4:50


[TABLE="width: 606"]
[TR]
[TD]Transliteration
echō[/TD]
[TD]Pronunciation
e'-khō (Key) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Part of Speech
verb[/TD]
[TD]Root Word (Etymology)
Including an alternate form scheo {skheh'-o}, used in certain tenses only), a primary verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 2:816,286
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   [*=left]to have, i.e. to hold
   1. 
      [*=left]to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yeah to have or HOLD in one's possession.......I HAVE A MOUSE IN MY HAND RIGT NOW and in John 3:16 the verb IS HAVING is used....look, I am not going to argue with you...your view is flawed...the bible teaches the present reality of having eternal spiritual life right NOW......and the body aspect of it will be fully realized at the change/resurrection.....the truth is probably closer to home than you will admit...you each a false gospel...with no power to save...so....keep trusting your abilities and self reliance...I will wait to see who the Lord lets in and whose he casts out....I can tell you...unlike you I will not be arguing my works, self reliance and my assistance in my own salvation.....I will trust Jesus at his word...BELIEVE=eternal life NOW

 

[SarahM777]

1 Cor 6:19-20 We are redeemed by Christ and He has purchased us we are not our own but His. We do not have the ability to sell ourselves back into sin. We do not own ourselves after we are saved.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Eph 4:30

Romans 8 esp vs 35 what shall separate us from the love of Christ?

We are saved by and kept by grace. We do not nor can not earn or deserve that great gift of Gods love which secures us for eternity.

The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few. Work while it is yet day for the night comes when no man can work.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Verses of scriptures OUT OF context,out of the WHOLE COUNCIL of God does NOT prove a doctrine. Doctrine MUST BE FROM THE WHOLE COUNCIL of God and not the bits and pieces that you want to use to prove a point.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenny we have caught you lying in here several times don't pretend that didn't happen. Why we ignore the rest of your statements is because you lie usually in the first few words then twist into something else and hope we will take the bait. Your error and poor biblical comprehension is apparent to all here with eyes and ears.

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

No gray area Kenny our Salvation is secure and context of the whole NT is what we speak of. Btw, this is the same thing i pointed out to newbirth before he got banned. Pay close attention because your banning from CC is coming soon and your condemnation isn't sleeping. Repent!

And Once again you and others have not caught me in many lies.
The lies you are referring to is what you feel contradicts scripture because of a man made false OSAS doctrine that some of you walk in. No matter how many scriptures shown to you all that does not support that doctrine plus clear quotes and studies that show OSAS was not taught in the early church and did not exist tell the 4th century as a widely accepted doctrine shows how much the bible does not support it.
You as others from this doctrine show more hatred, lies, condemning, and unloving behavior towards others. I have tried to stay as calm and be friendly to all of you even though you few constantly spew hate doctrine toward me and others even though you don't admit it. The proof is in the wording rather you see it or not.

My stance before still stands that the reason I made that quote was not because I lied, but because the difference between a willful sinner and one who is in the faith that sins is how often and rather or not they repent/confess of them.

A willful sinner will not repent of what they are doing and continue to live that way, so is the case of the one who departs from the faith to go back to that style of life.

I have shown the clear definition of pisteuo and echo from the Strong's Greek Concordance and neither one shows a current physical possession of ours now, only a mental possession right now.


You have the word grace in your site name, but are showing very little of it toward me.
We are commanded by the Lord to walk in love, as our faith hangs on love, and if you don't believe that go read 1 John chapters 2-4 and he will clarify this for you.......

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yeah to have or HOLD in one's possession.......I HAVE A MOUSE IN MY HAND RIGT NOW and in John 3:16 the verb IS HAVING is used....look, I am not going to argue with you...your view is flawed...the bible teaches the present reality of having eternal spiritual life right NOW......and the body aspect of it will be fully realized at the change/resurrection.....the truth is probably closer to home than you will admit...you each a false gospel...with no power to save...so....keep trusting your abilities and self reliance...I will wait to see who the Lord lets in and whose he casts out....I can tell you...unlike you I will not be arguing my works, self reliance and my assistance in my own salvation.....I will trust Jesus at his word...BELIEVE=eternal life NOW

See what I mean you leave part of it off;

1. 
   [*=left]to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as

 

[dcontroversal]

See what I mean you leave part of it off;

1. 
   [*=left]to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as

Whatever................! The concept is clear....I have a pen in my hand and mentally know I have a pen in my hand....so...WHATEVER!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

And Once again you and others have not caught me in many lies.
The lies you are referring to is what you feel contradicts scripture because of a man made false OSAS doctrine that some of you walk in. No matter how many scriptures shown to you all that does not support that doctrine plus clear quotes and studies that show OSAS was not taught in the early church and did not exist tell the 4th century as a widely accepted doctrine shows how much the bible does not support it.
You as others from this doctrine show more hatred, lies, condemning, and unloving behavior towards others. I have tried to stay as calm and be friendly to all of you even though you few constantly spew hate doctrine toward me and others even though you don't admit it. The proof is in the wording rather you see it or not.

My stance before still stands that the reason I made that quote was not because I lied, but because the difference between a willful sinner and one who is in the faith that sins is how often and rather or not they repent/confess of them.

A willful sinner will not repent of what they are doing and continue to live that way, so is the case of the one who departs from the faith to go back to that style of life.

I have shown the clear definition of pisteuo and echo from the Strong's Greek Concordance and neither one shows a current physical possession of ours now, only a mental possession right now.


You have the word grace in your site name, but are showing very little of it toward me.
We are commanded by the Lord to walk in love, as our faith hangs on love, and if you don't believe that go read 1 John chapters 2-4 and he will clarify this for you.......

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

you will not find me doing evil,

....... your words Kenny, sin is evil Kenny!, if a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth isn't in him.....Where do lies come from Kenny?

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

And Once again you and others have not caught me in many lies.

LOL .......so you admit you have lied here then? just not many times? lol

 

[SarahM777]

No, He did not make us into robots.

He provided us with a love no human can give us
He provided us with a joy no human can offer
He provided us with a peace no one can offer
He provided us with a rest no human can offer.

Once you experience these things, if you walk away, YOU WILL REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE MISSING, because the WORLD CAN NOT GIVE YOU THESE THINGS. THUS YOU WILL RETURN WILLINGLY AND JOYFULLY, although many times HESITANTLY (because you will think because all you did, your father will not want you back.

If you have NEVER EXPERIENCED these things, You will NOT KNOW what your missing, and NEVER RETURN.

This is what separates a TRUE believer who walked away, and a NON believer who walked away.

again, Something I can ONLY ASSUME you can not comprehend, because the list of things God gave us all, you have never experienced.

While the first part of that statement is true,that will not and can NOT change the truth of the scriptures. You're feelings and experiences DO NOT change the truth.

Sorry you do not know me that well. I take God's warnings about departing the faith seriously,they are the warnings of a loving Father to abide in Christ,remain in the faith,and to be able to test that faith to see where I am at to correct my path. They are there so I DON'T walk away.

And again the warnings are about doing damage to,trashing out,throwing away,shipwrecking etc etc our faith. No one will be declared righteous in UNBELIEF. If you go into unbelief you are NOT declared righteous but unrighteous. The warning are MEANINGLESS if it wasn't possible. And the warnings CAN NOT be to unbelievers because they have NO MEANING for unbelievers because they were never His to BEGIN with

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

And Once again you and others have not caught me in many lies.

LOL .......so you admit you have lied here then? just not many times? lol

and we bare false witness? please........ REPENT!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

you will not find me doing evil,

....... your words Kenny, sin is evil Kenny!, if a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth isn't in him.....Where do lies come from Kenny?

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

LOL .......so you admit you have lied here then? just not many times? lol

No I have not lied because anything I have said on here can be found in the word of God, so I am not going to admit to something I did not do..................


Second you keep posting those words in green; Where is the rest of my post, and my following post that answered your question ???


You won't give it because you know I already addressed you and proved what I was saying, instead you would rather keep using just part of what I said to keep building on a lie of yours..........

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Where do lies come from Kenny? is loving someone lying to them or speaking truth?

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[SarahM777]

Back at ya

What you think MEANS NOTHING!

What matters is what the WHOLE of scripture says. What matters is WHAT JESUS SAYS.

You will never convince me that ANY PERSON who has been given MANY THINGS far more valuable than Gold silver and precious stones. And then walks away from that, will not realize what he lost. and how broke he is, and how the world CAN NEVER GIVE HIM NEAR WHAT HE WALKED AWAY FROM. and NEVER want to come back

What about King Saul? He was given the kingdom,he was given the Holy Spirit,he prophsied by the Holy spirit and YET HE FELL into unbelief.

What about Judas? He too was filled with the Holy Spirit was casting demons.

And where does scripture ever say an unbeliever ever receives the Holy Spirit?